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With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first base...

Posted: 08/25/2014 6:44 AM

With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first base... 


as well as the recent revelation that Tony Sanchez is now getting some time at first base, it made me realize that the Pirates continue to strike out on first round picks.Cole looks  to be a keeper, but he has had an injury prone and disappointing season this year. Taillon had TJS and is not a proven commodity.

Other than McCutchen and Walker, what other first round picks on last 20-25 years have the Pirates hit on?? Have there been any others??
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Posted: 08/25/2014 6:49 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I do think it's safe to say that we can officially call Neal Huntington's first 2 first round picks busts.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/25/2014 7:46 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I don't think you can call Alvarez a "bust". He's had two productive years prior to this one. He's annoying to watch, but in the context of "does he help win baseball games", I don't think you could call him a bust. He's been bad this year though. I also don't think Sanchez is a bust at all. Anybody that's been on this board for 6 or 7 years knows I hated this pick, but he hasn't busted yet. Not even close. I hope he doesn't. I hope like hell he's a HOF'er. He hasn't even gotten a real shot yet. It doesn't look great right now, but time will tell. He may never get a shot in PGH if Martin is resigned, but calling him a bust is premature IMO.
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Posted: 08/25/2014 8:07 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Although it pains me to say it because I really hate his style of "hitting", I have to agree that Alvarez has been better than a bust.  Not much, mind you, but a "bust" is a little harsh.  Definitely a disappointment, and also far, FAR more trouble that he's worth (because of his agent and his defensive meltdown), for sure.   But all in all I would call him "a significant disappointment" and "a below average major leaguer" and "a real pain in the rear end"---though not, evidently, on an interpersonal level, meaning I've never read or heard he was a clubhouse cancer, which is to his credit.  


Bottom line: he is not a guy who will be a major piece in Pittsburgh going forward, and he is a player I would like to see traded as soon as possible.
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Posted: 08/25/2014 4:37 PM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


It may be too early to come to a conclusion that Sanchez and Alvarez are busts, but they are definitely trending that way. Alvarez, given where he was drafted first round, has been a huge disappointment. And, he will likely be gone after next year.

For Sanchez, he is what 26-27 now? What have been his contributions to date? Minimal. Now, they are toying with moving him to first base? He looks like another Moskos type of pick. Never should have been taken that high.
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Posted: 08/25/2014 5:44 PM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I dont think Pedro is a bust, but may never live up to what he was 'expected" to become when drafted.

On a side note he has 3 HR's in two games. If he can go on a tear like he is capable of here late in the season it will really hope the Pirates chances of making the playoffs.
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Posted: 08/26/2014 5:03 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Mentioning Cole and Tailon even in the same sentence/paragraph as being a bust or even saying they are not working out is so far out in left field it is absurd. How can anyone come to a conclusion one way or the other at this point. Cole has been pretty good last year in the 2nd hald and this year when he wasn't on the DL. Taillon hasn't even had a chance to pitch in the majors yet and is a top 30 prospect in baseball.

Alvarez is also not a bust although I will fully agree he has not lived up to the expectations of what he was billed as when drafted.


Sanchez, I will say he is for sure close to being a bust.

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Posted: 08/26/2014 5:28 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I think if you look a the Pirates 1st round picks under NH they have made the correct pick on every player except for Sanchez and maybe McGuire and this past season. If a player becomes a bust then so be it, as long as he was the best player on the board. You cant fault NH for talking the best player even if he fails.

I guess there were some that said Machado was a better choice than JT, so I guess that could be debated.

Also, nothing can be as bad as the 2006 draft when the took Lincoln. And yes as you can remember I HATED Lincoln and wanted a young HS arm named Kershaw. Or the the 2007 money saving disaster in Moskos, which still has to be the worst pick in Pirates history.
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Posted: 08/26/2014 5:39 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


He's a bust because he'll have 2 "somewhat" productive seasons and be off the roster before his contract is up.  He's also a bust because he'll never be a legitimate starting option.  He's a bench player.  Basically your 23rd to 25th guy on the bench.  For a top 5 pick, that's a bust.

To add... he's getting worse.
#fringeprospect

Last edited 08/26/2014 9:41 AM by TBayXXXVII

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Posted: 08/26/2014 6:31 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 



vinnybravo wrote: I think if you look a the Pirates 1st round picks under NH they have made the correct pick on every player except for Sanchez and maybe McGuire and this past season. If a player becomes a bust then so be it, as long as he was the best player on the board. You cant fault NH for talking the best player even if he fails.

I guess there were some that said Machado was a better choice than JT, so I guess that could be debated.

Also, nothing can be as bad as the 2006 draft when the took Lincoln. And yes as you can remember I HATED Lincoln and wanted a young HS arm named Kershaw. Or the the 2007 money saving disaster in Moskos, which still has to be the worst pick in Pirates history.
How was McGuire not the correct pick?  If I remember correctly, getting Meadows and McGuire in that draft was considered a great draft.
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  • kdog341
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Posted: 08/26/2014 9:47 PM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Pedro was the co home run leader last season and played extremely well in the playoffs. He is having a down year and still might hit 25 homers. Bust is a stretch.

To ney even if he is not the everyday catcher next season don't make him a bust. He could take Gaby role and still catch a few also.



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Posted: 08/27/2014 4:51 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I wouldn't argue against Sanchez being a bust. To this point, he has not worked out so he needs to play his way out of a bust category.

Pedro isn't a bust. He hasn't lived up to expectations for sure, but I think bust is way too strong a word.
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Posted: 08/27/2014 7:05 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Anyone who has 2 years of a 2+ WAR and is basically the last man off the bench the rest of his career, is a bust.  Pedro will never be a starter or regular platoon player... or a DH.  The guy can't hit and the guy can't field.  I'm pretty sure that those 2 things are required to be a baseball player.  No, I don't think this is a "phase" or a bad stretch.  I think his career is over.  He'll never be a legit ML player.  Anyone who puts him on their 25-man roster next year is an idiot.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/27/2014 7:37 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


I can't afree with that, TBay. With his power, he'll have a place in the MLB for a long time. It is looking less likely.he will ever be a star, but he will be around and make a ton of money before he is done.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 08/27/2014 7:47 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Oh, you don't have too.  I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone's stance.  I'm simply calling it as I see it.  I think he's officially turned the corner.  Problem is, he went the wrong way.  I think he's already hit his ceiling and it's downhill from here.  I think he'll bounce around here and there over the next couple of seasons and be bounced out by age 30.  Sure, that's the case with a lot of guys.  The thing is, that it always seems that the general consensus of players like that (who were top 5 picks), is that they are a bust.

Typical evening watching the Pirates (2nd inning)...
Martin doubles
Pedro comes up - I go get a drink
(with bases loaded) - Cole comes up and I'm at the edge of my seat.

Why?  Because I know for 100% certainty that Pedro will make an unproductive out, but I don't know that about Cole.

(4th inning)
Walker walks
Martin singles.
Pedro comes up - I take the dogs out
come back in to see Marte get plunked only to see the bases loaded.  SHOCKER!!

Do I need to go to the next inning?  Don't remember if it actually was that next inning or the 6th, but the bottom line is, Alvarez is an automatic out.  He's done.  It's over.  Queue Don Meredith... "turn out the lights, the party's over..."

I never want anyone to get hurt... ever, but I really hope that last night was the last time Pedro ever plays for the Pirates again.  He really is a waste of a roster spot.
#fringeprospect

Last edited 08/27/2014 8:00 AM by TBayXXXVII

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Posted: 08/27/2014 9:41 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 



Wow. You are a sensible poster on every topic but Pedro. He is certainly frustrating, but you are over the top with your hatred of him. I guess he will be coaching high school baseball next year after all.

---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Oh, you don't have too.  I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone's stance.  I'm simply calling it as I see it.  I think he's officially turned the corner.  Problem is, he went the wrong way.  I think he's already hit his ceiling and it's downhill from here.  I think he'll bounce around here and there over the next couple of seasons and be bounced out by age 30.  Sure, that's the case with a lot of guys.  The thing is, that it always seems that the general consensus of players like that (who were top 5 picks), is that they are a bust.

Typical evening watching the Pirates (2nd inning)...
Martin doubles
Pedro comes up - I go get a drink
(with bases loaded) - Cole comes up and I'm at the edge of my seat.

Why?  Because I know for 100% certainty that Pedro will make an unproductive out, but I don't know that about Cole.

(4th inning)
Walker walks
Martin singles.
Pedro comes up - I take the dogs out
come back in to see Marte get plunked only to see the bases loaded.  SHOCKER!!

Do I need to go to the next inning?  Don't remember if it actually was that next inning or the 6th, but the bottom line is, Alvarez is an automatic out.  He's done.  It's over.  Queue Don Meredith... "turn out the lights, the party's over..."

I never want anyone to get hurt... ever, but I really hope that last night was the last time Pedro ever plays for the Pirates again.  He really is a waste of a roster spot.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 08/27/2014 10:11 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 



abitoutside wrote:
Wow. You are a sensible poster on every topic but Pedro. He is certainly frustrating, but you are over the top with your hatred of him. I guess he will be coaching high school baseball next year after all.

---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Oh, you don't have too.  I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone's stance.  I'm simply calling it as I see it.  I think he's officially turned the corner.  Problem is, he went the wrong way.  I think he's already hit his ceiling and it's downhill from here.  I think he'll bounce around here and there over the next couple of seasons and be bounced out by age 30.  Sure, that's the case with a lot of guys.  The thing is, that it always seems that the general consensus of players like that (who were top 5 picks), is that they are a bust.

Typical evening watching the Pirates (2nd inning)...
Martin doubles
Pedro comes up - I go get a drink
(with bases loaded) - Cole comes up and I'm at the edge of my seat.

Why?  Because I know for 100% certainty that Pedro will make an unproductive out, but I don't know that about Cole.

(4th inning)
Walker walks
Martin singles.
Pedro comes up - I take the dogs out
come back in to see Marte get plunked only to see the bases loaded.  SHOCKER!!

Do I need to go to the next inning?  Don't remember if it actually was that next inning or the 6th, but the bottom line is, Alvarez is an automatic out.  He's done.  It's over.  Queue Don Meredith... "turn out the lights, the party's over..."

I never want anyone to get hurt... ever, but I really hope that last night was the last time Pedro ever plays for the Pirates again.  He really is a waste of a roster spot.

---------------------------------------------
Wow!  That's a first! biggrin

I just think the guy is over-rated simply because he can only do 1 thing.  He's legitimately a 1-tool player.  Every other "1-tool" player in the league is considered roster filler.  Or the "25th man"... or a 4-A player.  I'd DFA him.  Just get rid of him.  He's completely useless.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/27/2014 11:38 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 


Letting Pedro play a few games at first seems to have gotten Ike's attention. Two homers n two days, with the second one against Wainwright no less.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 08/27/2014 12:05 PM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 



TBayXXXVII wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Wow. You are a sensible poster on every topic but Pedro. He is certainly frustrating, but you are over the top with your hatred of him. I guess he will be coaching high school baseball next year after all.

---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Oh, you don't have too.  I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone's stance.  I'm simply calling it as I see it.  I think he's officially turned the corner.  Problem is, he went the wrong way.  I think he's already hit his ceiling and it's downhill from here.  I think he'll bounce around here and there over the next couple of seasons and be bounced out by age 30.  Sure, that's the case with a lot of guys.  The thing is, that it always seems that the general consensus of players like that (who were top 5 picks), is that they are a bust.

Typical evening watching the Pirates (2nd inning)...
Martin doubles
Pedro comes up - I go get a drink
(with bases loaded) - Cole comes up and I'm at the edge of my seat.

Why?  Because I know for 100% certainty that Pedro will make an unproductive out, but I don't know that about Cole.

(4th inning)
Walker walks
Martin singles.
Pedro comes up - I take the dogs out
come back in to see Marte get plunked only to see the bases loaded.  SHOCKER!!

Do I need to go to the next inning?  Don't remember if it actually was that next inning or the 6th, but the bottom line is, Alvarez is an automatic out.  He's done.  It's over.  Queue Don Meredith... "turn out the lights, the party's over..."

I never want anyone to get hurt... ever, but I really hope that last night was the last time Pedro ever plays for the Pirates again.  He really is a waste of a roster spot.

---------------------------------------------
Wow!  That's a first! biggrin

I just think the guy is over-rated simply because he can only do 1 thing.  He's legitimately a 1-tool player.  Every other "1-tool" player in the league is considered roster filler.  Or the "25th man"... or a 4-A player.  I'd DFA him.  Just get rid of him.  He's completely useless.
I love it... don't ever change TBay

Pedro will be the Pirates starting 1B next year unless they want to trade him over the winter. Pedro has disappointed to be sure, but I don't see him as a bust... even though he was the 2nd pick in the draft the mere fact that he's been a MLB player for as long as I've lived in Pittsburgh is evidence that he's not a bust... 

A bust is a guy that never makes a difference in the bigs... I think you're standard is too high!
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 08/28/2014 7:03 AM

Re: With Alvarez struggling this year and now moved to first 



fishmong wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
Wow. You are a sensible poster on every topic but Pedro. He is certainly frustrating, but you are over the top with your hatred of him. I guess he will be coaching high school baseball next year after all.

---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Oh, you don't have too.  I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone's stance.  I'm simply calling it as I see it.  I think he's officially turned the corner.  Problem is, he went the wrong way.  I think he's already hit his ceiling and it's downhill from here.  I think he'll bounce around here and there over the next couple of seasons and be bounced out by age 30.  Sure, that's the case with a lot of guys.  The thing is, that it always seems that the general consensus of players like that (who were top 5 picks), is that they are a bust.

Typical evening watching the Pirates (2nd inning)...
Martin doubles
Pedro comes up - I go get a drink
(with bases loaded) - Cole comes up and I'm at the edge of my seat.

Why?  Because I know for 100% certainty that Pedro will make an unproductive out, but I don't know that about Cole.

(4th inning)
Walker walks
Martin singles.
Pedro comes up - I take the dogs out
come back in to see Marte get plunked only to see the bases loaded.  SHOCKER!!

Do I need to go to the next inning?  Don't remember if it actually was that next inning or the 6th, but the bottom line is, Alvarez is an automatic out.  He's done.  It's over.  Queue Don Meredith... "turn out the lights, the party's over..."

I never want anyone to get hurt... ever, but I really hope that last night was the last time Pedro ever plays for the Pirates again.  He really is a waste of a roster spot.

---------------------------------------------
Wow!  That's a first! biggrin

I just think the guy is over-rated simply because he can only do 1 thing.  He's legitimately a 1-tool player.  Every other "1-tool" player in the league is considered roster filler.  Or the "25th man"... or a 4-A player.  I'd DFA him.  Just get rid of him.  He's completely useless.
I love it... don't ever change TBay

Pedro will be the Pirates starting 1B next year unless they want to trade him over the winter. Pedro has disappointed to be sure, but I don't see him as a bust... even though he was the 2nd pick in the draft the mere fact that he's been a MLB player for as long as I've lived in Pittsburgh is evidence that he's not a bust... 

A bust is a guy that never makes a difference in the bigs... I think you're standard is too high!
You very well could be right.  I'm guessing that I have a lot more players with a "bust"  label. biggrin
#fringeprospect
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