VEGAG wrote: We need a Colossal Paradigm shift. A New Culture.
We  MUST remain AGGIES in spirit and name, but our Goals as a community and university must foster and promote that which we hope to achieve. Everyone in the county must become a shareholder.
We must "reflect ourselves" in our top positions (Aggie Alum)Administrative as well as Athletically(when possible).
We must grow from within. We shouldn't try to run with the big dogs by hiring potential from big name University s but head hunt for proven winners regardless of name.
Common Goals for the Common Good
With this simple plan ,we all share in the blame as well as the success.
I know this has been said more than once and I know it is just my opinion.

INSANITY=DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS

AGGIES TRY TO WIN EVERYDAY!!!!!!!

I have mixed feelings on this too.  I sometimes dislike how we lack our own identity and are 3rd or 4th rate behind Texas A&M. However, I think a discussion to change everything currently NMSU would just create a bigger division within our school and alumni. The changing of the mascot was handled poorly in my opinion and has been very difficult to embrace for this Aggie. I don't know of anyone who doesn't think we can do better, even if it is minor changes to make Pistol Pete more intimidating than...well, what he is today.

I think adding a simple 3rd color or changing the 3rd color to black would be an upgrade.  Sorry, but turquoise doesn't do it for me and is difficult to market.  Adding black. Yes. 

Seeing recent posts and administration comments on their departure confirms that there is a problem at NMSU.  I don't know when it happened but we need to begin with finding the "right" president for NMSU.  We aren't going to fit the mold of every other University, especially a major or BCS school. We need to get the school bleeding crimson again, sounds as if those employed at NMSU don't which is really sad.  But I guess if you don't feel your employer backs you then why should you back your employer.  This type of mentality usually ends in losing good staff too.  Sounds like we need to really look at the past, present and future with detail and our eyes wide open.

No offense, Rtist, but IMHO, you are a broken record on this subject.  The name "Aggies" hasn't hurt A&M and they're pretty good in sports.  What is the real reason you hate everything Aggie?  To get the students (including athletes) to know our traditions you have to show pride in them yourself.  As long as someone is saying the name and traditions themselves (and not just the attitude and approach) need to be changed, no one that isn't already an Aggie will think they are worth knowing and following in the first place.  I vehemently oppose changing the moniker.  Especially if you are suggesting a moniker linked to heritage.  "Aggies" does not favor one culture over another, but includes all the students and alumni, as it should. 

Please give it a rest.

Retrofit wrote: No offense, Rtist, but IMHO, you are a broken record on this subject.  The name "Aggies" hasn't hurt A&M and they're pretty good in sports.  What is the real reason you hate everything Aggie?  To get the students (including athletes) to know our traditions you have to show pride in them yourself.  As long as someone is saying the name and traditions themselves (and not just the attitude and approach) need to be changed, no one that isn't already an Aggie will think they are worth knowing and following in the first place.  I vehemently oppose changing the moniker.  Especially if you are suggesting a moniker linked to heritage.  "Aggies" does not favor one culture over another, but includes all the students and alumni, as it should. 

 

Please give it a rest.

1. Fix Athletic Issues (Get out of WAC, found out they don't sponsor Softball anymore etc) Fix Academic Issues (DACC Nursing Program, etc). We all know the list of things under each that need to be fixed, didn't want to get into them.
2. Find new prez (put second because the things above cannot wait on on our slow BOR and search committee to find some one to deal with those issues, they need to be addressed as soon as possible, I fear if we don't NMSU will never recover.)

Listen ... I didn't mean to start an argument.  I’m not a confrontational type of person but I do actually feel strongly about this matter (as do you).  You ask for opinions but then you don’t seem to want to hear them.  "Cosmetic" changes, which I consider name, mascot and color changes to be, are not enough and never will be.  Maybe you're not going back far enough or looking hard enough to find the traditions.  I have a feeling that you and I would also disagree on what are good and what are bad traditions.  We’re probably at least a generation apart if not more.  I just know that I’m proud to be an Aggie. 

Nowadays everyone wants an easy fix and nothing worthwhile is easy.  You have to get to the root of the problem.  Do you really think the City of Las Cruces will do more for the school if its mascot is a Muskrat or its colors are black and white?  No.  You have to work from the inside out.  Start with fixing the financial problems ... where is all the money going?  Could funds be allocated in a better way?  Who is the face of the University?  Are you happy with how they represent?  Fix those things and chances are you can afford to pay good coaches and keep them.  Can you imagine the support if the football team was able to work its way out of the hole it is in and actually become competitive?  What if Walker had been able to come in and do what Davie did for UNM.  The main difference seems to be that Davie already had more good recruits to work with.  If I had the money or the smarts I would try to do it myself, but I don't.

I just know through experience that slapping some new paint on the car will only shine it up for a short time and then it too will start to peel unless you made sure all the rust was removed before the paint was applied.

Just saying ...

Retrofit wrote: Listen ... I didn't mean to start an argument. I’m not a confrontational type of person but I do actually feel strongly about this matter (as do you). You ask for opinions but then you don’t seem to want to hear them. I've yet to hear a single good alternative to my idea, and also yet to hear an argument against my idea other than to say "I'm an Aggie and I don't want to change it," which isn't good enough for me. If not my idea, then give me something else as an alternative.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that, if we don't do something soon, we will risk allowing significant damage to our university. We must do something about this; we cannot afford to ignore it any longer, lest we continue to degenerate.

You may not have meant to start an argument, but it's an argument that we really need to have. You didn't start it; this argument has been going on for the better part of a year now, all because I refuse to let it die. It's that important.

"Cosmetic" changes, which I consider name, mascot and color changes to be, are not enough and never will be. On it's own, it would not be enough. You are right. However, you underestimate the significance that this kind of change would illicit. If our problems are overshadowed by apathy (as I believe them to be), then creating a symbol of change would forcibly get everyone's attention, and excite everyone involved. Consider our discussion right now; my challenge got a very passionate response from you. If this was done within our school and among our alumni, they would have to pay attention (and perhaps also acknowledge the problems that we face today). As KK suggested, even if my idea was eventually defeated, it would have re-energized our alumni and students by then. By having the courage to change our moniker (and traditions), we might have more people begin to  acknowledging our other issues, which would be a victory in of itself.

Maybe you're not going back far enough or looking hard enough to find the traditions. I have a feeling that you and I would also disagree on what are good and what are bad traditions. Then please educate me on the traditions I am missing, as well as those traditions that are positive. By all means, help me (and everyone else) understand our traditions better.

We’re probably at least a generation apart if not more.  I just know that I’m proud to be an Aggie. That is all well and good, but I wonder how many others feel the same way you do. Certainly many folks here do, but I could argue that the folks that congregate here (the true Aggies and not the various interlopers) are the die-hards that would support NMSU no matter what. Such die-hards are almost always a minority in the larger group that is our alumni and student body.

 

Nowadays everyone wants an easy fix and nothing worthwhile is easy. You have to get to the root of the problem. The root of our problem concerns apathy from alumni, students, and arguably administration. If pride cures apathy, then pride has to come from our university and its traditions. How will people feel when they understand that our traditions are copied for the most part? Most fans who pay attention (in other words, us) know that our traditions are not unique or special in any significant way, other than the general attachment to NMSU. That's not enough for me to justify keeping said traditions.

Do you really think the City of Las Cruces will do more for the school if its mascot is a Muskrat or its colors are black and white?  No.  You have to work from the inside out. Which is why any proposed change to our traditions and moniker would have to be done in a procedurally inclusive way that join the students, alumni, administration, and the city of Las Cruces as a whole. We would all have to work together on this in order to make it work. Whether ideas work depend more on execution rather than whether they're good ideas to begin with or not.

Start with fixing the financial problems ... where is all the money going? Could funds be allocated in a better way?  Who is the face of the University?  Are you happy with how they represent? Fix those things and chances are you can afford to pay good coaches and keep them. This isn't just a problem with the athletic department (although it's arguably been the hardest hit out of all of NMSU's programs). Most other programs at NMSU have been struggling concerning accreditation as well. All because of a lack of excitement and competence. Money might fix some of these issues, but not all. Also, where's the money to fix the issues going to come from?

Can you imagine the support if the football team was able to work its way out of the hole it is in and actually become competitive? What if Walker had been able to come in and do what Davie did for UNM. The main difference seems to be that Davie already had more good recruits to work with. If I had the money or the smarts I would try to do it myself, but I don't. After more than 50 years of mediocrity, I don't trust our athletic teams to re-energize our alumni and students, especially the football team (which is the public face of our university, whether we like it or not). We need a real shock to our senses to get everyone's attention.

 

I just know through experience that slapping some new paint on the car will only shine it up for a short time and then it too will start to peel unless you made sure all the rust was removed before the paint was applied. I'm not proposing to slap new paint on the old car; I'm proposing to build a new car from scratch. Changing the moniker would change the attitude of our university, which would affect students, alumni, and administration alike. In a way, apathy overshadows many of the other problems that our university faces, and is arguably the toughest thing to fix. It's a chicken-and-egg type problem (which came first?). It takes a lot to undo the type of apathy that I'm speaking of, which is why a change in moniker is necessary (as it would forcibly change many other issues as well).

I give up!  I am not as articulate as you and will simply agree to disagree.  You speak as though everything must be demolished and started anew.  You seem to have no feeling for history and just want it all swept away.  I'll never understand that and it just makes me sad.  We learn and grow from what has come before.  NMSU is not a “new age” type of university.  Historically, we are a land grant college specializing in agriculture (hence “Aggies”), science and engineering.  Over the years we’ve expanded to include other disciplines and educational avenues.  We should be proud of that history of growing and expanding and our acceptance of other cultures and ideas.

As far as traditions go, they usually change with the times.  Some are discarded along the way and others are added.  They evolve.  Saying that our traditions are copied for the most part is no reason to throw them by the wayside.  Haven’t you heard, there is nothing new under the sun?  Turns out Notre Dame’s football tradition of passing under and patting the sign “play like a champion today” was actually started at Oklahoma.  Bud Wilkinson hung the sign early in his coaching career, maybe as early as 1947, but no later than 1950-1951.  Notre Dame didn’t take it as their own until the late 1980s.  Do the Notre Dame students and fans across America think less of them because they “borrowed it” from the Sooners?

As far as apathy goes, I don’t see how a change in moniker can change that.  Just calling ourselves the “Eager Beavers” isn’t going to get anyone up off their butt to do something.  IMO, the entire nation is suffering an epidemic of apathy and it gets worse every year.  I believe apathy is a social ill and can only be conquered by those willing to work hard and leading by example.  Pride comes from accomplishment and accomplishment comes from hard work.  Nothing will be changed overnight and starting from scratch seems an unnecessary hardship.  Weed out the bad, correct and change what we can and move on … hopefully in a better direction.  It may be two steps forward and one step back until we get it figured out, but eventually it will improve.  Change simply for change’s sake is overrated. 

That’s it for me.  We will never change each other’s minds and argument only for argument’s sake is also highly overrated.

Go Aggies!

rtist wrote:

VEGAG wrote: We need a Colossal Paradigm shift. A New Culture.
We  MUST remain AGGIES in spirit and name, but our Goals as a community and university must foster and promote that which we hope to achieve. Everyone in the county must become a shareholder.
We must "reflect ourselves" in our top positions (Aggie Alum)Administrative as well as Athletically(when possible).
We must grow from within. We shouldn't try to run with the big dogs by hiring potential from big name University s but head hunt for proven winners regardless of name.
Common Goals for the Common Good
With this simple plan ,we all share in the blame as well as the success.
I know this has been said more than once and I know it is just my opinion.

INSANITY=DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS

AGGIES TRY TO WIN EVERYDAY!!!!!!!

The easiest way to create a new (and better) culture is to create a new moniker for the university.

Heck, even when Austin Franklin was interviewed recently, he said he didn't know the fight song. 

Credit to Picoso for the link.

Gotta wonder how many other players don't know our "traditions".

It's high time to start over. Change the moniker so we can change our traditions into something exciting.

newmexag wrote: +1.

Maybe the most important change any of us can make now is to write members of the Board of Regents and express our disgust for the current state of affairs (athletics and academics) and support for more transparency and more accountability.

Contact

New Mexico State University
Chief of Staff Office
MSC 3RCS PO Box 30001
Las Cruces, NM 88003
Phone: 575-646-2356
Fax: 575-646-3574

E-mail: regents@nmsu.edu