realignment?

The winners: Definitely Rutgers. The Scarlet knights get into the best athletic/academic conference in the land with big bucks coming their way thanks to a huge TV contract. Plus Rutgers will be getting bi-annual visits from the likes of Penn State, Ohio State and others going forward. My guess is that they start using Met Life Stadium for some of those games. 

UCONN or Louisville--One of those schools will get into the ACC and out of the Big East. The other one immediately goes into the LOSERS bracket. 

Notre Dame--Gets to make its own rules....No conference for football but ACC with Syracuse, Duke, NC and Pitt for all other sports, especially basketball. Guarantees to play five ACC schools each year on a rotating basis, but keeps Navy, SoCal and Stanford on the schedule too. Ties into major bowl games and the BCS. 

LOSERS--Temple. The owls jumped ship from the MAC to the Big EAST and may have no conference to play in within two years. Because it looks like Boise State  and San Diego State, two new teams coming in, may back out and re-eneter the MWC, which is hoping they both go back. What happens to Temple when this all falls apart?

Navy--There may be no Big East by 2015, but the Middies will be okay. 

The biggest loser is the Big EAst. The league could have signed a 1.1 billion dollar deal with ESPN two years ago....They decided to pass and since then ND, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt and now Rutgers has jumped ship...plus at least one more team is leaving. The BE will be lucky to get $100 million over 10 years now. 

My guess is that the Catholic schools that are left leave and take the Big EAST name with them and form their own all sports (except football) conference.....St. Johns, Providence, Villanova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul,Marquette, plus steal a Fordham, St. Joseph's or St. Bonoaventure to fill out the league....

So where does that leave Army....Well, from my angle, in a little better position than a week ago. Now, there is a good chance that Army will no longer be the only independent left in the land and no cashing in on BCS money. If the BE disappears, there will be a number of other schools, like Houston, Central Fla., South Florida, Navy, and Temple looking for homes......these will be the schools ARmy plays in the future. Still we dont get the big BCS and TV bucks

No mention of Maryland??

I guess it is hard to judge because of the $50 Million buy out.

I am having a hard time seeing how jumping from the ACC to the Big10 is an athletic upgrade.  So I guess that is not the issue/debate.

Football - generous wash
Basketball - ACC
Baseball - ACC
WBB - ACC

why would the big east dissolve? where are these schools supposed to go? is conference usa better?

for Div1AA status. Can't just blame the current Supe, or the last, there is no support for Army football anywhere in the DOA hierarchy. Too few alumni care, too few current cadets care.

plain wrote: for Div1AA status. Can't just blame the current Supe, or the last, there is no support for Army football anywhere in the DOA hierarchy. Too few alumni care, too few current cadets care.

A drop to FCS (old 1AA) would be just a preliminary stop over before dropping to Div 2. We'd be competitive for a few yrs in the FCS, but would soon sink to where Div 2 would be our best alternative.

The ONLY concern I beleive is the survival of the entire sports program on an intercollegiate basis as far as the administration is concerned.
In that context, the football program is most important, not to be so successful as such on its W/L record, but the best entity to continue the all sport concept and that survival thru the monies obtained from the football operation.
Drop to FCS, the entire sports complex would also be dropped to that level. Actually they are in a sense already, being a member of the second level of college competition of the Patriot League.
Being in the Patriot League means nonetheless, that it costs money to be in college sports these days no matter what level you compete in and football provides that avenue to survive. 
It is true that WP would like to have a first rate football team but as long as there is enough money floating out there from football revenue, the success of the results on the field will remain secondary to the concern of providing the cadets ample sporting opportunities to compete on an intercollegiate level.
As a result of this, I don't believe the success of the Army Football team will improve much if at all with this thinking now in mind.

One thing that this realignment has proven is that its all about money.....that is why teams from across the country are dropping age-old rivalries in favor of new leagues.

The only school that has done NOTHING thus far is West Point. We have been sitting on the sidelines while the rest of the college world tries to become or stay relevant. unfortunately, that is not a good thing and we are no longer in a position to negotiate and I am not sure who we would want to negotiate with anyhow.

But the bottom line is that something has to be done to keep us at this level simply because we need the money. Maryland left the ACC because its sports department is BANKRUPT....that will happen to us as well if we do not do something....ticket sales at Michie are way down and soon TV money will go down as well if we dont do something.

Some of you keep saying that we should not join a league because we will not be competitive. I say that if we dont join a league we will have no sports program left in a few years and will be playing at the lowest level of college sports soon. Army/Navy? Forget about it. Soon it will be Army/Coast Guard Academy....I hope we beat the Bears

I should mention that an article in today's NY TIMES points out the popularity of all of the Div 1 football teams......we are near the bottom in terms of national support...so much for having a national following...

Time for Boo and the brass to do something.....just not sure what it is anymore

armyfan wrote:

plain wrote: for Div1AA status. Can't just blame the current Supe, or the last, there is no support for Army football anywhere in the DOA hierarchy. Too few alumni care, too few current cadets care.

A drop to FCS (old 1AA) would be just a preliminary stop over before dropping to Div 2. We'd be competitive for a few yrs in the FCS, but would soon sink to where Div 2 would be our best alternative.

There's no reason to believe that we could not compete successfully at FCS level, and arguably that's the appropriate level for us to compete in the current college football environment that the NCAA has moved to in the past half century.   

I'm not arguing that we should drop to FCS level, and I doubt that we'd do that as long as AF and Navy are competing at FBS level, but if we did, we have an established conference relationship with the Patriot League that would provide a natural FCS level conference home, and it would make games against VMI and the Citadel considerably more meaningul as well.  We compete quite favorably against Patriot League opponents in the sports other than football, and there's no reason to believe that we wouldn't be competitive in Patriot League football as well.  One of the advantages we have is that the ahtletic scholarship limitations that most FCS teams have don't apply to us.  The FCS schools do have one significant advantage that we would not be able to exploit in that the NCAA allows football players to transfer from FBS to FCS level without sitting out a year.  We'd make them start over as plebes:-))

I'm certainly no expert on the financial aspects of college athletics, but it's hard to believe that we would have a problem fielding an FCS level team and supporting our intercollegiate athletic program if schools such as Lafayette and Lehigh can do it.

oldgrad74 wrote: No mention of Maryland??

I guess it is hard to judge because of the $50 Million buy out.

I am having a hard time seeing how jumping from the ACC to the Big10 is an athletic upgrade.  So I guess that is not the issue/debate.

Football - generous wash
Basketball - ACC
Baseball - ACC
WBB - ACC

I played golf with a Maryland grad today and asked what he thought of the move.  He was really pissed about the switch, and argued that Maryland grads in general were unhappy with the decision. 

Rutgers jumping from the Big East to the Big Ten makes considerably more sense than Maryland jumping from the ACC to the Big Ten. 

I would argue that the Big Ten and ACC are on a par in basketball. The Big Ten has dominated in the challenge games the past couple of years, and they both send their fair share to the Sweet Sixteen every year.  Personally, I'm a Duke fan because of Coach K, but I grew up in Michigan and a high school classmate of mine was the team captain at Michigan when they went to the finals of the NCAA against UCLA back in the day. I live in NC now, and basketball is really big down here, but I also lived in Indiana one year, and the Hoosiers are even bigger basketball fans than the folks down here. 

Do you think anyone really cares who has the best conference in baseball?  Southern teams have a natural advantage because their spring season starts earlier, but they don't even field hockey teams for the same reason.

PhatPhelix wrote: why would the big east dissolve? where are these schools supposed to go? is conference usa better?

Football was an afterthought for the Big East to start with, and a significant percentage of the schools in that conference don't have FBS level teams; which is one reason that the larger football schools have been jumping ship.  The Big East could very well continue as a basketball conference just as they were originally, with perhaps an FCS level football program. 

The WAC is disappearing after this year, so it does happen.  Of the original teams that formed the football component of the Big East, Temple is the only team that remains in the conference, and they just returned after being dropped from the Big East for years.  All the other teams came from other conferences and may decide to go back to them now that the Big East no longer enjoys BCS AQ status.

If Rutgers departing triggers an exodus of the football only schools, Navy will have to reconsider as well.

none of that answers the question.

"BYU, Army expected to earn at least $200,000 per year in new playoff era." 
-CBSSports

"The independents receive only $100,000 each per year from the BCS. The increase in the playoff era will be “incremental” according to a highly-placed BCS source. One source inside the BCS meeting room last week said the two schools can expect to double their take to $200,000 when the playoff era begins in two years. That's in contrast to the Pac-12, Big Ten, SEC and Big 12 which will collect $40 million alone from their participation in the Rose and Sugar bowls."


Army football in realignment:  Earning ~$200,000 per year from the new system = loser.

glarson65 wrote: There's no reason to believe that we could not compete successfully at FCS level...

Yeah, there is.  Army in a D-1AA status would not draw the same kind of recruits that it currently draws - the good (not great) athlete that feels they were slighted by many of the other D-1A programs because they were an inch too short or a step too slow.  Those kids - the ones that feel they deserve the chance to play at the D-1A level - are the ones Army will lose and they are the players that make the Army program a better one than most of the D-1AA teams.

So, after a few years in D-1AA, after the kids recruited to play for Army at D-1A either leave or graduate, why would a kid who believes he can play on the D-1A level ever consider Army as an option?  Why would a kid who is a legitimate D-1AA player pick Army - with its requirements - over any other D-1AA program?

You would still get the kid who might be a good football player and is motivated to serve in the Army, but those are probably more the exception than the norm - and when Army goes D-1AA, those kids will look at West Point in the same way they would look at the Citadel, VMI and Norwich.

palidog wrote: 
I should mention that an article in today's NY TIMES points out the popularity of all of the Div 1 football teams......we are near the bottom in terms of national support...so much for having a national following...

Link please?

Why is Navy athletic director, Chet Gladchuk, right on top of this ever-changing situation (including press releases)?  Not a word from Army athletic director, Boo Corrigan.

http://www.capitalgazette.com/...8248aeec45.html

Beat Navy!

shocked, shocked, that Maryland is leaving the ACC and its traditions to join the BigTen. he must be the only person in the country who is shocked.
     He also says seven home games may be too many, not noting that only BC and AF had any appeal to ticket buyers. He and his bosses really don't seem to understand that as we play more low-status teams attendance will certainly decline.There are folks like Rab who just want to see Army with a winning record, no matter the quality of the opposition, but they are in the minority. The future Morgan State game, e.g, will be played before a half-empty Michie, if that.
     And anyone counting on a possible BigEast demise to damage Navy's prospects is kidding  himself. Their AD said when they joined the BigEast they are committed to  upgrading their recruiting. Even if the BE falls apart, which I don't think will happen, Navy is pro-active in the Brave New World and won't be left behind. Army, on the other hand, is being left behind with no plan to deal with the changing situation and is being overtaken by events.

wow....just read the interview the the Navy AD and, i must say, the guy is extremely pro-active and trying to stay on top of the situation. He understands the importance of being in a league, even if the BE implodes. 

Could the two academies be anymore different...Boo is doing nothing (at least on the surface) to sustain the WP football program at FBS....we are losing out on money and prestige and we are going down pretty quickly.....I have been a season ticket holder since i was a kid in the 1970s and my dad had tickets frm the 50s.....I think it is time for me to start looking at Rutgers as an alternative, especially with the schedule they will soon be playing....that is four tickets going bye-bye BOO and I am sure that I am not hte only one.....Michie will be a ghost town in a few years under this guy and the WP leadership

seems the WP brass are intent on driving away fans, from hiring clueless ADs and HCs to ruining            football Saturdays to making the stadium experience unnecessarily difficult. It's easy for me since my alma mater, NYU, ended football c. 1950.
           I can remember the last years of the great Blaik regime which makes the decline of Army football almost unimaginable. Losing to Stony Brook and Ball State? In those days when the P.A. announcer gave the starting lineups, even against good teams,the cadets would roar ''who's he?''with conviction after each opponent's name was intoned. Now bad teams beat us big at Michie. The worst thing is there's no evidence that those with the power to change things give a damn, so the decline will continue with the possibility that Army-Coast Guard will supplant A-N down the roiad.

Our Boo (I still laugh every time I read a newsletter signed "Boo") is way in over his head. Nothing in his job at Duke prepared him to deal with hiring, firing and evaluating coaches or the complicated conference-shuffling that threatens to leave Army out in the cold.

It didn't hurt Boo that his boss at Duke served on Army's AD search committee. I should add that the search committee also consisted of one Kevin Anderson. It also didn't hurt that Boo's father is a highly-regarded former AD and conference commissioner who now works in "executive search" (if you get my drift).

It also didn't hurt him that someone made the decision not even to interview anyone with an affiliation to West Point.

The last two AD hires - suits, both - are proof enough to me that the powers that be don't really understand the importance of the position.

Navy gets it.

Meanwhile, our field hockey team...

Be well.

Boo

GIBSON87 wrote:

glarson65 wrote: There's no reason to believe that we could not compete successfully at FCS level...

Yeah, there is.  Army in a D-1AA status would not draw the same kind of recruits that it currently draws - the good (not great) athlete that feels they were slighted by many of the other D-1A programs because they were an inch too short or a step too slow.  Those kids - the ones that feel they deserve the chance to play at the D-1A level - are the ones Army will lose and they are the players that make the Army program a better one than most of the D-1AA teams.

So, after a few years in D-1AA, after the kids recruited to play for Army at D-1A either leave or graduate, why would a kid who believes he can play on the D-1A level ever consider Army as an option?  Why would a kid who is a legitimate D-1AA player pick Army - with its requirements - over any other D-1AA program?

You would still get the kid who might be a good football player and is motivated to serve in the Army, but those are probably more the exception than the norm - and when Army goes D-1AA, those kids will look at West Point in the same way they would look at the Citadel, VMI and Norwich.

Really? List the players on the Army Football Team that you think would be starters on almost any other team in FBS or any of the top teams in FCS.....

Army is in FBS with what amounts to FCS level talent(players and coaches) and it isn't working out very well. Just how do you think Army would do against a steady diet of the Ga. Southerns and the Appy States of the world, not to mention most of the teams in the CAA or SoCon.....

We've got some guys that can play, but not many and a lot of their better efforts come at emotionally charged times (AF). You can't have a consistently efficient team based on that and we don't. First last and always these players are West Point Cadets and I believe they all have that in them, but that won't get you a positive W/L over a long season....

I don't know what to do to resurrect Army Football but, I do know that this program needs to take a long, hard, honest, look at itself and realize what they are and what they want to be and start painting with bold strokes......