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can't believe what Hurdle did tonight.

  • mbark74
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Posted: 07/12/2014 7:03 PM

can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Normally it would be no big deal. But to PH Hague for Snider when Snider has three hits and is having a good game is stupid. Especially using Hague, then switches to Davis when a Right hander is brought in when Davis I not a good pinch hitter is just dumb. Some of the moves he is making starting about 6 games ago makes me wonder if Hurdle has his head in the game. banghead
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Posted: 07/12/2014 7:05 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Easy fella. You are bordering on blasphemy.


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--- mbark74 wrote:

Normally it would be no big deal. But to PH Hague for Snider when Snider has three hits and is having a good game is stupid. Especially using Hague, then switches to Davis when a Right hander is brought in when Davis I not a good pinch hitter is just dumb. Some of the moves he is making starting about 6 games ago makes me wonder if Hurdle has his head in the game. banghead

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Posted: 07/12/2014 7:31 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


I just can't believe he used Melancon, he must not have had anyone else available lol.

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Posted: 07/12/2014 7:37 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Nope, Cferrel.  I'm only an hour up the road.  I can give up runs pretty easily, too.

In all seriousness, it has been alarming how bad the bullpen has looked at times...not to mention how Morton absolutely fell apart in the 6th.  Bad innings happen, but that one--to me, at least--came out of nowhere.

I admit that I was not high on the dude, but I had to admit I was wrong in 2011 or 2012--whatever year it was that he owned the Reds in particular.
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Posted: 07/13/2014 9:09 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Let's just all be glad Hurdle changed!
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 07/13/2014 9:19 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


And if he had let Snider hit, somebody else would be here complaining that he didn't go righty-lefty with Hague.


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--- mbark74 wrote:

Normally it would be no big deal. But to PH Hague for Snider when Snider has three hits and is having a good game is stupid. Especially using Hague, then switches to Davis when a Right hander is brought in when Davis I not a good pinch hitter is just dumb. Some of the moves he is making starting about 6 games ago makes me wonder if Hurdle has his head in the game. banghead

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Posted: 07/13/2014 9:42 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 



mbark74 wrote: Normally it would be no big deal. But to PH Hague for Snider when Snider has three hits and is having a good game is stupid. Especially using Hague, then switches to Davis when a Right hander is brought in when Davis I not a good pinch hitter is just dumb. Some of the moves he is making starting about 6 games ago makes me wonder if Hurdle has his head in the game. banghead
Travis Snider is a .230 hitter versus lefties for his career. Davis is .244 as a pinch hitter and hits righties at a .255 clip. Ultimately, neither were great options. I don't see it as a reason to blow a gasket. noidea
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  • mbark74
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Posted: 07/13/2014 11:15 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


No gasket blown Milf. And I know the lefty righty split. I just maintain that for that one game Snider was having a very good game at the plate. He had 3 hits and for that one game, just give him a chance. I'm not saying not to hit for him in the future. Just that for that ONE game he was on.
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Posted: 07/13/2014 3:25 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Hurdle appears to be a good communicator, motivator, and a players manager - well liked it seems by all of his players.

However, as a strategist, I have never been very impressed with him.
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  • kdog341
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Posted: 07/13/2014 5:20 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Hague is not a major leaguer period. WE missed Marte this week.



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Posted: 07/13/2014 5:34 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 07/13/2014 6:31 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


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--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

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Posted: 07/13/2014 8:38 PM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 



abitoutside wrote: No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


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--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

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I agree with the issues with both Hurdle and Huntington.  I've not been a fan of his track record as a buyer.
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Posted: 07/14/2014 3:36 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 



abitoutside wrote: No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


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--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

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The "obvious shortcomings" are just comments from the peanut gallery here, the result entirely of hindsight.  Any move that doesn't work is suddenly incredibly stupid, and what he "should have done" would have worked to perfection every time.  It is amazing that nobody pays a few of our posters here to manage professional baseball teams, since they always know exactly what the right move was -- and only Hurdle (the only one paid to do it) is too stupid to understand.

We can bicker about particular moves all we like.  I also disagree at times.  But the facts suggest that Hurdle's moves work more than do his adversaries.  This year the Pirates are 22-17 in one run games and 6-4 in extra inning games, and last year we were 29-23 and 9-9.  Whether these numbers are the result of pure dumb luck or good managerial moves, I'll take them. Other than the comments from a few resident know-it-alls, there is no evidence that Hurdle is a bad tactician. 

As for Huntington, his performance is judged by the W-L over time, tempered to some extent by the limitations on recourses by ownership.  So far overall he's acquitted himself very well.

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Posted: 07/14/2014 6:11 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


Hurdle is now getting blasted for pinch hitting for Travis Snider?  A righty-for-lefty swap at that?  Good Lord......
 
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Posted: 07/14/2014 7:37 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 


I know where you stand on Hurdle and you know where I stand. My comment was directed at Fish who seemed to indicate that he sees a deficiency in Hurdle.


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--- gr1111 wrote:


abitoutside wrote: No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


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--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

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The "obvious shortcomings" are just comments from the peanut gallery here, the result entirely of hindsight.  Any move that doesn't work is suddenly incredibly stupid, and what he "should have done" would have worked to perfection every time.  It is amazing that nobody pays a few of our posters here to manage professional baseball teams, since they always know exactly what the right move was -- and only Hurdle (the only one paid to do it) is too stupid to understand.

We can bicker about particular moves all we like.  I also disagree at times.  But the facts suggest that Hurdle's moves work more than do his adversaries.  This year the Pirates are 22-17 in one run games and 6-4 in extra inning games, and last year we were 29-23 and 9-9.  Whether these numbers are the result of pure dumb luck or good managerial moves, I'll take them. Other than the comments from a few resident know-it-alls, there is no evidence that Hurdle is a bad tactician. 

As for Huntington, his performance is judged by the W-L over time, tempered to some extent by the limitations on recourses by ownership.  So far overall he's acquitted himself very well.

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Posted: 07/14/2014 7:46 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 



abitoutside wrote: I know where you stand on Hurdle and you know where I stand. My comment was directed at Fish who seemed to indicate that he sees a deficiency in Hurdle.


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--- gr1111 wrote:


abitoutside wrote: No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


---------------------------------------------
--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

---------------------------------------------


The "obvious shortcomings" are just comments from the peanut gallery here, the result entirely of hindsight.  Any move that doesn't work is suddenly incredibly stupid, and what he "should have done" would have worked to perfection every time.  It is amazing that nobody pays a few of our posters here to manage professional baseball teams, since they always know exactly what the right move was -- and only Hurdle (the only one paid to do it) is too stupid to understand.

We can bicker about particular moves all we like.  I also disagree at times.  But the facts suggest that Hurdle's moves work more than do his adversaries.  This year the Pirates are 22-17 in one run games and 6-4 in extra inning games, and last year we were 29-23 and 9-9.  Whether these numbers are the result of pure dumb luck or good managerial moves, I'll take them. Other than the comments from a few resident know-it-alls, there is no evidence that Hurdle is a bad tactician. 

As for Huntington, his performance is judged by the W-L over time, tempered to some extent by the limitations on recourses by ownership.  So far overall he's acquitted himself very well.

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I probably wouldn't have commented, but I was surprised by the numbers and so decided to post them.  My post was also not directed at you specifically, as I've never suggested that you are one of the "resident know-it-alls".

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Posted: 07/15/2014 9:20 AM

Re: can't believe what Hurdle did tonight. 



abitoutside wrote: No, but at what point do his obvious short comings in this area become a problem? I really like Hurdle and we as fans owe him big time, but I seriously wonder if I trust him with the keys. Same goes for NH and his ability to manage assets now that we are at the high roller table.


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--- fishmong wrote:

Has anybody on this board ever touted Clint Hurdle as a brilliant tactician?

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I have the same questions where Hurdle and, particularly, Huntington are concerned.  I think this was a great post, ABO, and consistent with what you have said about Huntington all along.  Is he 1) a good change agent who can take you from terrible to fairly good but no farther than that, or 2) both a good change agent and a good manager of assets once the rebuild is more or less complete?
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