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If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it

Posted: 09/02/2014 7:04 PM

If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


Why can't Hurdle. He needed to be managing this series like every game is Game 7 of the World Series. Tonight it was obvious from inning 1 Locke had nothing, yet he keeps him in until we get three runs down to Wainright. Locke was lucky to get out of the first.

Another prime example was yesterday asking Mercer to bunt with Marte on and no one out and Mercer can't get the bunt down but gets a hit to put two on with no one out which is a better situation to bunt the runners over with JHay coming up and he has Snider up swinging away and pops out. In my opinion which means nothing I know, its more likely JHay gets a two run single or more than Snider hits a three run homer which in either scenario gives us the lead. This team is so frustrating to watch this year with all the games they give away, then Hurdle adds to it with insane managing maneuvers. Just some common sense and we could be setting pretty with a 5 game lead in the division right now. I know it is a better scenario than the last 35 years but still very frustrating to give games away like yesterday with Coles 1-2 pitch to Wong. Maddening!!!
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Posted: 09/02/2014 9:08 PM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


I agree.  Crucial series, crucial last few weeks of the season, rosters have expanded & you have all the bullpen depth you could ask for, & Hurdle leaves Locke in way too long.  I live in the Bay Area, & that's where I see Bruce Bochy having it way over Clint Hurdle.  Bochy is much better @ yanking starters early in games when they don't have it, especially when it's crunch time & the team really needs a win.  An example was the Bucs' last game in SF, when the Giants won.  The Giants were struggling, really needed a home win, & Bochy had a quick hook.  Granted, the Giants' bullpen is better than the Bucs', but Bochy knows how to manage a pitching staff & how to run a ballgame.  Hurdle may be a great manager of big leaguers but he's not a great strategist.  The baseball season is a marathon but sometimes a sense of urgency is needed & Hurdle gives some of his players too much rope, & they're hanging the team out to dry.

Oh well.  Another year in which the Cardinals have the Bucs' number when it comes to big games.

Last edited 09/02/2014 9:09 PM by aparsons

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Posted: 09/03/2014 6:23 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


So you want to pull your starter in the first inning?  And then have your bullpen go 8+ innings?  So basically you want to compound the problem and weaken us for multiple games rather than just accept that your starter is having an off day against Wainright?

And then your other example is being down one run in the 8th inning with the tying run on, they tried to bunt him over with the #8 hitter?  And that was some colossal mistake?
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 09/03/2014 6:48 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



GhostOfPBG wrote: So you want to pull your starter in the first inning?  And then have your bullpen go 8+ innings?  So basically you want to compound the problem and weaken us for multiple games rather than just accept that your starter is having an off day against Wainright?

And then your other example is being down one run in the 8th inning with the tying run on, they tried to bunt him over with the #8 hitter?  And that was some colossal mistake?
The rosters are expanded now. You have several arms in the pen that are essentially a 6th starting pitcher. If the starter clearly doesn't have it out of the gate, then yes, it makes sense to give him a quick hook and hope option number 2 fares better. They are down to less than 25 games in the season and they are still chasing. You can't just accept that the starter is having an off day.
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Posted: 09/03/2014 6:49 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



mjdouble wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: So you want to pull your starter in the first inning?  And then have your bullpen go 8+ innings?  So basically you want to compound the problem and weaken us for multiple games rather than just accept that your starter is having an off day against Wainright?

And then your other example is being down one run in the 8th inning with the tying run on, they tried to bunt him over with the #8 hitter?  And that was some colossal mistake?
The rosters are expanded now. You have several arms in the pen that are essentially a 6th starting pitcher. If the starter clearly doesn't have it out of the gate, then yes, it makes sense to give him a quick hook and hope option number 2 fares better. They are down to less than 25 games in the season and they are still chasing. You can't just accept that the starter is having an off day.
So who would you have played?
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 09/03/2014 7:03 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
mjdouble wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: So you want to pull your starter in the first inning?  And then have your bullpen go 8+ innings?  So basically you want to compound the problem and weaken us for multiple games rather than just accept that your starter is having an off day against Wainright?

And then your other example is being down one run in the 8th inning with the tying run on, they tried to bunt him over with the #8 hitter?  And that was some colossal mistake?
The rosters are expanded now. You have several arms in the pen that are essentially a 6th starting pitcher. If the starter clearly doesn't have it out of the gate, then yes, it makes sense to give him a quick hook and hope option number 2 fares better. They are down to less than 25 games in the season and they are still chasing. You can't just accept that the starter is having an off day.
So who would you have played?
Cumpton. Pimentel. It really doesn't matter. Either would be better than Jeff Locke when he clearly doesn't have it and can't find the strike zone. They might not be any better but they couldn't be much worse. The Pirates certainly have more than enough long relievers that they can have an early hook with the starter and not have to worry about burning up the crucial arms in the pen.
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Posted: 09/03/2014 7:06 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


Maybe Casey Sadler comes in and throws 7 innings of shutout ball. noidea Then again, maybe Hurdle brings him in after the 3rd with the game tied.  He then gets shelled for 7 runs and what happens?  The same folks complain that Hurdle is a moron and is costing the team games.  "Why is he using a scrub like Sadler in a tight game against the Cards?"
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 09/03/2014 7:34 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



GhostOfPBG wrote: Maybe Casey Sadler comes in and throws 7 innings of shutout ball. noidea Then again, maybe Hurdle brings him in after the 3rd with the game tied.  He then gets shelled for 7 runs and what happens?  The same folks complain that Hurdle is a moron and is costing the team games.  "Why is he using a scrub like Sadler in a tight game against the Cards?"
And your point is what? That is part of being a manager. You take heat when things don't work out. Even if it is the right decision. And the right decision at this point of the season is not to try and ride it out with a starting pitcher that clearly doesn't have it on a particular night. In May and June that makes sense. Not in September.
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Posted: 09/03/2014 9:28 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


You are right, mj.  Hurdle is the manager and he has to take the heat.  He probably waited a batter or two too long to get him.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 09/03/2014 9:29 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


Yeah being afraid to go to the bullpen early at this point doesn't make any sense with the expanded rosters.

Always easy to nitpick after the fact, but I think he clearly left Locke in too long last night considering his struggles in each inning.
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Posted: 09/03/2014 9:31 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



mjdouble wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: So you want to pull your starter in the first inning?  And then have your bullpen go 8+ innings?  So basically you want to compound the problem and weaken us for multiple games rather than just accept that your starter is having an off day against Wainright?

And then your other example is being down one run in the 8th inning with the tying run on, they tried to bunt him over with the #8 hitter?  And that was some colossal mistake?
The rosters are expanded now. You have several arms in the pen that are essentially a 6th starting pitcher. If the starter clearly doesn't have it out of the gate, then yes, it makes sense to give him a quick hook and hope option number 2 fares better. They are down to less than 25 games in the season and they are still chasing. You can't just accept that the starter is having an off day.

Agreed entirely with mjdouble on this one.  Although in general I agree with what Hurdle is apparently trying to do---that is, go with the old school idea of insisting that your starters go deeper into ballgames---in this situation, with the season coming to a close and very little time remaining in which to make up ground on San Francisco and/or St. Louis, you have to go for the win TODAY, NOW, and figure tomorrow out once there IS a tomorrow.
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Posted: 09/09/2014 7:47 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


Another thread that makes me thankful the fans don't coach the team. rolleyesblah2
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Posted: 09/09/2014 8:26 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 


Your post literally makes zero sense.

Not one person I seen advocated removing Locke from the rotation. The debate was centered around ONE game where Locke clearly struggled from inning 1 to when he was pulled.

Are individual games being debated off limits?

Milfman wrote: Another thread that makes me thankful the fans don't coach the team. rolleyesblah2
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Posted: 09/12/2014 9:37 PM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



panthers2533 wrote:

Your post literally makes zero sense.

Not one person I seen advocated removing Locke from the rotation. The debate was centered around ONE game where Locke clearly struggled from inning 1 to when he was pulled.

Are individual games being debated off limits?

Milfman wrote: Another thread that makes me thankful the fans don't coach the team. rolleyesblah2
Your response literally makes no sense. I made no mention about anyone advocating removing Locke from the rotation. And yet, in your infinite wisdom, you somehow decided to throw that back at me as if it had anything to do with what I said.

I'm sorry I can't use crayon here but I'll try to bring it down to your level. This is one of many knee-jerk reaction threads this site finds all too popular. No thought about 10 minutes down the road, much less the next game, just an emotional outburst to the moment that typically makes no sense.

You know, like your response to me. rolleyesblah2
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Posted: 09/13/2014 3:37 AM

Re: If the common fan, me, can see Locke doesnt have it 



Right and it was about one game, with expsnded rosters, with about 15 pitchers in the Pen including Cumpton, Pimentel, and Gomez who are all long inning guys.

Managers do make bad decisions and leave pitchers in too long sometimes. That is all this thread stated until you can in throwing your insults around like you are some genius and the rest of the posters are overreacters. The discussions in the thread were about one game so again, your post made no sense.

But whatever, the Pirates are winning so it is all good in my eyes.

---------------------------------------------
--- Milfman wrote:


panthers2533 wrote:Your post literally makes zero sense.

Not one person I seen advocated removing Locke from the rotation. The debate was centered around ONE game where Locke clearly struggled from inning 1 to when he was pulled.

Are individual games being debated off limits?

Milfman wrote: Another thread that makes me thankful the fans don't coach the team. rolleyesblah2
Your response literally makes no sense. I made no mention about anyone advocating removing Locke from the rotation. And yet, in your infinite wisdom, you somehow decided to throw that back at me as if it had anything to do with what I said.

I'm sorry I can't use crayon here but I'll try to bring it down to your level. This is one of many knee-jerk reaction threads this site finds all too popular. No thought about 10 minutes down the road, much less the next game, just an emotional outburst to the moment that typically makes no sense.

You know, like your response to me. rolleyesblah2

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