WeRNotTheirRivals wrote: Aroldis Chapman killed any hopes of Pirate baseball.   The day Zoltan left the building.

It's over Johnny.  It's over. 

What abot next year?    You think McCutcheon will go .330 30+ and 95 RBI's?

Will Neil match his season?  Will Pedro hit 30 HR's?   Will Garrett Jones hit 28 HR's?

Will AJ win 16 and pitch like he has?  

All of this didn't get to .500.

Now what?

Not many teams can say they have as many talented players the Pirates do on offense that are as young as they are.


Huh???

I can only assume you are counting McCutchen and Walker among the "many talented (young) players...on offense".  I don't, because to me they are in the "established young veterans" category.  Young players, to me, are guys like: Holt, Mercer, maybe McKenry and Presley.  That's it.  And that is most certainly NOT a roster full of "talented players on offense". 

 The Pirates are woefully, cryingly, glaringly short of projectable or "plus" hitting prospects in the upper minor leagues.  Only Marte is really a guy who could realistically be expected to become a better than average major league hitter within the next two to three seasons.  Everybody else is two to three seasons from making their debut, let alone becoming established, reliably productive, better than average ballplayers.  The Pirates do have some arms coming, as you mentioned, and that's good, and that will help.  But there is nowhere near enough hitting.  Reinforcements on that front will have to come from outside the organization, at least in the near term.

TBayXXXVII wrote: Also, while other teams may not have "as many" young players, but everyone of them (the team as a hole), have players from 19-25 who are already a lot better than our group... with the exception of McCutchen.

Dead on it, TBay.  This is what I've been shouting from the rooftops for the past couple of seasons.  The minor league system is better, yes, and that's good as far as it goes.  But with the exception of the handful of no-brainer, more or less "can't miss" players---Cole, Taillon, perhaps Alvarez though that remains to be seen---where's the beef?  The Pirates have definitely cornered the market on below average infield utility players.  Holt, Mercer, d'Arnaud, and one or two others.  Players like that are most definitely not difference makers and they are most definitely not going to be cornerstones or even just average regulars.  THIS is what the vaunted farm system and The Great Plan has produced?!?  Beyond Starling Marte, name one---ONE!---Pirates homegrown player who is currently in Triple A or the bigs, who has been produced by the current regime, and who has even has a snowball's chance to become an average or better major league starter as a position player.  Matt Hague?  Please. 

The sad truth is that there's NOBODY, unless Sanchez suddenly figures out how to hit and/or Alex Presley perhaps can revive his career.  But those are both more or less longshots.  Sanchez is looking more like a glove first platoon catcher or number two catcher, and you can use players like that, but he wasn't picked in the first round to be a guy like that.  Presley is more likely a fourth outfielder - Chris Donorfia type.  Nothing wrong with that, but again, players like that don't win you championships except as complimentary role players.  The position player starters simply are nowhere to be found in the upper minors.  They're not there.  The Pirates do not have anything close to an elite farm system.  Period.

BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: Polanco, Hanson, Dickerson, Bell; Not the upper minors, but four good names. I think their approach to building a championship club by targeting big-bodied hard throwers is correct. Results are pending and the success of developing these guys has been mixed, at best. I have to say, after reading Stark's ridiculous email, I have a hard time wishing him success. I want him gone, and I know that's an unfair assessment from a small amount of information, but that really bugged me. Huntington says he won't fire him or Hurdle or Smith, so it's a suicide pact I guess. All or nothing. I just hope if they go, the new guy doesn't abandon or change the philosophy. This is the first group that had a clue, but I am starting to wonder. The system is still good, even if you ignore the 1st round picks, which makes no sense to me, you'd crucify them for missing.

TBayXXXVII wrote: Also, while other teams may not have "as many" young players, but everyone of them (the team as a hole), have players from 19-25 who are already a lot better than our group... with the exception of McCutchen.