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Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
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Posted: 12/20/2012 9:47 AM
Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
Last 26 seasons of NMSU coaches...
Neil McCarthy (12 seasons) 246-124 – [.664 winning %]
[ 5 NCAA Tourney’s = 41% chance of making Dance]
Lou Henson (7 seasons) 136-95 – [.588 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 14% chance of making Dance]
Reggie Theus (2 seasons) 41-23 – [.640 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 50% chance of making Dance]
Marvin Menzies (5 seasons) 102-67 – [.603 winning %]
[ 2 NCAA Tourney’s = 40% chance of making Dance]
I'd say Marvin holds his own in this coaching class.
Ask 80% of Division 1A programs if they would take Marvin Menzies. You would get a resounding "Hell Yes!"
Quit your B!tch!ng!
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Posted: 12/20/2012 9:54 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
+ 1
Not to mention MM has had to spend more of his time than the three other coaches above trying to raise money so he can recruit. The Glass is half full!
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:04 AM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
In his first four years (1986-89) at NMSU Neil McCarthy was 70-54 (.560), was 0-8 versus UTEP (Don Haskins) and 3-5 vs. UNM (Colson/Bliss), with one NIT appearance.
ADDENDUM:
It should also be pointed out that before he took the job at NMSU, McCarthy had been head coach at Weber State for 11 years where he was 205-98.
Last edited 12/20/2012 10:49 AM by KrimsonKrazy
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:22 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
Paint, I think most of us realize that MM is a good coach for our program at this time. It still doesn't negate the fact that after 6 seasons he doesn't have a defining win for the program. Henson had a final four, McCarthy had a Sweet 16, and Theus inherited a 6 win team and got them to the dance in year 2. Menzies is a good WAC coach, but you can't honestly say that you would take him head to head against the others. Henson's fundamentally sound teams would do what Alford's team does to us. This years team wouldn't score 50 points against McCarthy's match up zone. Theus's superior talent would simply outscore us.
The problem with Menzies is that his players don't develop. He brings in athletes that rival McCarthy's teams, but they simply don't get better. There's no denying that. Bandja is the perfect example. I personally think that he has the athleticism to play at Kentucky or Kansas, but no game to go with it. Menzies has had him for 4 full years and he's still as inconsistent as year one.
Last edited 12/20/2012 10:31 AM by 97NMSU
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:23 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!  (1 vote)
nmsupaint wrote:Last 26 seasons of NMSU coaches...
Neil McCarthy (12 seasons) 246-124 – [.664 winning %]
[ 5 NCAA Tourney’s = 41% chance of making Dance]
Lou Henson (7 seasons) 136-95 – [.588 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 14% chance of making Dance]
Reggie Theus (2 seasons) 41-23 – [.640 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 50% chance of making Dance]
Marvin Menzies (5 seasons) 102-67 – [.603 winning %]
[ 2 NCAA Tourney’s = 40% chance of making Dance]
I'd say Marvin holds his own in this coaching class.
Ask 80% of Division 1A programs if they would take Marvin Menzies. You would get a resounding "Hell Yes!"
Quit your B!tch!ng!
If the 80% of Division 1A programs want MM, they can have him. The problem is nobody seems to be trying too hard to take him away. He only had the one interview with CSU that didn't pan out. BTW, we will keep B!thc!ing because it is our constitutional right and the state of Aggie BB and Aggie Nation as a whole is in disarray.
Last edited 12/20/2012 10:24 AM by gtoaggie
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:26 AM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
Can't argue with the facts. My only concern is morale of players that don't see a lot of playing time. And when they do and are playing well i.e. Aronis, they unexplicably get pulled and ride the pine. I hope they don't get the idea that good play will not be rewarded in some way (PT ideally) . If Aronis is a total team player--which I hope he is--then he is not going to question coaching decisions. Put yourself in his shoes is all I'm saying. What would you think if you were on fire like him?
Also one of post game MM's comments about the fact he wasn't going to sub Aronis for Mullins in the waning moments of the game....can't Aronis come in for someone else besides Mullins?
His substitution MO/pattern is puzzling. Keep the hot hand in the game!
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:46 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
97NMSU wrote: Paint, I think most of us realize that MM is a good coach for our program at this time. It still doesn't negate the fact that after 6 seasons he doesn't have a defining win for the program. Henson had a final four, McCarthy had a Sweet 16, and Theus inherited a 6 win team and got them to the dance in year 2. Menzies is a good WAC coach, but you can't honestly say that you would take him head to head against the others. Henson's fundamentally sound teams would do what Alford's team does to us. This years team wouldn't score 50 points against McCarthy's match up zone. Theus's superior talent would simply outscore us.
The problem with Menzies is that his players don't develop. He brings in athletes that rival McCarthy's teams, but they simply don't get better. There's no denying that. Bandja is the perfect example. I personally think that he has the athleticism to play at Kentucky or Kansas, but no game to go with it. Menzies has had him for 4 full years and he's still as inconsistent as year one. I know I have posted this same argument before....
***Saturday March 13, 2010 - NMSU-69 USU-63 Conference Tournament
"USU was on a 17 game winning streak! They won 32 games that season and
were in the Top 25" If that win over USU doesn't qualify as a "defining win", then I'm afraid nothing will.
That Utag team was practically unbeatable. They had won 17 straight, the arena
in Reno was occupied by 90% Utag fans. Marvin's gameplan was absolutely
perfect, NMSU handled them in every facet of the game. I don't care if you like
the guy or not; but GIVE CREDIT, WHERE CREDIT IS DUE |
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:55 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
gtoaggie wrote:
nmsupaint wrote:Last 26 seasons of NMSU coaches...
Neil McCarthy (12 seasons) 246-124 – [.664 winning %]
[ 5 NCAA Tourney’s = 41% chance of making Dance]
Lou Henson (7 seasons) 136-95 – [.588 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 14% chance of making Dance]
Reggie Theus (2 seasons) 41-23 – [.640 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 50% chance of making Dance]
Marvin Menzies (5 seasons) 102-67 – [.603 winning %]
[ 2 NCAA Tourney’s = 40% chance of making Dance]
I'd say Marvin holds his own in this coaching class.
Ask 80% of Division 1A programs if they would take Marvin Menzies. You would get a resounding "Hell Yes!"
Quit your B!tch!ng!
If the 80% of Division 1A programs want MM, they can have him. The problem is nobody seems to be trying too hard to take him away. He only had the one interview with CSU that didn't pan out. BTW, we will keep B!thc!ing because it is our constitutional right and the state of Aggie BB and Aggie Nation as a whole is in disarray. If 26-10 w/ an NCAA Tournament Appearance is "Disarray", I'll take Disarray every day! Ask DeWayne Walker what his definition of "Disarray" is. |
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:56 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
MM did the first one with Reggie's players. Come on now.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:59 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
Paint, I never said I don't like the guy. And fine that was a good win against the blue aggies. The problem is that is a conference opponent. You should EXPECT to win those games. Now reply to my other question. Would you really take MM's head to head against the other coaches?
By the way, beating Tarkanian's national champion UNLV team was a defining win. Not a Utah State team that can't get out of the first round of the tournament. Beating a nationally ranked UNM team last night would have been a defining win. When you can go into a recruits house and say "look what we did", that is a defining win. Somehow beating Utah State might not move a recruit to say "where do I sign"? I guess we just have different expectations for our basketball program.
Last edited 12/20/2012 11:08 AM by 97NMSU
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:06 AM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
NMSU is getting its money's worth with Menzies @ $350,000/year.
UNM, who is paying Alford $1 million, is getting their money's worth with lots of wins and huge crowds.
UTEP, who is paying Tim Floyd $750,000, has not yet gotten their money's worth, but this is only his second year.
If NMSU fans want a big time coach, they'll have to pay, and NMSU fans have not shown an interest in paying.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:09 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
97NMSU wrote: Paint, I never said I don't like the guy. And fine that was a good win against the blue aggies. The problem is that is a conference opponent. You should EXPECT to win those games. Now reply to my other question. Would you really take MM's head to head against the other coaches?
By the way, beating Tarkanian's national champion UNLV team was a defining win. Not a Utah State team that can't get out of the first round of the tournament. I guess we just have different expectations for our basketball program. That win took place over two decades ago (Jan. 8, 1990).
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:12 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
97NMSU wrote: Paint, I never said I don't like the guy. And fine that was a good win against the blue aggies. The problem is that is a conference opponent. You should EXPECT to win those games. Now reply to my other question. Would you really take MM's head to head against the other coaches?
By the way, beating Tarkanian's national champion UNLV team was a defining win. Not a Utah State team that can't get out of the first round of the tournament. I guess we just have different expectations for our basketball program. just a good win?? are you kidding me, there wasn't a person in America that thought NMSU could win that game. Anyhow obviously nothing Marvin does would be worthy. As for your question about "head to head" Here's my response. McCarthy; yes I would take McCarthy in a heartbeat, but that's probably not fair because he is my all time favorite Aggie coach. "A 95 year old Henson" that couldn't recruit worth a damn, I'll take Menzies. Vs. Theus, well that's a toss up. Theus has the Hollywood edge; buts as far as recruiting and coaching they are 50/50. Plus Theus was a flash in the pan yearning to get the hell out of Cruces. |
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:19 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum! (1 vote)
Paint, I mean Marvin, we'll just agree to disagree.
P.S., can you please go recruit a PG.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:19 AM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
What was McCarthy's pay? There was something about Mac's teams that packed the Pan Am. Always got a feeling that we were going to win in those days. I think we can have big crowds in both BB and FB if we win more. Problem with Mac's teams were off court issues. We don't get that with MM (or Walker) coached teams. That's definitely a plus or posititive. I don't think it's one thing/issue that has led to the current apathy we are seeing. There are lot's of factors as has been discussed many times. I do think people around town are seeing the disfunction going on and maybe have been turned off by it. I know (and have said if before on this forum) that for me it's been a lot of little things and a few big things that have me fuming with the current admin. (all levels of admin). I really hate it when alumni and other stake holders are not asked to participate in decision making...at least a little part in the process. Re-branding for example. KrimsonKrazy wrote: NMSU is getting its money's worth with Menzies @ $350,000/year.
UNM, who is paying Alford $1 million, is getting their money's worth with lots of wins and huge crowds.
UTEP, who is paying Tim Floyd $750,000, has not yet gotten their money's worth, but this is only his second year.
If NMSU fans want a big time coach, they'll have to pay, and NMSU fans have not shown an interest in paying. |
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:22 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
Krazy, believe me, I'm fully aware that the UNLV win was a long, long, time ago. I was simply trying to provide an example of what I consider a defining win.
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- NMSUPistolPete
- Veteran Aggie
- Rating: 2.4/5 this site
- 3322 posts this site
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:24 AM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
I get frustrated with Coach Menzies and player's play in certain games all the time. There are always things I wish Menzies would change or the player would improve on. My expectations / criticism is higher on the seniors. And, I had the same frustrations when McCarty, Henson, and Theus coached here also.
However, I also realize looking at the bigger picture, Menzies is doing a good job. NMSU doesn't have a lot of money for recruiting and the WAC has lost a lot of its' prestige with numerous defections over the last few years.
Can NMSU raise again to the same level that had us beat UNLV? Yes, but NMSU needs to find a new basketball conference that allows us recruit to at a level that rivals UNLV and UNM. Right now, Menzies has to recruit on potential rather than true skill. It makes Menzies coaching job more difficult trying to beat real good teams with a bunch of flawed players; needing extensive fundamental coaching.
Last edited 12/20/2012 1:11 PM by NMSUPistolPete
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:40 AM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum! (2 votes)
ElVez wrote: What was McCarthy's pay? There was something about Mac's teams that packed the Pan Am. Always got a feeling that we were going to win in those days. I think we can have big crowds in both BB and FB if we win more. Problem with Mac's teams were off court issues. We don't get that with MM (or Walker) coached teams. That's definitely a plus or posititive.
I don't think it's one thing/issue that has led to the current apathy we are seeing. There are lot's of factors as has been discussed many times. I do think people around town are seeing the disfunction going on and maybe have been turned off by it. I know (and have said if before on this forum) that for me it's been a lot of little things and a few big things that have me fuming with the current admin. (all levels of admin). I really hate it when alumni and other stake holders are not asked to participate in decision making...at least a little part in the process. Re-branding for example. NMSU under McCarthy exploded in the early 90s because of several things: 1. UNLV. UNLV was in the Big West and were the most exciting, dynamic college basketball team in the country. They set the bar and NMSU was able to recruit players who would get a chance to play twice a year against the Runnin' Rebels. 2. ESPN's Big Monday. The Big West was the third game in this new feature and UNLV was ALWAYS on, and when NMSU moved up, they got a lot of TV games also. Recruits want to be on TV. It worked. 3. Junior College Recruits. McCarthy tried going the traditional route with freshmen, but was up against the great, mature athletes at UNLV, Long Beach State, Cal State Fullerton, etc., and he decided to go strictly JC and would make wholesale changes yearly, if he didn't like the players. He felt JC players were already mature and that you could win instantly as opposed to nurturing them (like Menzies is doing). McCarthy's abuse of the system (and others) led to NCAA rules that make it more difficult to bring in JCs and keep them in school. 4. The Match Up Zone. McCarthy was a traditonal coach but with great athletes he implemented the match up zone that was easier to teach and learn. His philosophy was to force 20 turnovers and get 20 offensive rebounds and his team would win. They did. Offensively, McCarthy's teams were not that smooth relying on points off turnovers and put backs. 5. McCarthy, who was making $250,000 (which was good in the 90s), was a very strong personality (he was an ex-boxer) and had tremendous sideline presence (one of the complaints against Menzies). McCarthy did not necessarily believe in positive reinforcment, he used fear and playing time as incentives, and it worked, but by the end of the season the team was many times burnt out. I always felt that the Aggies had a chance to win a close game in the final seconds with McCarthy as the skipper. He was a very good coach. When his team beat UNLV in 1990,it was in his 16th year as a head coach.
Last edited 12/20/2012 12:22 PM by KrimsonKrazy
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Posted: 12/20/2012 12:12 PM
RE: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
 I worked at movie theatres through most of my college years and met McCarthy several times there. He was really cool and took the time to chat with us from time to time. However, I've heard people paint a very different picture of him. He evidently was a real jerk at times. Big Mondays were classic and heady times. You are correct that UNLV and Tark sure helped sell out the Pan Am. I think Jerry enjoyed playing in the Pan Am. The students had fun with him and his players. McCarthy often had standing ovations when he made his way onto the floor for warmups. The place was already rocking during the warmups. |
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- agsalad
- 2nd Team Aggie
- Rating: 2.2/5 this site
- 934 posts this site
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Posted: 12/20/2012 12:35 PM
Re: Just a quick reminder for all of you coaches in this forum!
nmsupaint wrote:Last 26 seasons of NMSU coaches...
Neil McCarthy (12 seasons) 246-124 – [.664 winning %]
[ 5 NCAA Tourney’s = 41% chance of making Dance]
Lou Henson (7 seasons) 136-95 – [.588 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 14% chance of making Dance]
Reggie Theus (2 seasons) 41-23 – [.640 winning %]
[ 1 NCAA Tourney = 50% chance of making Dance]
Marvin Menzies (5 seasons) 102-67 – [.603 winning %]
[ 2 NCAA Tourney’s = 40% chance of making Dance]
I'd say Marvin holds his own in this coaching class.
Ask 80% of Division 1A programs if they would take Marvin Menzies. You would get a resounding "Hell Yes!"
Quit your B!tch!ng!
How about all of you statisticians post some attendance numbers for last 6 years, not pretty. The numbers don't lie, correct? I don't want to hear about all the other "things" kids have to do compared to years past, it didn't phase Reggie in the same environment. Bottom line is the HC has no system that he recruits to, makes horrible game time decisions, does not develop players, nor do I feel like his teams actually get better throughout the season like some suggest. Neil ruled. |
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