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Would you like rooting for...

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Posted: 08/13/2014 5:54 PM

Would you like rooting for... 


The Tigers?  They have been a regular winner, but they are an awful fundamental baseball team and they seem not to care.  They joke around, don't run the bases, kick the ball around and basically look like a high powered Friday night mens beer league softball team.  Watching them would frustrate the hell out of me.  

BTW - With Verlander and Miggy's contracts they could go Philly in a hurry.  They also have Martinez and Sherzer to make decisions on.  I think Sherzer did them a favor by not signing that huge deal.  They got rid of Fielder which was huge, but they still have Kinsler and his 12-15 million.  Old man Illich better keep selling pizzas.
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Posted: 08/13/2014 6:01 PM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


They have a bunch of really good players, but they never have good roster construction and that's why they haven't won bigger over the last few years.  Dombrowski is very good at making trades and getting high end talent to Detroit, but he isn't good at building a roster as is evidences by their yearly problems of being bad defensively and having poor bullpens. 

Those contracts are going to kill the team in the future.  Whoever in the family takes over down the road is probably not going to stand for the massive losses each season.  You'll probably see the Tigers aggressively cutting payroll sooner rather than later.
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Posted: 08/13/2014 7:12 PM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


I like to follow them on MLB.com, and have never had that impression of them. Big hitters, good pitchers, entertaining to watch.

For me, the Dodgers fit your description best.


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--- abitoutside wrote:

The Tigers?  They have been a regular winner, but they are an awful fundamental baseball team and they seem not to care.  They joke around, don't run the bases, kick the ball around and basically look like a high powered Friday night mens beer league softball team.  Watching them would frustrate the hell out of me.  

BTW - With Verlander and Miggy's contracts they could go Philly in a hurry.  They also have Martinez and Sherzer to make decisions on.  I think Sherzer did them a favor by not signing that huge deal.  They got rid of Fielder which was huge, but they still have Kinsler and his 12-15 million.  Old man Illich better keep selling pizzas.

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Posted: 08/14/2014 6:54 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 7:34 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


Miggy Cabrera played the most unauthentic 3B I've ever seen the other night. If it's not hit within 10" of his glove he's got no chance at it. More balls that weren't hit hard leaked through an "MLB" infield then ever should . When you're two best hitters are massive liabilities defensively you are in trouble should a baseball game breakout.
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Posted: 08/14/2014 7:40 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 




?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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Posted: 08/14/2014 9:59 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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I'll go out on a limb and guess that the convos has to do with Pedro and his strikeouts.  Some thoughts his Ks were a problem, others took the "K is just another out and don't matter" approach.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 08/14/2014 10:03 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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I think TBay's saying that putting the ball in play, even when getting out, is more productive than striking out and that "putting the pressure on a defense" is important.

Kinda goes back to the old "an out is an out" debate, regardless of if it's a strikeout, ground out, or pop out.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 08/14/2014 10:38 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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Yup, this was everyone's stance in those debates in regards to strikeouts.  If there is production, who cares.
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:13 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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It's fine if the guy is an overall elite hitter.  Some guys who just strike out a lot who AREN'T elite hitters are no where near as productive.  I think if you polled 1 million people who they'd rather have... Stanton or Alvarez, you'd find that 1 million people would take Stanton.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:17 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


Duh.  Stanton is one of the best hitters in baseball this season.  What does that have to do with anything? lol
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



cferrel3 wrote: Duh.  Stanton is one of the best hitters in baseball this season.  What does that have to do with anything? lol
If I substituted in Trout instead of Alvarez... what's the outcome?  It's a lot different, isn't it?  Trout or Stanton would probably yield a majority towards Trout, but it would probably be something like 60/40 and not 100 to 0.  When you compare elite hitters, the strikeouts aren't a big deal because overall they're productive in other ways, i.e., about a .400 OBP... which what you have when you compare Trout to Stanton.  But, when you compare one of them to a guy like Alvarez, that's when strikeouts are an issue.  Alvarez isn't a .280+ hitter.  He won't walk half as many times as he strikes out.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:30 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 




They're both wrong, IMO. Some guys strikeout a lot and are still highly productive players for a long time. Some strike out a lot and wash out of the league. Some strike out rarely, but are completely punchless. As far as "just putting the ball in play" as being more important than "often striking out" without considering how often the ball is put in play with authority is nonsense. That's an oversimplification IMO.
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--- gr1111 wrote:


BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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I'll go out on a limb and guess that the convos has to do with Pedro and his strikeouts.  Some thoughts his Ks were a problem, others took the "K is just another out and don't matter" approach.

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Last edited 08/14/2014 11:32 AM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:30 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



gr1111 wrote:
BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

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I'll go out on a limb and guess that the convos has to do with Pedro and his strikeouts.  Some thoughts his Ks were a problem, others took the "K is just another out and don't matter" approach.
Ding ding ding... we have a winner!
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:31 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

?? I guess this in regard to way back convos about strikeouts. Obviously, if there's no production...strikeouts are a massive issue. If there is huge production, who cares, and everything in between. Stanton has already struck out 137 times this year. Who cares.
---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:

Just a side note on this, since defense came up... of all the runs that were scored over the last 3 days due to fielding miscues, does anyone know how many of those runs would have been scored had the batter struck out instead of putting the ball into play?  The answer is 0... for anyone who doesn't know.

---------------------------------------------
I think TBay's saying that putting the ball in play, even when getting out, is more productive than striking out and that "putting the pressure on a defense" is important.

Kinda goes back to the old "an out is an out" debate, regardless of if it's a strikeout, ground out, or pop out.
Uh-oh, sorry GR, it's a tie.  biggrin
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:31 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 


Why do you keep bringing up Alvarez?  He had absolutely nothing to do with this thread or the debate about strikeouts?  That is what I keep getting at.  The argument was always if the player was producing strikeouts don't really matter, if they don't they obviously do.
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:34 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



He was still a productive player last year. What are you talking about. Why do you compare him to MVP caliber players?

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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:


cferrel3 wrote: Duh.  Stanton is one of the best hitters in baseball this season.  What does that have to do with anything? lol
If I substituted in Trout instead of Alvarez... what's the outcome?  It's a lot different, isn't it?  Trout or Stanton would probably yield a majority towards Trout, but it would probably be something like 60/40 and not 100 to 0.  When you compare elite hitters, the strikeouts aren't a big deal because overall they're productive in other ways, i.e., about a .400 OBP... which what you have when you compare Trout to Stanton.  But, when you compare one of them to a guy like Alvarez, that's when strikeouts are an issue.  Alvarez isn't a .280+ hitter.  He won't walk half as many times as he strikes out.

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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:41 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



cferrel3 wrote: Why do you keep bringing up Alvarez?  He had absolutely nothing to do with this thread or the debate about strikeouts?  That is what I keep getting at.  The argument was always if the player was producing strikeouts don't really matter, if they don't they obviously do.
In the thread it was brought up about crappy defense.  It's a simple correlation.  If you put the ball into play, there's a chance an error can be made.  If you strike out, there's absolutely no chance what-so-ever that anything positive can happen.  It's the argument that some of us have made with regard to Pedro.  It's the argument that specifically you and Katoy have argued against.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:41 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:
He was still a productive player last year. What are you talking about. Why do you compare him to MVP caliber players?

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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:


cferrel3 wrote: Duh.  Stanton is one of the best hitters in baseball this season.  What does that have to do with anything? lol
If I substituted in Trout instead of Alvarez... what's the outcome?  It's a lot different, isn't it?  Trout or Stanton would probably yield a majority towards Trout, but it would probably be something like 60/40 and not 100 to 0.  When you compare elite hitters, the strikeouts aren't a big deal because overall they're productive in other ways, i.e., about a .400 OBP... which what you have when you compare Trout to Stanton.  But, when you compare one of them to a guy like Alvarez, that's when strikeouts are an issue.  Alvarez isn't a .280+ hitter.  He won't walk half as many times as he strikes out.

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I didn't bring up Stanton... you did.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/14/2014 11:46 AM

Re: Would you like rooting for... 




Seriously? That's just dumb. I never compared him to Alvarez. I didn't even know we were talking about Alvarez.
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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:


BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:
He was still a productive player last year. What are you talking about. Why do you compare him to MVP caliber players?

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--- TBayXXXVII wrote:


cferrel3 wrote: Duh.  Stanton is one of the best hitters in baseball this season.  What does that have to do with anything? lol
If I substituted in Trout instead of Alvarez... what's the outcome?  It's a lot different, isn't it?  Trout or Stanton would probably yield a majority towards Trout, but it would probably be something like 60/40 and not 100 to 0.  When you compare elite hitters, the strikeouts aren't a big deal because overall they're productive in other ways, i.e., about a .400 OBP... which what you have when you compare Trout to Stanton.  But, when you compare one of them to a guy like Alvarez, that's when strikeouts are an issue.  Alvarez isn't a .280+ hitter.  He won't walk half as many times as he strikes out.

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I didn't bring up Stanton... you did.

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