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The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck....

Posted: 07/13/2014 3:37 PM

The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


with the exception of Morton, Melancon, and Watson, the rest of the staff has been mediocre to awful - and that includes Cole. Even Volquez, who has been very good for the past 4-5 starts, has also had some very bad outings. He just now got his ERA down to the 3.50 range.

We have anywhere from 4-5 pitchers who are not deserving of pitching on this staff - and are hurting the team more than helping it. Liriano, Wilson, Frieri, Pimentel, Gomez, and you can include Worley in that group now that he has come back to Earth. each performance. 

The problem is we're pretty much married to most of these guys - sink or swim. I would replace Frieri with Mazzaro now - and I would also consider bringing up Oliver, to replace Worley or Pimentel - regardless if they options or not. 

Because of the condition of the pitching staff in general, as well as the abysmal first base situation, this team is in very flawed. Polanco is struggling, and we don't have competent platoon partner for him. 

Very disappointing road trip through St Louis and Cincy - 2-5, when we should have gone 4-3 or 5-2.
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Posted: 07/13/2014 7:01 PM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


The Pirates are 12th in ERA (out of 30 teams), just ahead of the first place Milwaukee Brewers. 

The problem is you only watch the Pirates and only see their flaws. Other teams have them, too. The pitching is far from perfect and some guys need to improve, but once again I'm glad you're not running this team.
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Posted: 07/13/2014 7:26 PM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


Yeah, don't get me wrong, the Pirates could use a late-inning reliever (preferably a lefty), but the pitching isn't a train wreck.  Just needs a little help in the pen.  Gomez has been very good again this season so the complaints about him are ridiculous, and Wilson still has the big arm and great strikeout numbers, I think he will be fine as well.  Just needs to harness the control a little.  And apparently starting pitchers with ERA's in the mid-3's (and not even smoke and mirrors) aren't any good as well.

Also, and I'm going to rant slightly, Pimentel is fine if he would be used properly.  The Pirates already have a long-reliever/swingman, and a pretty good one at that. in Gomez.  They don't need two.  The Pirates are only using Pimentel in the same role so him and Gomez go days without pitching, and to me this is a waste.  Pimentel should be moved into a one/two inning role and pitch in higher leverage situations.  When used in short stints he throws 97/98 mph with a hard slider that approaches 90 mph.  You can't teach that.  He isn't going to be counted on to start this season (that is for next year), so he doesn't need to be stretched out.  Shorten him up and allow him to let it fly and blow people away.  Rant over.

Last edited 07/13/2014 7:28 PM by cferrel3

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Posted: 07/14/2014 3:40 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 



Milfman wrote: The Pirates are 12th in ERA (out of 30 teams), just ahead of the first place Milwaukee Brewers. 

The problem is you only watch the Pirates and only see their flaws. Other teams have them, too. The pitching is far from perfect and some guys need to improve, but once again I'm glad you're not running this team.


Correct.  Too much whining.  Despite injuries and some sub-par first half performances, we're within 3.5 games of the division lead, with tons of opportunities in the second half.  We may or may not get it done, but we've got a shot.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 07/14/2014 4:47 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 



WWJDLion wrote: with the exception of Morton, Melancon, and Watson, the rest of the staff has been mediocre to awful - and that includes Cole. Even Volquez, who has been very good for the past 4-5 starts, has also had some very bad outings. He just now got his ERA down to the 3.50 range.

We have anywhere from 4-5 pitchers who are not deserving of pitching on this staff - and are hurting the team more than helping it. Liriano, Wilson, Frieri, Pimentel, Gomez, and you can include Worley in that group now that he has come back to Earth. each performance. 

The problem is we're pretty much married to most of these guys - sink or swim. I would replace Frieri with Mazzaro now - and I would also consider bringing up Oliver, to replace Worley or Pimentel - regardless if they options or not. 

Because of the condition of the pitching staff in general, as well as the abysmal first base situation, this team is in very flawed. Polanco is struggling, and we don't have competent platoon partner for him. 

Very disappointing road trip through St Louis and Cincy - 2-5, when we should have gone 4-3 or 5-2.
Not to start an argument with you... but remember when I mentioned you fly off the handle too easily and are too emotional about specific ABs/Games and even series....

There are definitely concerns about the Pitching staff but I think you are way over exaggerating them.

Liriano right now is just horrible. There is no getting around that. He was bad before his DL trip and his start yesterday was just awful. He can't throw strikes, gives up too many homers and is way too inconsistent. He is a major concern in the rotation.

I think Morton, Locke, Volquez, Cole(if healthy) are more than fine as the SP's. Admittedly, Cole is a huge question mark because 2 DL stints is never a good thing so I have my doubts he will pitch again this season and if he does how effective he will be. Liriano is the #5 at best and is probably not even that at this point.

Last edited 07/14/2014 5:08 AM by panthers2533

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Posted: 07/14/2014 6:10 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


I think the staff it good, just not great. They still need one more very good starter to be a serious contender.
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Posted: 07/14/2014 11:33 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


"The Pirates are 12th in ERA (out of 30 teams),"

That is a little deceiving don't you think?? Comparing the Pirates team ERA to any AL team is completely irrelevant, due to DH rule.

Within the NL, the Pirates are 9th out of 15 in team ERA, and they are a lot closer to the teams immediately behind them than those immediately in front of them. So, it is more likely they may fall even further back in the pack, then move up.

So, when you think of the following:

(1) Our #1 SP (Cole) is on the DL and had a near 4.00 ERA before going on DL.
(2) Our #2 (Liriano) is pitching terribly - with little control or effectiveness.
(3 Morton, Locke, and Volquez have all pitched well of late, but none have a track record of season long strong performances. So, none are givens to continue their recent runs.
(4) We have 3-4 relief pitchers that are very suspect, given their current performance and cannot be trusted in close games - Frieri, Worley, Wilson, and Pimentel. And another, Gomez, is mediocre at best.
(5) Because of bullpen collapses, we just lost multiple games within the division.

I would call that pretty much a train wreck.


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Posted: 07/14/2014 11:35 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 


Losing 5 of 7 within the division, especially in the manner of how we lost most of these games, is reason for concern and alarm. They all had to do with bullpen collapses and/or poor starting pitching.
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Posted: 07/14/2014 3:37 PM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 



WWJDLion wrote: Losing 5 of 7 within the division, especially in the manner of how we lost most of these games, is reason for concern and alarm. They all had to do with bullpen collapses and/or poor starting pitching.
True, and overall the Pirates have been horrid vs team with winning records and vs teams in the division. However, other teams have has some devastating injuries and the Pirates still have a chance if the right moves are made.

My big concern is August. The Pirates have been horrid in August the last few years and if they do it again this year they are done.
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Posted: 07/15/2014 8:51 AM

Re: The Pirates pitching staff is a train wreck.... 



vinnybravo wrote:
WWJDLion wrote: Losing 5 of 7 within the division, especially in the manner of how we lost most of these games, is reason for concern and alarm. They all had to do with bullpen collapses and/or poor starting pitching.
True, and overall the Pirates have been horrid vs team with winning records and vs teams in the division. However, other teams have has some devastating injuries and the Pirates still have a chance if the right moves are made.

My big concern is August. The Pirates have been horrid in August the last few years and if they do it again this year they are done.


I think WWJD is closer to the truth here, though vinny is also correct to state that "....the Pirates still have a chance if the right moves are made". 


Cole is a huge concern, obviously, but at least there is a plain and clear explanation for his less than expected performance this season: he is hurt.  Liriano is now, supposedly, healthy, but he has been terrible for most of the first half whether hurt or not.  With Wandy Rodriguez' flameout, that's three fifths of the starting rotation in shambles.  Not good. 


On the other hand, Jeff Locke and Brandon Cumpton and Vance Worley have all performed better than could reasonably have been expected (though Worley may be starting to show some cracks in the armor) and have kept the team afloat. 


I don't see how the Pirates can be expected to contend or even remain on the fringes of contention unless another arm steps up to fill the vacuum created by the loss and / or ineffectiveness of Cole and Liriano.  I do not expect the front office to mortgage anything down on the farm to bring in a veteran starting pitcher.  So any improvement will have to come from within. 


Best case: Cole comes back strong and can take a regular turn for the remainder of the season, and Liriano is, if not what he was in 2013, at least no longer terrible.  I hope the Pirates get him out of the rotation if he doesn't turn it around quickly; he doesn't have to be sent on his way, necessarily, but sent to the bullpen, definitely.  That would mean Cumpton for the remainder of the season and that's fine by me if Liriano's struggles continue.
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