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The Rays Way/Trade for David Price

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Posted: 06/13/2014 1:08 PM

The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


I've been on this board since I moved to Pittsburgh in 2012, in that time I've seen posters on this board and even Tim Williams at piratesprospects advocate the Pirates should be run the "Rays way".  I've tried to make the point that the Rays are no different than the early 2000's Twins and that no club run that way can have the long term championship runs that guys who advocate the "Rays Way" envision. The common excuse I've seen for the Rays year has been injuries, but if the Rays organization is as good as it's made out to be, where's the depth to overcome injuries? The Rays have accumulated several valued prospects for veteran players, but those prospects are going through growing pains like most prospects do. 

Wil Meyers 227/313/354
Desmond Jennings 239/331/374
Jake Odorizzi 13 starts 4.85 ERA
Matt Moore injured
Jeremy Hellickson injured.

The Rays were a playoff team last season, and a favorite to get back coming into this season. While the Rays have hit on several trades, they haven't drafted much impact talent since they've moved to the top half of the standings and started picking at the back half of the draft. The Rays still have a talented group of young players and a manager that everyone considers among the best in the game, but I can't see them coming back from the hole they've dug themselves. For all the talk of the Pirates 4-15 stretch under Hurdle this season it pales in comparison to the 14-32 stretch the Rays have gone through under Maddon.

The Rays have had a sustained run of contending for the playoffs and losing when they get there. Clearly they've been one of the better run organizations over the last 5 years, but they have as many WS titles out of that as the Brewers do. I'm bringing this up for all the prospect hoarders who want the Pirates to mimic the "Rays Way". Sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot and be willing to deal with the consequences of trading a prospect that may or may not blossom into a star elsewhere.

So all that being said shouldn't the Pirates put serious consideration into trading for David Price. A package including Josh Bell, Jameson Taillon, and Tyler Glasnow with a guy like Travis Snider or Jose Tabata as a throw in would be very tempting for the Rays. Even if all you do is make the Dodgers or Cardinals have to pay more to acquire Price than it's worth making a serious offer right? Thoughts?
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 06/13/2014 1:27 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


I would be concerned about that trade only because I've read in a few places that David Price's velocity is down this year, and his numbers (4-6, 3.97 ERA) are not the eye-poppers we've come to expect from him. 

I don't mind giving up the "farm," so long as the return is exceptional.  The Price of past years probably would be worth the package you're suggesting, but I'm a little more skeptical now.

I can't believe you're speaking ill of Maddon.  For shame!  ohlord  biggrin

___________

 

  

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Posted: 06/13/2014 1:36 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 06/13/2014 1:57 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


The Tigers way of trading for top talent and extending them hasn't won them any World Series titles either. What about Texas and trading for players? Yep they haven't won either. So trading away prospects to strike while the iron has hot has not helped either of these teams out. These teams can afford to at least to try and extend the talent they acquire. The Pirates can't so to trade away multiple prospects to get rentals to go all in is a bad strategy as evidenced by the above teams.

The Rays way isn't much different than the Marlins way and they won a World Series. They tend to do it more dramatically with their rebuilds as opposed to staggering it the way the Rays do. The Rays could of won a World Series over the last few years. David Price has had some clunkers. So why should the Pirates trade for David Price when he couldn't win with Tampa Bay? Perhaps if David Price didn't get bombed last year then the Rays beat the Red Sox and someone else wins the World Series.

The reason the Rays drafts have been so poor is because they're putting the majority of their money into their major league team. That means less money in scouting. I haven't been a fan of their drafts the past few years. It's still way too early though to figure out what they will yield.  They're pretty much non existent in Latin America.  They don't have the resources to scout those areas.  The Pirates should definitely not copy this line of thinking.

This was obviously a down year for the Rays. It's tough to overcome when 3/5 ths of your rotation and all key members go down the first week of the season. On top of that they had offensive players go down as well and Longoria has been playing through injury all season. He won't go on the DL because the team is already ravaged by injury. This looks like a lost season for them but they will likely trade David Price for a boat load and possibly move Zobrist and be back in contention next season.

The Pirates should take the best of everything. The Rays are able to flip star players for prospects and the Pirates should do the same in time. If you have a down season because of injury one year then hey that's just bad luck.

Most of the Pirates injuries are short term DL stints. If Cole went out for the year and at the same time Morton was going to miss the first half of the season and then Liriano got injured that's pretty much what Tampa Bay had to deal with. Combine that with Andrew McCutchen playing through an injury and only posting a low .700 OPS through June and then toss in a couple more injuries to core offensive players and that is pretty much the Pirates version of what Tampa Bay has gone through this season. While the Pirates are banged up right now it's not like they were playing great baseball when they were fully healthy. The reason Tampa Bay is where they are is injuries. You can get by with an injury or two short term. However when you're missing 6 key guys at a time for long stretches and your best player is battling through an injury there is no amount of depth to overcome that.

The best thing Tampa can do is keep losing at this point and get a high draft pick. They'll be a factor next year. 2014 just wasn't their year.

You're nuts to think the Pirates should give up Bell, Taillon and Glasnow for Price. If Prices was truly that much of a difference maker he probably would of won a World Series with Tampa Bay. Even with Price on the Pirates they don't make the playoffs this year. So you've given up all those players for one year of Price basically. Sure you make the playoffs but if he lays an egg like he did against Boston last year it doesn't matter and you're out anyway. Taillon, Glasnow and Bell all could play in the majors at some point next season. Tampa Bay would take that offer happily.

Last edited 06/13/2014 1:59 PM by katoy2j

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Posted: 06/13/2014 1:59 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


IMO, the Rays are in big, big trouble. I think they have run their course and are looking at a few years of bad baseball and a total rebuild. It was a good run, but I think it is over.
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Posted: 06/13/2014 2:23 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



vinnybravo wrote: IMO, the Rays are in big, big trouble. I think they have run their course and are looking at a few years of bad baseball and a total rebuild. It was a good run, but I think it is over.
Your exactly right. And I write this post while sitting a few miles up the road from the Trop. I don't see major league ready prospects coming back for Price. They have a few young guys that look like they will play the part, but who knows how that will work out. That young great staff does not look to great at the moment. I can see a few years of rebuilding happening down here. I also think they paid a little to much for Loney, and I was so happy he signed here and not with us. That contract will hut them IMO. 

All this being said, I still admire how they handle things down here and it's not a bad model for small markets, in some aspects. Lets face it, they do a darn good job in a worse market than Pittsburgh. That pill box of a stadium is terrible, and not located correctly. It is in St Petersburg, and a 30 minutes drive through traffic from Tampa. In a very, very bad area of south St Pete. 

I have been fortunate to play softball at the Trop for a work event. IMO, the field was terrible, and you feel like your in a warehouse. I also got a tour of the facilities once and got to throw out a first pitch for the Rays. I was not impressed at any level. So what they have done is very impressive.
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Posted: 06/13/2014 2:23 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



vinnybravo wrote: IMO, the Rays are in big, big trouble. I think they have run their course and are looking at a few years of bad baseball and a total rebuild. It was a good run, but I think it is over.

Nobody in the AL East believes this at all.

Even with the eventual trade of David Price they will have a rotation of Matt Moore, Alex Cobb, Chris Archer, Jeremy Hellickson and Jake Oddorizzi.

On offense they still have a nice core of Longoria, Myers and Jennings.  Zobrist possibly if they hang onto him.

The one mistake they made and I thought is as such when they made them was with free agents and paying market prices for average players.  James Loney and Grant Balfour are slated to make 16 million combined next season of the teams 48 million of guaranteed salaries.  Obviously the payroll will be higher but it's hard to not picture those two accounting for 25% of the total team payroll.  Not a good investment at all.  The Rays should of continued to look for average offensive production on the cheap as they have in the past.  Nothing wrong with James Loney for 2 million.  Bigger deal at 8.5 million though.  Perhaps they get lucky and are able to free themselves of those two contracts.  If they do I like their chances a lot better.  Perhaps they dump Loney on the Brewers.  Not sure who would touch Balfour right now though even if you gave him away.

Price will yield at least one player who can help them right away most likely.  I've always thought the Cardinals are a great fit for him.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a Price and Joyce package head to the Cardinals and they get back Matt Adams and Oscar Taveras as well as something else.

There is a big difference between lack of depth and just a ridiculous string of injuries that are going to derail you.

If the Rays can get some quality players back for the guys they move and dump some salaries then they will be in great shape next season in my opinion.  Find a way to unload Loney and Balfour and you have a team with a strong starting 5 in the rotation, Longoria, Zobrist, Myers and Jennings on offense and a strong defensive catcher and shortstop.  Add in the players you get for Price and the total payroll for that team is under 45 million even with arbitration raises factored in.  A lot of teams would like to have those kinds of problems.

Last edited 06/13/2014 2:33 PM by katoy2j

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Posted: 06/13/2014 3:09 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



GhostOfPBG wrote: It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
That's all great about what Stanton is doing but he's never been available.  So his numbers would still be on the Marlins.  If the were to move him it will likely be at the trade deadline next season.  They won't do it before the season because it would sink season ticket sales.  So you would be trading all of that 1.5 years of Stanton.  Just like you would be trading all of that for 1.5 years of Price,
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Posted: 06/13/2014 3:41 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


I think a lot of people are underrating how good Tyler Glasnow has the potential to be. He's dominating A ball primarily throwing nothing but fastballs. He hardly ever throws his curve which makes it a lot easier for hitters because they pretty much know what's coming. They still can't touch him.

The only knock on Glasnow is control. If he had that he would be in the majors right now. Still his stuff is good enough that he can overcome a lot of those issues. He's going to need to get moved up to AA soon because the low levels aren't even a challenge for him. He might get smacked around some when he does but it shouldn't be a huge worry. As soon as the control comes though whenever that is you can put him in the major leagues. His stuff might even be good enough that he could dominate AA with a lack of control. If the control comes around he's better than Cole and Taillon by a large margin. Even if it's just mediocre though he's likely to be a very, very good pitcher. I can't think of any pitching prospect currently in the minors I would rather have over Glasnow. Maybe Alex Meyer.

I think Glasnow has a pretty good shot to be a factor next season.  Granted his arm could go out like any other pitchers.  So could David Price's.  You figure he will get up to 140 innings this season and next year he will be around 180.

The Pirates are starting to move players around now.  Kingham has gone onto AAA.  Glasnow should be in AA soon in my mind.  As I said there is a good chance he will get smacked around there which is fine.  I would rather have him learning against better competition.  Guys more likely to make him pay for his mistakes.  Right now in high A despite the fact he's so young the guys there just aren't good enough.

Last edited 06/13/2014 3:47 PM by katoy2j

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Posted: 06/13/2014 4:35 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


Not sure why everyone is so bullish on Bell. I like him, but he is only at hi A and he is 21. He lost time to injury and he is a nice prospect, but by no means a sure thing.
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Posted: 06/13/2014 4:36 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



katoy2j wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
That's all great about what Stanton is doing but he's never been available.  So his numbers would still be on the Marlins.  If the were to move him it will likely be at the trade deadline next season.  They won't do it before the season because it would sink season ticket sales.  So you would be trading all of that 1.5 years of Stanton.  Just like you would be trading all of that for 1.5 years of Price,
I just remember there was a lot of talk about him getting moved last year and he was discussed ad naseum here.  There were many folks who were belly-aching about the thought of giving up Polanco and Taillon for him.  With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like it would've been a brilliant trade on our part in my opinion.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 06/13/2014 4:41 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



abitoutside wrote: Not sure why everyone is so bullish on Bell. I like him, but he is only at hi A and he is 21. He lost time to injury and he is a nice prospect, but by no means a sure thing.
He's hitting over .300 from both sides of the plate, he has power, and he doesn't strikeout.  That's what I like, personally.   Assuming he makes it to Altoona at some point this year, he could very well find his way to Indy as a 22-year-old; I'd say 23 at the latest. 

I get what you're saying though.  I'll feel better if he can replicate it at Altoona.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 06/13/2014 4:48 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


I respect how good Glasnow could potentially be, but I think it's really aggressive to entertain the idea that Glasnow will be ready next season. We're talking about a guy who has pitched less than 200 innings in his professional career. If Glasnow were a college pitcher then I could maybe see him moving that fast, but how many HS arms make it to the majors after 2.5 minor league seasons. Even if he does come up that soon what it's debatable what kind of performance the Pirates could expect out of the kid, it's a big gap to dominating the David Washington's of the world and having to face Joey Votto and Anthony Rizzo. That isn't to say the kid won't be good, but he'll have growing pains just like most prospects have when they advance to the show. David Price, on the other hand, is already established and would be a great anchor for the staff for the next 1.5 seasons. The package that I proposed is a steep price to pay, but the Pirates would get a comp pick when Price turns down the qualifying offer after 2015. I understand that he's gotten beat in the playoffs, but Price is one of the top 10 pitchers in all of baseball. 

The Pirates got off to a slow start, but if they can get Price without losing any meaningful pieces from the ML roster that's a huge boost to the playoff chances. I know you think the Dodgers and Cardinals are going to go on these epic runs, but days keep going by and both those teams are hovering around .500. With Mercer starting to hit, Polanco solidifying RF, and Cutch on fire why can't the Pirates go on a run... especially if they can add a pitcher the caliber of David Price to the rotation.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 06/13/2014 4:59 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
katoy2j wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
That's all great about what Stanton is doing but he's never been available.  So his numbers would still be on the Marlins.  If the were to move him it will likely be at the trade deadline next season.  They won't do it before the season because it would sink season ticket sales.  So you would be trading all of that 1.5 years of Stanton.  Just like you would be trading all of that for 1.5 years of Price,
I just remember there was a lot of talk about him getting moved last year and he was discussed ad naseum here.  There were many folks who were belly-aching about the thought of giving up Polanco and Taillon for him.  With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like it would've been a brilliant trade on our part in my opinion.
katoy has proposed trading Meadows and Kingham for Joey Votto and 40 million dollars or trading 4 A ball players for Troy Tulowitzki. The theoretical trade talk for Giancarlo Stanton is just as valid as any theoretical trades that come out of his post. Stanton probably wasn't ever really available, but the multi-page debate that we had was real, and with the benefit of hindsight adding Stanton instead of Marlon Byrd would have been a nice move even with the cost.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 06/13/2014 8:36 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 




Polanco looks like a beast. I'd rather have Polanco and Taillon over Stanton. Not to say I think your wrong. Stanton is a beast already. I don't even care about right of wrong, I just want the Pirates to win. I don't believe that the notion put forth in this thread is in the best interest of winning. It's a team sport.
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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:


katoy2j wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
That's all great about what Stanton is doing but he's never been available.  So his numbers would still be on the Marlins.  If the were to move him it will likely be at the trade deadline next season.  They won't do it before the season because it would sink season ticket sales.  So you would be trading all of that 1.5 years of Stanton.  Just like you would be trading all of that for 1.5 years of Price,
I just remember there was a lot of talk about him getting moved last year and he was discussed ad naseum here.  There were many folks who were belly-aching about the thought of giving up Polanco and Taillon for him.  With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like it would've been a brilliant trade on our part in my opinion.

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Last edited 06/13/2014 8:37 PM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 06/13/2014 8:42 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:

Polanco looks like a beast. I'd rather have Polanco and Taillon over Stanton. Not to say I think your wrong. Stanton is a beast already. I don't even care about right of wrong, I just want the Pirates to win. I don't believe that the notion put forth in this thread is in the best interest of winning. It's a team sport.
---------------------------------------------
--- GhostOfPBG wrote:


katoy2j wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: It's pretty crazy to see them with the worst record in the league.  I didn't think a manager like Maddon would let that happen.  I figured he'd steal a game or two to turn the momentum.  biggrin

I'd be all for a big acquisition like you mentioned.  It'd be a big boost for the players and fans and I think it'd also help get people off management's back to a certain extent.  Having said that, of course it doesn't mean you just run out and throw the farm at the first blue chip guy that gets dangled, but I'd love to see a splash move.

Giancarlo Stanton is currently on pace for a .299  42 HR  134 RBI season.  That would look pretty nice batting behind Cutch and in front of Pedro.  Taillon, Polanco and some lower level guys are certainly not matching that kind of production this year or last when we were making a playoff push.  It would suck to lose Polanco but if you have Giancarlo (along with Bell and Meadows in the minors) you don't need Polanco.

One thing I will say about Bell though -- I think he's my new favorite prospect now that Polanco is officially up.  Bell is looking like he's going to be an absolute stud offensively.  I'd have a hard time letting go of him.
That's all great about what Stanton is doing but he's never been available.  So his numbers would still be on the Marlins.  If the were to move him it will likely be at the trade deadline next season.  They won't do it before the season because it would sink season ticket sales.  So you would be trading all of that 1.5 years of Stanton.  Just like you would be trading all of that for 1.5 years of Price,
I just remember there was a lot of talk about him getting moved last year and he was discussed ad naseum here.  There were many folks who were belly-aching about the thought of giving up Polanco and Taillon for him.  With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like it would've been a brilliant trade on our part in my opinion.

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Perfectly stated BAM!  Completely agree with you on this.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 06/13/2014 8:53 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


If Josh bell was a first baseman, I'd doubt people would ever mention him in a trade. The problem is we have way too much outfield depth. I'd absolutely hate to trade him.
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Posted: 06/13/2014 9:12 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


The issue is that any small market team will only have a limited window to win. The farm system is important for sustained success, but the odds are that a majority of the prospects will disappoint you. The Pirates have got really lucky with Cutch ascending to the upper echelon of all baseball players. I guarantee no one involved in drafting him ever thought he would be as good as he is today. Cutch is under contract for 4 years after this season for a fraction of what he's worth.

The Pirates have a 5 year window(including this year) to win with Cutch on his current contract. Bell and Glasnow are realistically 2-3 years away in a best case scenario if they make it at all. Assuming they both make it to the big leagues, you can't necessarily count on them to hit the ground running. I think both guys are talented prospects, but a guy like Wil Meyers is showing that even the top tier guys have growing pains. I don't mean to sound "anti-prospect", I'm just thinking how good this team could be RIGHT NOW with David Price and Gerrit Cole anchoring the rotation, and how much more tangible that is than how good the team could be with Glasnow and Bell in 2016 or 2017. The Pirates would still have Kingham, Meadows, Hanson, and a host of middle tier prospects so the farm would be far from barren.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 06/13/2014 10:06 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


The issue is that any small market team will only have a limited window to win.

Why? Is that an absolute truth?

If you trade away chunks of talent and put all your eggs in one basket, it certainly is. The Pirates are not the Rays. They should be able to plug holes in free agency, but their high impact players need to come from the system. If you thin that talent pool, you just reduce your chances of finding it. The Pirates should be the Cardinals. Screw the Rays. I'm not opposed to the right move, for the right guy, at the right time and pay him for the long haul, i.e. Holiday, (bought low on). Maybe Price is a buy low candidate this season, but the package you suggest is insane in my opinion. He's just one man. Get a grip.


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--- fishmong wrote:

The issue is that any small market team will only have a limited window to win. The farm system is important for sustained success, but the odds are that a majority of the prospects will disappoint you. The Pirates have got really lucky with Cutch ascending to the upper echelon of all baseball players. I guarantee no one involved in drafting him ever thought he would be as good as he is today. Cutch is under contract for 4 years after this season for a fraction of what he's worth.

The Pirates have a 5 year window(including this year) to win with Cutch on his current contract. Bell and Glasnow are realistically 2-3 years away in a best case scenario if they make it at all. Assuming they both make it to the big leagues, you can't necessarily count on them to hit the ground running. I think both guys are talented prospects, but a guy like Wil Meyers is showing that even the top tier guys have growing pains. I don't mean to sound "anti-prospect", I'm just thinking how good this team could be RIGHT NOW with David Price and Gerrit Cole anchoring the rotation, and how much more tangible that is than how good the team could be with Glasnow and Bell in 2016 or 2017. The Pirates would still have Kingham, Meadows, Hanson, and a host of middle tier prospects so the farm would be far from barren.

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Last edited 06/13/2014 10:12 PM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 06/13/2014 10:24 PM

Re: The Rays Way/Trade for David Price 


An injured Pitcher that's thrown less than 40 innings above AA, and 2 players who haven't reached AA yet are too much for a Cy Young pitcher??? I can respect your point of view, but telling me to get a grip because I'm suggesting giving something to get something is too much. These guys have tons of potential, but so do

Nick Kingham
Reese McGuire
Austin Meadows
Alen Hanson
Harold Ramirez
Cole Tucker
Luis Heredia
Mitch Keller
Adrian Sampson
JaCoby Jones
Blake Taylor
Andrew Lambo
Joely Rodriquez
Michael De La Cruz
Trey Supak
Buddy Borden
Stetson Allie
Mel Rojas

and whoever the Pirates draft with the comp pick after Price leaves in free agency.

Combine that with

Gerrit Cole
Gregory Polanco
Starling Marte
Jeff Locke
Tony Watson
Justin Wilson
Brandon Cumpton
Stomly Pimental
Mark Melancon
Josh Harrison

who haven't even hit arbitration yet

How thin would the Pirates really be spreading their roster in dealing those three guys for a Cy Young caliber guy in David Price considering that huge list of talent. Their just three prospects... get a grip?
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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