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Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
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Posted: 10/01/2012 7:55 AM
Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Here's my list:
Almost Certain:
Joel Hanrahan
Jason Grilli
Kevin Correia
Chad Qualls
Chris Resop
Hisanori Takahashi
Rod Barajas
Jeff Clement
Possible to Likely:
Jeff Karstens
One of Chase d'Arnaud, Jody Mercer, or Josh Harrison
Jose Tabata |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 8:10 AM
Re: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Chad Qualls? You can't be serious.  |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 8:15 AM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
I have a feeling Resop will be back as long as he's willing to accept an offer outside of arbitration. Otherwise the list is pretty strong.
I think Presley is a lot more likely to be gone than Tabata though
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Posted: 10/01/2012 10:22 AM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
katoy2j wrote: I have a feeling Resop will be back as long as he's willing to accept an offer outside of arbitration. Otherwise the list is pretty strong.
I think Presley is a lot more likely to be gone than Tabata though Again you're consistent, katoy, but next year's starting outfield will presumably have two righthanded hitters in McCutchen and Marte, and one lefthanded hitter in Snider. Surely the fourth outfielder should be a lefthanded hitter to balance things out, and that means Presley. I still say Tabata is the one far more likely to be headed out of town, the more so because of his apparently poor attitude and worse "production". |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 10:31 AM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
williamjpellas wrote:
katoy2j wrote: I have a feeling Resop will be back as long as he's willing to accept an offer outside of arbitration. Otherwise the list is pretty strong.
I think Presley is a lot more likely to be gone than Tabata though
Again you're consistent, katoy, but next year's starting outfield will presumably have two righthanded hitters in McCutchen and Marte, and one lefthanded hitter in Snider. Surely the fourth outfielder should be a lefthanded hitter to balance things out, and that means Presley. I still say Tabata is the one far more likely to be headed out of town, the more so because of his apparently poor attitude and worse "production". I don't care if either comes back. They both stink. |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 10:48 AM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
McCutchen starts everyday or nearly everyday. As long as he doesn't suffer a serious injury he's going to play 155 games next season. He is completely out of the equation.
Marte is likely next on the playing time list. He has the highest raw talent and the most upside. He's going to get everyday starts as well.
Snider is third on the outfield depth chart. He is the only left handed batter. He would likely be used in a platoon with the right handed Tabata.
Presley is not needed because even if you wanted to have another left handed outfielder the team would likely just do what it did this year and play Jones in the outfield on occasion.
As for worse production. Tabata has a .662 OPS and Presley has a .685 OPS so it's pretty identical on offense. On defense however it's night and day. Tabata has been just above average at 0.1 DWAR while Presley has been down right awful at (-1.1) DWAR
Then factor in one player is 24 and the other is 27 it's pretty easy to see who should be kept. Tabata has a lot of upside and the reality is Presley is pretty much maximized what he can do. I can see him getting his average up a little and being capable of starting. However Presley would only be useful if used as a full time CF'er.
I could see Tampa Bay being interested in Presley to replace BJ Upton in centerfield next year. He's still cheap and he would help them out. Something along the lines of Presley and a low level prospect for Wade Davis. The Rays don't have room in the rotation for Davis and he signed a contract extension that would make him Tampa Bay's highest paid reliever. The last 3 years are club options though here is his salary breakdown
2013 - 2.8 million
2014 - 4.8 million
2015 - 7.0 million (team option)
2016 - 8.0 million (team option)
2017 - 10.0 million (team option)
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- Lucci33
- Member
- 2466 posts this site
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Posted: 10/01/2012 11:08 AM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Assuming all those guys in the list leave (nice work, btw), how much will the Bucs have to spend in the offseason to match this year's salary level? Or, in simpler terms, how much can we expect them to spend?
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Posted: 10/01/2012 11:41 AM
Re: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
You forgot Garret Jones via trade. I am hoping we can get Chase younger brother from toronto and upgrade cather. Swap SS.
It comes down to Chase VS jody cause harrison should he is capable of beeing a quality utlity guy who can start 3 day a week.
Presley is a 5th OF at best on a good team maybe we get something for him.
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Posted: 10/01/2012 12:58 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
williamjpellas wrote:
katoy2j wrote: I have a feeling Resop will be back as long as he's willing to accept an offer outside of arbitration. Otherwise the list is pretty strong.
I think Presley is a lot more likely to be gone than Tabata though
Again you're consistent, katoy, but next year's starting outfield will presumably have two righthanded hitters in McCutchen and Marte, and one lefthanded hitter in Snider. Surely the fourth outfielder should be a lefthanded hitter to balance things out, and that means Presley. I still say Tabata is the one far more likely to be headed out of town, the more so because of his apparently poor attitude and worse "production". I'm with Katoy on this one. I used to be a big supporter of Presley, but he's slipped so far from acceptable for his age. While I'm on the edge with Tabata as well but, like Katoy keeps going back to, is still only 24. I just wish we could transpose Presley's heart and desire into Tabata's body. You watch Presley and he just looks the part. Trying, hustling, determination... he shows it, but his talent level isn't quite enought. With Tabata, it's the exact opposite. |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 1:21 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
I'm with Katoy on this one. I used to be a big supporter of Presley, but he's slipped so far from acceptable for his age. While I'm on the edge with Tabata as well but, like Katoy keeps going back to, is still only 24. I just wish we could transpose Presley's heart and desire into Tabata's body. You watch Presley and he just looks the part. Trying, hustling, determination... he shows it, but his talent level isn't quite enought. With Tabata, it's the exact opposite.
I'm not yet convinced that Presley's "talent level isn't quite enough". As far as I'm concerned, he's already shown me more than Tabata has, or likely ever will. While I get katoy's point regarding the fact that Snider (of the 3 likely starting OF's in 2013) is the one most likely to need rest or a platoon partner and that that doesn't work well since both he and Presley bat lefthanded---I'd still rather have Presley than Tabata any day of the week. And that's coming from a guy who really likes the idea of a couple of four-tool throwback OF's coming up and doing well.
Except that Tabata clearly can't run anymore, and the rest of his game has been in freefall for two straight seasons. Presley can still run a little. Presley's overall offensive statistics don't blow Tabata away, but he is definitely the better player as far as I am concerned. I don't understand how he could supposedly start for Tampa Bay, a contender in the toughest division in all of baseball, the AL East, but yet can't even be the fourth outfielder for perpetual dirtbag Pittsburgh?? Please.
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Posted: 10/01/2012 1:28 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Lucci33 wrote: Assuming all those guys in the list leave (nice work, btw), how much will the Bucs have to spend in the offseason to match this year's salary level? Or, in simpler terms, how much can we expect them to spend? 15-20 million with not a lot of holes to fill Here is my projection on what the roster will be Wandy Rodriguez - 8.5 million AJ Burnett - 8 million Clint Barmes - 5.5 million Andrew McCutchen - 4.7 million Garrett Jones - 4.5 million Neil Walker - 2.5 million James McDonald - 2.5 million Jose Tabata - 1.1 million Gaby Sanchez - 1 million Pedro Alvarez - 600 K Travis Snider - 500 K Michael McKenry - 500 K Starling Marte - 500 K Jordy Mercer - 500 K Jeff Locke - 500 K Kyle McPherson - 500 K Bryan Morris - 500 K Justin Wilson - 500 K Tony Watson - 500 K Jared Hughes - 500 K So you need 3 pitchers, 1 catcher and 1 bench player. If you let Karstens go you probably need to bring in at least one veteran pitcher as you don't want to have both Locke and McPherson in the rotation from the get go. The bench player you can probably get from within so he would cost 500 K. One of the bullpen arms as well could come from within as well and would cost 500 K. So the rest of the money will likely go to a starting pitcher, a closer and a catcher. I think they could be open to bringing Karstens back but it would be for a deal that would make it palatable if they had to move him to the bullpen. Say 3-4 million but maybe they entice him by giving him a two year deal with that salary per year. You then have 3-4 million for a closer looking to bounce back. Could be Ryan Madson or Brian Wilson and then that leaves you with 12 million for a catcher. Of course this is assuming the payroll goes to 50-55 million. It could easily go to 60-65 million but I think for that to happen it would be because a trade was made. The team has enough internal pieces that you don't want to be bringing in the mid tier veterans. |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 1:39 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
williamjpellas wrote:
Except that Tabata clearly can't run anymore, and the rest of his game has been in freefall for two straight seasons. Presley can still run a little. Presley's overall offensive statistics don't blow Tabata away, but he is definitely the better player as far as I am concerned. I don't understand how he could supposedly start for Tampa Bay, a contender in the toughest division in all of baseball, the AL East, but yet can't even be the fourth outfielder for perpetual dirtbag Pittsburgh?? Please. Quite simple. In Pittsburgh he has to be a corner outfielder. In Tampa Bay he could play CF which makes up for his offensive deficiency. Clint Barmes can play shortstop on a lot of teams in baseball just because his defense is that good. Clint Barmes could not play first base on a AAA team though because his bat won't translate. Your talent level comes second to the position you play. An average corner outfielder has about a .800 OPS. An average CF'er has about a .740 OPS |
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Posted: 10/01/2012 1:41 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Okay. So it's more an issue of the right fit.
Well, I'd still rather have Presley than Tabata, but maybe we end up with neither one of them. I'll tell you this: if the Rays would give up Wade Davis for Presley and a middling prospect, I'd definitely do that deal.
Last edited 10/01/2012 2:03 PM by williamjpellas
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Posted: 10/01/2012 3:28 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Here's who I want gone... - Tabata- Hate his attitude but he does have talent. Try to get something decent for him, if not, just take anything.
- Hanrahan- Great closer but being a small market club, the Pirates don't need to pay big for a closer. He'll bring a nice return too.
- Barajas- Terrible. I'll be shocked if any team gives him a shot.
- Barmes- What a horrible signing. I know he's under contract for 2013, but I'd rather eat his salary and just let him go.
- Clement- AAAA player. No need to keep him around.
- Jones- Had a great year but he's too inconsistent. If he does go, this will definitely not be popular but it makes no sense to commit a decent salary to a player this inconsistent. He also doesn't really have a position... below avg OF, below avg 1B.
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- Lucci33
- Member
- 2466 posts this site
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Posted: 10/01/2012 4:07 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Thanks Katoy. Good breakdown. I wonder who they'll look at for catcher. Let's just hope he can throw people out...
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Posted: 10/01/2012 4:25 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
I'm actually considering just finding a new team. I have absolutely no idea who that could be. I've been loyal to the Pirates my entire life, but this season is just disgusting... play great, give everyone hope, then completely fall apart. What a ridiculous collapse.
What may be even more ridiculous, is that NO ONE is being held accountable. NH and Hurdle are both coming back! Even Kyle Stark, the idiot who (along with NH) made players go through Navy SEAL training, is expected back. I wish I could go to work, do a horrible job, and have the security of having a job regardless.
I wish one of us were a multi-billionaire so we could give Nutting an offer he couldn't refuse.
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Posted: 10/01/2012 8:58 PM
RE: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
SteelRun put things into perspective. If someone said the Pirates would have a chance to win 80 games before the season started I think most people would say that it was a pretty good season.
This team has a lot going for it. Almost all it's key players are so young that you would expect them to get better just from experience. Lets also remember it's top two prospects will likely be on the team next season. How many wins do you think that is worth? Lets say next year Starling Marte bats .275 with 20 homers. That would likely be a big boost to the offense. I think we've seen this team is very close to turning the corner.
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Posted: 10/02/2012 9:27 AM
Re: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
A bit off topic, but what are the chances the Bucs trade Marte to the Braves for CF in exchange for pitching (both in the rotation and BP)?
Is there some package that would work, or is Marte pretty much considered untouchable? |
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Posted: 10/02/2012 9:45 AM
Re: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Depends on who the pitching is. I doubt it though. How about Alex Pressley? Won't cost as much.
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--- Enscheff wrote:
A bit off topic, but what are the chances the Bucs trade Marte to the Braves for CF in exchange for pitching (both in the rotation and BP)?
Is there some package that would work, or is Marte pretty much considered untouchable?
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Posted: 10/02/2012 9:48 AM
Re: Which Pirates are Playing in their last games as a Pirate?
Frank Coonelly if I had my way. This franchise is at a critical crossroad. Someone that is a baseball guy needs to take the franchise to the next level. The decisions on the manager, GM, scouting and development staffs that need to be made right now should not be left to chance. Connelly is a lawyer not a a baseball professional. He did a good job getting the org in place, but it now needs fine tuned.
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