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Today's trades and our assets

Posted: 07/31/2014 3:49 PM

Today's trades and our assets 


After all the hypothetical "Pirate X plus Prospect Y will land us _________", I was wondering this...

Seeing what the A's traded for Lester, what would our comparable players be that could have landed him and should we have made that trade.

Lester and Gomez for Yeonis Cespedes plus comp balance pick would be closest to Marte and a pick... for me, I dont make that trade because we control marte until what, 2021.  If that is what it would have taken to get Lester then I say oh well, we cant get him.

I dont know anything about other teams minor league systems, but did anyone trade their equivalent of say Josh Bell? and should we have traded our Josh Bell to make a trade happen?
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Posted: 07/31/2014 4:10 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
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Posted: 07/31/2014 4:37 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



cferrel3 wrote: I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
I think you are right. No prospects were traded today. Just makes me wonder than, would ONE top 50 prospect then been worth the asking price for someone today?

I think Atlanta and Pittsburgh were the only 2 teams in the playoff hunt that did not make a trade or try improve themselves at the traditional trade deadline.
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Posted: 07/31/2014 4:56 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote: I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
I think you are right. No prospects were traded today. Just makes me wonder than, would ONE top 50 prospect then been worth the asking price for someone today?

I think Atlanta and Pittsburgh were the only 2 teams in the playoff hunt that did not make a trade or try improve themselves at the traditional trade deadline.

It's possible the Pirates offered a top 50 prospect for someone, just that teams wanted MLB guys back because even the guys "selling" wanted to compete next season, and in the Rays case, this season and next season.  The teams that made trades weren't horrible teams, most of those teams didn't really trade anybody or had already traded most of their guys (Cubs).
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Posted: 07/31/2014 5:17 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


It's the 2nd Wild Card combined with the competitive nature of the guys in baseball. Nobody wants to be part of a rebuild even though it's a smart course of action for some teams. They see the Pirates/Indians of last year hosting that WC game and see where they are in the standings and go for it....

I just looked at the standings... Miami is 4.5 games out of a playoff spot!
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 07/31/2014 5:42 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


Heil Selig !!!!!!!
fishmong wrote: It's the 2nd Wild Card combined with the competitive nature of the guys in baseball. Nobody wants to be part of a rebuild even though it's a smart course of action for some teams. They see the Pirates/Indians of last year hosting that WC game and see where they are in the standings and go for it....

I just looked at the standings... Miami is 4.5 games out of a playoff spot!
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Posted: 08/01/2014 6:42 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote: I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
I think you are right. No prospects were traded today. Just makes me wonder than, would ONE top 50 prospect then been worth the asking price for someone today?

I think Atlanta and Pittsburgh were the only 2 teams in the playoff hunt that did not make a trade or try improve themselves at the traditional trade deadline.

It's possible the Pirates offered a top 50 prospect for someone, just that teams wanted MLB guys back because even the guys "selling" wanted to compete next season, and in the Rays case, this season and next season.  The teams that made trades weren't horrible teams, most of those teams didn't really trade anybody or had already traded most of their guys (Cubs).
This is the conclusion I came to after going back and looking at all the trades.  It may have been that the teams sending players away were more interested in getting MLB ready guys back.  It sure looks that way.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 7:44 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



cferrel3 wrote: I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
That is one theory. The other theory is prospects are overvalued and teams felt they are getting a better return by acquiring proven major league talent.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 8:11 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



mjdouble wrote:
cferrel3 wrote: I think only one top 100 prospect was traded all day (someone would have to check me on that though).  Teams just simply don't want to deal their prospects, it was mostly Major League guys swapping.

I think the better equivalent would have been Pedro Alvarez and one of Hanson/Meadows, or one of Ramirez/Jones plus another C-type prospect.
That is one theory. The other theory is prospects are overvalued and teams felt they are getting a better return by acquiring proven major league talent.
I think with the 2nd wild card teams are thinking in the hear and now and not 3-5 years down the line. I think trading prospects will get tougher and tougher unless that prospect is 1-2 years away from making an impact on a team. If this is true, it will hurt teams like the Pirates whos farm system is loaded with players in the A ball level and not not in the AA-AAA level at this point.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:16 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


It's the reverse now actually. Teams do not want to trade prospects because of the value they possess.

Not only do you get that player for 6-7 years on their rookie contract but the growing trend is the only way you will ever be able to extend a player is if you develop him.

Take Polanco for example. The Pirates were willing to give him a long term contract without him ever playing a game and keep him for 10-11 years. Your only chance to do something like that is if you actually own the prospect. Andrew McCutchen gave the Pirates two extra years then he should have.

Look at Marte. The Pirates signed him to an extension where they can keep him for 3 extra years then they should of been able to. In total they will pay him a little more than 50 million for those 10 seasons. To extend a player like David Price this close to free agency would cost you over 25 million a season. In other words David Price is likely to make more in 2016 and 2017 alone than Marte will over a 10 year span.

Teams are hoarding prospects now because of the sheer value of them. You not only pay them the league minimum for the first 4 years but you also have a much better chance of extending them for a far below market extension. A strategy the Pirates have already employed with McCutchen, Tabata and Marte. Even when it doesn't work put with Tabata the investment is so low that you still come out millions and millions ahead. The only way you can take advantage of this kind of strategy though is to actually have the impact prospects in your system to begin with.

The Addison Russell trade was the exception and not the norm.

Sure not every prospect works out that is certainly fair to say but that is why depth is so very important. It's why you shouldn't be okay with just trading guys who are in A ball. When they were all drafted Allie, Cole, Taillon and Heredia were all top pitching prospects. As time goes by guys end up switching roles. Allie fizzled out and Heredia is stagnating in the lower levels. However guys like Glasnow and Kingham take their place.

I do not think this was the right time at all to mortgage the future to get an "ace" The time to do that is when you're in the position that Oakland is in. When you're firmly entrenched in a playoff spot and your main concern is doing damage in the playoffs. The Pirates are not guaranteed a playoff spot if they acquired Jon Lester. All he can do is pitch one in every 5 days. Even if he were to win 70% of all his starts left he will only pitch 10 times for you the rest of the season. They could of easily paid a huge price for Lester and missed the playoffs even when he's on the team. The time to make a move like that is when you're winning the division by 6 games and want that rental for the playoffs. Not when you're just trying to make the playoffs. That's a move the 2012 Angels can do where you trade a bunch of prospects for Zack Greinke for a couple of months and then miss the playoffs anyway. The Angels can cover up that mistake by then going out and signing a player for 25 million a year to make up for that mistake. The Pirates can't do that.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:21 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


Bingo.  Spot on.  Touche.  (round of applause). 

This debate should be over, but it won't be for a couple decades IMO.  The GM's that don't value prospects and prospect depth will slowly dwindle until they are pretty much out of the game.  However, a monkey wrench could be thrown into the scenario if Major League Baseball suddenly changes the structure of the league.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:33 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



katoy2j wrote: It's the reverse now actually. Teams do not want to trade prospects because of the value they possess.

Not only do you get that player for 6-7 years on their rookie contract but the growing trend is the only way you will ever be able to extend a player is if you develop him.

Take Polanco for example. The Pirates were willing to give him a long term contract without him ever playing a game and keep him for 10-11 years. Your only chance to do something like that is if you actually own the prospect. Andrew McCutchen gave the Pirates two extra years then he should have.

Look at Marte. The Pirates signed him to an extension where they can keep him for 3 extra years then they should of been able to. In total they will pay him a little more than 50 million for those 10 seasons. To extend a player like David Price this close to free agency would cost you over 25 million a season. In other words David Price is likely to make more in 2016 and 2017 alone than Marte will over a 10 year span.

Teams are hoarding prospects now because of the sheer value of them. You not only pay them the league minimum for the first 4 years but you also have a much better chance of extending them for a far below market extension. A strategy the Pirates have already employed with McCutchen, Tabata and Marte. Even when it doesn't work put with Tabata the investment is so low that you still come out millions and millions ahead. The only way you can take advantage of this kind of strategy though is to actually have the impact prospects in your system to begin with.

The Addison Russell trade was the exception and not the norm.

Sure not every prospect works out that is certainly fair to say but that is why depth is so very important. It's why you shouldn't be okay with just trading guys who are in A ball. When they were all drafted Allie, Cole, Taillon and Heredia were all top pitching prospects. As time goes by guys end up switching roles. Allie fizzled out and Heredia is stagnating in the lower levels. However guys like Glasnow and Kingham take their place.

I do not think this was the right time at all to mortgage the future to get an "ace" The time to do that is when you're in the position that Oakland is in. When you're firmly entrenched in a playoff spot and your main concern is doing damage in the playoffs. The Pirates are not guaranteed a playoff spot if they acquired Jon Lester. All he can do is pitch one in every 5 days. Even if he were to win 70% of all his starts left he will only pitch 10 times for you the rest of the season. They could of easily paid a huge price for Lester and missed the playoffs even when he's on the team. The time to make a move like that is when you're winning the division by 6 games and want that rental for the playoffs. Not when you're just trying to make the playoffs. That's a move the 2012 Angels can do where you trade a bunch of prospects for Zack Greinke for a couple of months and then miss the playoffs anyway. The Angels can cover up that mistake by then going out and signing a player for 25 million a year to make up for that mistake. The Pirates can't do that.
I agree with this 100% and said so a few days ago. I think the Pirates know they are not "one" pitcher away from make a serious WS run and thus did not go after that player. BUT I also dont think they will ever have that mindset. I think the Pirates are in a consistency, make money and be competitive mode. I think if you gave the Pirates leadership truth serum and ask them the following question, " Would you rather have 10 winning seasons and 6 playoff runs over a 10 year period, but no WS titles or 3 winning seasons and 1 playoff run in which you won a WS?" they would pick the 10 winning season because it would mean more money.

I think the Pirates have done a good job over the last 5-7 years with the direction of the team, but I still have not seen anything to show me they will ever pick winning a title over consistent money flow. I am not saying that wont change, but for me, I have not seen that commitment yet.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:35 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


Loved the guy on the radio this morning that was so mad he called the GM Frank Huntington (Coonelly/Huntington concoction)
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:38 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


The thing I don't like is that all off season we were thrifty and came into the year with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, again.   All you heard around here was "financial flexibility" and "with our low payroll and elite farm club, we can make a move at the deadline that will be much more valuable" and at the end of the day what happened?  We made no moves and we still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.  SO all the excuses about financial flexibility are BS to me.  We are cheap, plain and simple.  There were options available.  There were players to be had but we did nothing.  I guess we are relying on JayHay to carry us into the playoffs and pray that if we get there, we can get hot.  Awesome.
 
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Posted: 08/01/2014 10:43 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



GhostOfPBG wrote: The thing I don't like is that all off season we were thrifty and came into the year with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, again.   All you heard around here was "financial flexibility" and "with our low payroll and elite farm club, we can make a move at the deadline that will be much more valuable" and at the end of the day what happened?  We made no moves and we still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.  SO all the excuses about financial flexibility are BS to me.  We are cheap, plain and simple.  There were options available.  There were players to be had but we did nothing.  I guess we are relying on JayHay to carry us into the playoffs and pray that if we get there, we can get hot.  Awesome.
Lets not forget the Pirates have a ton of money coming off the books after this season as well. If I remember correctly if you add all the raises that players are due and subtract the contracts coming off the books, the Pirates will still have like 18+ million less in payroll for next season. They will still need to sign Martin, but I dont see that happening. I think the 2015 Pirates will have a lower payroll than 2014.

** At no point am I saying I think the Pirates should spend money to spend it. I think they need to be smart and spend it on players that will help the team. I just think they will not make any real investments outside the organization again for next season and will have a lower payroll in 2015.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 11:19 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: It's the reverse now actually. Teams do not want to trade prospects because of the value they possess.

Not only do you get that player for 6-7 years on their rookie contract but the growing trend is the only way you will ever be able to extend a player is if you develop him.

Take Polanco for example. The Pirates were willing to give him a long term contract without him ever playing a game and keep him for 10-11 years. Your only chance to do something like that is if you actually own the prospect. Andrew McCutchen gave the Pirates two extra years then he should have.

Look at Marte. The Pirates signed him to an extension where they can keep him for 3 extra years then they should of been able to. In total they will pay him a little more than 50 million for those 10 seasons. To extend a player like David Price this close to free agency would cost you over 25 million a season. In other words David Price is likely to make more in 2016 and 2017 alone than Marte will over a 10 year span.

Teams are hoarding prospects now because of the sheer value of them. You not only pay them the league minimum for the first 4 years but you also have a much better chance of extending them for a far below market extension. A strategy the Pirates have already employed with McCutchen, Tabata and Marte. Even when it doesn't work put with Tabata the investment is so low that you still come out millions and millions ahead. The only way you can take advantage of this kind of strategy though is to actually have the impact prospects in your system to begin with.

The Addison Russell trade was the exception and not the norm.

Sure not every prospect works out that is certainly fair to say but that is why depth is so very important. It's why you shouldn't be okay with just trading guys who are in A ball. When they were all drafted Allie, Cole, Taillon and Heredia were all top pitching prospects. As time goes by guys end up switching roles. Allie fizzled out and Heredia is stagnating in the lower levels. However guys like Glasnow and Kingham take their place.

I do not think this was the right time at all to mortgage the future to get an "ace" The time to do that is when you're in the position that Oakland is in. When you're firmly entrenched in a playoff spot and your main concern is doing damage in the playoffs. The Pirates are not guaranteed a playoff spot if they acquired Jon Lester. All he can do is pitch one in every 5 days. Even if he were to win 70% of all his starts left he will only pitch 10 times for you the rest of the season. They could of easily paid a huge price for Lester and missed the playoffs even when he's on the team. The time to make a move like that is when you're winning the division by 6 games and want that rental for the playoffs. Not when you're just trying to make the playoffs. That's a move the 2012 Angels can do where you trade a bunch of prospects for Zack Greinke for a couple of months and then miss the playoffs anyway. The Angels can cover up that mistake by then going out and signing a player for 25 million a year to make up for that mistake. The Pirates can't do that.
I agree with this 100% and said so a few days ago. I think the Pirates know they are not "one" pitcher away from make a serious WS run and thus did not go after that player. BUT I also dont think they will ever have that mindset. I think the Pirates are in a consistency, make money and be competitive mode. I think if you gave the Pirates leadership truth serum and ask them the following question, " Would you rather have 10 winning seasons and 6 playoff runs over a 10 year period, but no WS titles or 3 winning seasons and 1 playoff run in which you won a WS?" they would pick the 10 winning season because it would mean more money.

I think the Pirates have done a good job over the last 5-7 years with the direction of the team, but I still have not seen anything to show me they will ever pick winning a title over consistent money flow. I am not saying that wont change, but for me, I have not seen that commitment yet.
I agree with Katoy's overall point as well, but to this last paragraph you put Vinny, I've addressed this back in 2011 and have been doing so every year.  The problem is that Huntington very poorly phrased his stance on the "5-year plan".  That lead people to believe that at this point in time the Pirates would be championship contenders.  The miscommunication is that the "5-year plan" was to get the Pirates to build a minor league system to where they can start generating a pipeline to the majors.  That mission was completed and successful in my opinion.  It's that point where they're at now.

There's still another 5 years to go (from the end of the "5-year plan"), to get them to that next level.  The Pirates are still 2-3 years away from being true championship contenders.  They still need time for Marte, Cole, and Polanco to grow.  They need time to have Glasnow, Kingham, Bell, and Hanson to develop and be on the ML roster.  Back in 2007, when Huntington mentioned the 5-year plan, my mind jumped to where everyone else's should have jumped to and that's 2017, not 2012.  Too many people took Huntington's plan and assumed he meant that the fans needed to wait 5 years to have a championship contender... not to have a respectable system.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 08/01/2014 11:48 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



GhostOfPBG wrote: The thing I don't like is that all off season we were thrifty and came into the year with one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, again.   All you heard around here was "financial flexibility" and "with our low payroll and elite farm club, we can make a move at the deadline that will be much more valuable" and at the end of the day what happened?  We made no moves and we still have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball.  SO all the excuses about financial flexibility are BS to me.  We are cheap, plain and simple.  There were options available.  There were players to be had but we did nothing.  I guess we are relying on JayHay to carry us into the playoffs and pray that if we get there, we can get hot.  Awesome.
They didn't make any moves last year either.  Till the end of August.

The July 31st deadline is for guys that won't get cleared through waivers.

The August 31st deadline is for guys with money on their contract where you don't give up many assets and just assume financial commitments.

Besides that point though you don't mortgage the future to rent an ace for two months when you aren't even in a playoff spot.  Because when you trade a bunch of players for Jon Lester to pitch in the postseason and then don't make the postseason then you just wasted years and years of building.

It's not about being cheap.  It's about understanding value.  The Pirates lost for 20 years and then made the playoffs doing things there way.  That isn't good enough for you.  They are still cheap because they didn't trade all their prospects for help today.  I'm going to be brutally honest with you the Pirates don't care about you as a fan because you don't want the same thing as they do.  Rather than being happy that the team is in contention regularly now you only want them to win for today and whatever happens down the road you won't care.  Then in 5 years when the Pirates stink again because they traded away their prospects you will be complaining again.

The Pirates want to build a long term competitive franchise.  Meaning they will be contending for the long haul.  If they see a fair value they will be willing to make a move.  A strategy like that is sure to anger fans but it's the right way to go because as an organization you want sustainability.

Just because the Pirates are in the playoff hunt doesn't mean they should move all in.  You move all in when you're legitimate World Series contenders.  Oakland made bold moves this year but they are legit contenders.  They have the best run differential in baseball, lead baseball in runs scored and are amongst the leaders in runs allowed.  Their chance to win is right now.  The Pirates on the other hand have a 0 run differential.  Adding Lester would of helped but are the Pirates immediately favourites acquiring him?  Hell no they don't even guarantee a playoff spot.  If they had Lester they would still be heavy underdogs going up against a rotation led by Kershaw, Greinke and Ryu.

The Pirates still have a lot of work to do.  That's why I was so against signing guys like James Loney who are short sighted answers.  They take up valuable resources but don't make your team significantly better.  For the Pirates that means waiting for their best team to get here.  So that's a team that includes Taillon, Glasnow and Bell most likely.  To go along with Marte, Polanco and McCutchen.  So that might not be till 2015 or 2016 till they decide it's right to make the all in move.  Otherwise they will continue to play really competitive baseball and battle for a playoff spot.  It's hard to complain about an 85 win team.  Especially when they played as badly as they did the first two months of the year.  Like I said I think you need 90 wins to the playoffs and there is no player in baseball that can be win 5 wins to get you from 85 to 90 in a 50 game stretch.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 11:58 AM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 



katoy2j wrote: It's the reverse now actually. Teams do not want to trade prospects because of the value they possess.

Not only do you get that player for 6-7 years on their rookie contract but the growing trend is the only way you will ever be able to extend a player is if you develop him.

Take Polanco for example. The Pirates were willing to give him a long term contract without him ever playing a game and keep him for 10-11 years. Your only chance to do something like that is if you actually own the prospect. Andrew McCutchen gave the Pirates two extra years then he should have.

Look at Marte. The Pirates signed him to an extension where they can keep him for 3 extra years then they should of been able to. In total they will pay him a little more than 50 million for those 10 seasons. To extend a player like David Price this close to free agency would cost you over 25 million a season. In other words David Price is likely to make more in 2016 and 2017 alone than Marte will over a 10 year span.

Teams are hoarding prospects now because of the sheer value of them. You not only pay them the league minimum for the first 4 years but you also have a much better chance of extending them for a far below market extension. A strategy the Pirates have already employed with McCutchen, Tabata and Marte. Even when it doesn't work put with Tabata the investment is so low that you still come out millions and millions ahead. The only way you can take advantage of this kind of strategy though is to actually have the impact prospects in your system to begin with.

The Addison Russell trade was the exception and not the norm.

Sure not every prospect works out that is certainly fair to say but that is why depth is so very important. It's why you shouldn't be okay with just trading guys who are in A ball. When they were all drafted Allie, Cole, Taillon and Heredia were all top pitching prospects. As time goes by guys end up switching roles. Allie fizzled out and Heredia is stagnating in the lower levels. However guys like Glasnow and Kingham take their place.

I do not think this was the right time at all to mortgage the future to get an "ace" The time to do that is when you're in the position that Oakland is in. When you're firmly entrenched in a playoff spot and your main concern is doing damage in the playoffs. The Pirates are not guaranteed a playoff spot if they acquired Jon Lester. All he can do is pitch one in every 5 days. Even if he were to win 70% of all his starts left he will only pitch 10 times for you the rest of the season. They could of easily paid a huge price for Lester and missed the playoffs even when he's on the team. The time to make a move like that is when you're winning the division by 6 games and want that rental for the playoffs. Not when you're just trying to make the playoffs. That's a move the 2012 Angels can do where you trade a bunch of prospects for Zack Greinke for a couple of months and then miss the playoffs anyway. The Angels can cover up that mistake by then going out and signing a player for 25 million a year to make up for that mistake. The Pirates can't do that.
Yes, prospects provide great costs savings and controllability. But that doesn't mean they aren't overvalued. Every team always thinks more highly of their own prospects than the rest of the industry. The truth is there are really only a handful of truly impact prospects. But everyone believes their crop of prospects contain a bunch of those impact players. So prospect demand, at least when it comes to trades is lessening. If prospects were in such great demand the Pirates should have been able to capitalize. They had more poker chips at the table than anyone. No one wanted to play with them.
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Posted: 08/01/2014 12:04 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


The Pirates didn't have to go all in though.  If they trade for Price and then sign him to a big contract, is that crippling the farm system?  Heck, assuming they let Russel Martin walk at the end of the year, our payroll would be about the same as it is right now even with Price!  So the payroll isn't ballooned and the farm system is still plenty deep.  And no, I'm not buying this talk about our offer being better than Detroit's or that Price doesn't want to be in Pittsburgh.  Price wanted to stay with the Rays more than anything and they traded him anyway so don't tell me they let him pick where he wanted to go and took a lesser deal because of it.  And especially don't cite the source as "reading between the lines on what so-and-so said".  Not trying to sound argumentative here.  I just see things way differently and so far the tiny payroll and lack of trades supports it in my opinion.  The only time we seem to bring in a guy is basically when another team is just giving someone away at the end of the season.  I liked Dilson Herrera and I know Robbie Grossman had a fan or two around here, but this front office is far too conservative for my liking.  I do think they've done a tremendous job of drafting and scouting foreign players though.
 
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Posted: 08/01/2014 12:17 PM

Re: Today's trades and our assets 


Katoy still sees it taking 90 wins to make the playoffs this year; but Fangraphs sees it only taking 86 wins to win the NL Central.  

Brewers 86-76
Cardinals 86-76
Pirates 85-77

I think Jon Lester would have been a big addition to help the Pirates win the division.  I don't think the Brewers or the Cardinals have teams that will win 90 games.  Both those teams have serious flaws.  The Cardinals are still having trouble scoring runs, the Brewers have to worry about their pitching regressing.  The Brewers' pitching is something that Katoy kept pointing to when he was trying to discredit the Brewers hot start.  What is the difference now?

Katoy talked a lot about David Price affecting the NL pennant race, and now he's been traded within the AL.  Did the Cardinals really improve that much getting Masterson and Lackey, but losing Joe Kelly?  I like Masterson, but his velocity is down and he is historically inconsistent.  The Cardinals are a better team after the deadline, in my opinion, but not enough of a run away favorite that adding a guy like Lester wouldn't have made a huge impact in chasing them down.

As far as the value of prospects, I have talked about this repeatedly.  We know where the lines are; people's opinions aren't going to change.  Here's what we know as a fact, though.  The Pirates can build as much prospect depth as they want, but there is a limited amount of time that they can win under Cutch's contract.  Sure, somebody could step up as a superstar like McCutchen did, and if that happens then the window is extended.  However, if the prospects end up as just good players, not elite players (which would be a fantastic result considering the failure rate of prospects), it's going to be hard to compete with teams for those World Series titles, which is the ultimate goal.

McCutchen's contract is up in four years from now.  Tick.  Tock.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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