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Smoak and Nick Franklin for......

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Posted: 02/08/2014 8:59 AM

Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Starling Marte? Would you do it? I think Smoak is a break out candidate in the right role and ballpark. Franklin is top pedigree SS that just got his feet wet last year. He started like a house of fire, but then scuffled in the second half. The minor league track record is very good. This would be an aggressive move, but one that could reap huge rewards. Thoughts?
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Posted: 02/08/2014 10:19 AM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Never do it. I live in Oak Harbor WA north of Seattle, Seahags suck by the way. Franklin played mostly 2nd base, I saw him all year and he is a good player but he seemed to run out of gas and his play fell off. I'm sure someone will pay for him. As for Smoak, with the first basemen they already brought in and now they are going to sign Nelson Cruz I'm fairly sure he could be picked up for a serviceable reliever. Marte is going to be a stud for years to come and I look forward to an outfield of Marte, Cutch and Polanco with will be in the top tier of outfields. You don't give away a stud for maybes.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 11:44 AM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



abitoutside wrote: Starling Marte? Would you do it? I think Smoak is a break out candidate in the right role and ballpark. Franklin is top pedigree SS that just got his feet wet last year. He started like a house of fire, but then scuffled in the second half. The minor league track record is very good. This would be an aggressive move, but one that could reap huge rewards. Thoughts?
Nope - Marte is untouchable for the next 3.5 years.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 1:23 PM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Yep. I'd be willing to give up a good player for Smoak, but not Marte.

---------------------------------------------
--- Sangue wrote:


abitoutside wrote: Starling Marte? Would you do it? I think Smoak is a break out candidate in the right role and ballpark. Franklin is top pedigree SS that just got his feet wet last year. He started like a house of fire, but then scuffled in the second half. The minor league track record is very good. This would be an aggressive move, but one that could reap huge rewards. Thoughts?
Nope - Marte is untouchable for the next 3.5 years.

---------------------------------------------

___________

 

  

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Posted: 02/08/2014 1:41 PM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Agreed, no way. I could be wrong, but I think Franklin is mostly a second baseman, which we have no need for and Smoak isn't that good. Sure, he could break out, but Marte is a special talent.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 2:24 PM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Smock is a big question mark. He just has not been able to put it together. If he could, then yes he would be worth Marte, but I'm not sure Smoak will ever live up to his perceived ceiling. So at this point I will say no. Now Smoak for Tabata and a younger pitcher then yes.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 2:47 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 3:11 PM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


That's why you have them throw Franklin into the deal. I am not advocating Marte (he should be off limits), but one or two of our excess relievers makes sense - heck even Locks if AJ signs back on. You ship Franklin to the minors for depth purposes and you could even place him at second if/when Walker gets too expensive. Franklin was playing short for a time, but I am not sure about his range or glove.

I like both players, and might even consider having Franklin as the utility infielder instead of JHay.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 6:33 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 7:16 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


If they trade Marte with Smoak being the focal point coming back I will quit watching baseball.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 10:09 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

How does Smoak have 100% more upside than Lambo?  Please quantify that for me.

Tabata had a higher OPS than Smoak had last year.  Tabata has a higher career OPS than Smoak has.  Despite the fact he is younger.  Just because you think it doesn't make it right.  In fact according to track records Tabata is more likely to be an everyday player and Smoak pretty much already is a platoon player.

You don't like Tabata we all get that.  However to say that he should be labelled a certain way and then you try to defend someone else and pump his tires besides the fact he has been a worse player than Tabata is something I just don't understand.

I happen to like Smoak as a player myself.  I also like Tabata and Lambo however.  Smoak can be useful in a platoon but he isn't an everyday player.  That is pretty similar to Lambo honestly.  If anything they are likely to be pretty comparable players.  As for Tabata he could easily be an everyday player.  He's a 25 year old with a .274 career batting average and a .342 OBP.  Those are career numbers over 1500 plus plate appearances so that isn't exactly a small sample size.  That could certainly start on a lot of teams in baseball without question.  On the Pirates he's not the greatest fit because they already have two other right handed hitting outfielders.
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Posted: 02/08/2014 10:42 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.

Even a somewhat tarnished former top prospect like Smoak is worth more than a reliever, methinks, but in general I agree with katoy here.  I'd rather see what the Pirates' young outfield can do for at least the next couple of years before I would pull the plug on any of McCutchen, Marte, or Polanco.

Last edited 02/08/2014 10:53 PM by williamjpellas

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Posted: 02/09/2014 12:17 AM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

Wow.  All of the bolded.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 5:28 AM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


I wiill simply repeat what I said earlier. If the Pirates trade Marte and Smoak is a focal point of the return I will quit watching baseball.

If you trade Marte the return needs to be much higher than Smoak. Much much much much higher.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 6:58 AM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



katoy2j wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

How does Smoak have 100% more upside than Lambo?  Please quantify that for me.

Tabata had a higher OPS than Smoak had last year.  Tabata has a higher career OPS than Smoak has.  Despite the fact he is younger.  Just because you think it doesn't make it right.  In fact according to track records Tabata is more likely to be an everyday player and Smoak pretty much already is a platoon player.

You don't like Tabata we all get that.  However to say that he should be labelled a certain way and then you try to defend someone else and pump his tires besides the fact he has been a worse player than Tabata is something I just don't understand.

I happen to like Smoak as a player myself.  I also like Tabata and Lambo however.  Smoak can be useful in a platoon but he isn't an everyday player.  That is pretty similar to Lambo honestly.  If anything they are likely to be pretty comparable players.  As for Tabata he could easily be an everyday player.  He's a 25 year old with a .274 career batting average and a .342 OBP.  Those are career numbers over 1500 plus plate appearances so that isn't exactly a small sample size.  That could certainly start on a lot of teams in baseball without question.  On the Pirates he's not the greatest fit because they already have two other right handed hitting outfielders.
See thats one difference between me and you. I dont pretend I am right in what I say, its my opinion and I could be wrong. Here is why I think Smoak could have 100% more upside than Tabata...

When the Pirates got Tabata I thought it was a steal. Tabata had so much upside it was crazy, then I saw him play and saw how he acted. He did play good for spurts last season and bad in others. The two years before that he also played very average. Tabata is a nice player, but does nothing great. His OBP is not good enough to bat leadoff, he does not have good enough power to be a middle of the order guy and his defense is not good enough to over look his average bat. I think on a better offense you could hide him, but with the Pirates needing to score runs Tabata is a 4th OF at best.

Smoak on the other hand was a great player in college. He started out well in the minors, and then I feel Texas called him up to quick. Since then he has been trying to learn on the go. His average has not been good, but for that low average his OBP is pretty darn good, and his power is continuing to develop. He is BIG kid so his range is not great so his dWAR suffers because of range, but other than range he is a good defender. If Smoak can "click" with his hitting he could be a .260/.370/.480+.

To me I can see Smoak being a very good everyday 1B, where I see Tabata as a 4th OF. That is why I think Smoak has 100% more upside. But like I said IF, that is why I would not trade him for Marte right now. Its too big of a gamble.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 7:11 AM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

Wow.  All of the bolded.
I know that you love prospects and you should, but they dont all work out. It seems that in your eyes every Pirates prospect is going to be an above average player. But trends show that is not going to happen. In fact, based on history, less than 50% will actually be average ML players. I think Lambo falls into that category.

Lambo is the new Brad Eldred. Brad hit a ton of HR's and everyone was singing his praises. He was going to be the savior of Pirates power. Heck the FO refused to trade Kip Wells for Ryan Howard because they had Brad.

Here is both players minor numbers at age 24

Lambo  33HR  .282/.347/.574
Eldred  28HR   .28/.353/.676

Eldred also did that in 200 less at bats.

We all know that Eldred didnt work out, yet everyone was singing his praises. I feel there is a good shot this will happen to Lambo as well. Am I saying I am right? No, unlike a few on this board I give my opinion and realize it is just that an opinion. We will see what happens in 2014, but im willing to bet that Lambo will not have the success in MLB as he did last year in the minors.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 10:39 AM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

Wow.  All of the bolded.
I know that you love prospects and you should, but they dont all work out. It seems that in your eyes every Pirates prospect is going to be an above average player. But trends show that is not going to happen. In fact, based on history, less than 50% will actually be average ML players. I think Lambo falls into that category.

Lambo is the new Brad Eldred. Brad hit a ton of HR's and everyone was singing his praises. He was going to be the savior of Pirates power. Heck the FO refused to trade Kip Wells for Ryan Howard because they had Brad.

Here is both players minor numbers at age 24

Lambo  33HR  .282/.347/.574
Eldred  28HR   .28/.353/.676

Eldred also did that in 200 less at bats.

We all know that Eldred didnt work out, yet everyone was singing his praises. I feel there is a good shot this will happen to Lambo as well. Am I saying I am right? No, unlike a few on this board I give my opinion and realize it is just that an opinion. We will see what happens in 2014, but im willing to bet that Lambo will not have the success in MLB as he did last year in the minors.

Except you're misrepresenting my point of view 100%.  I don't expect every Pirates prospect is going to be above average, and I'd press you to show me where I've ever said that.  I also never stated that I expect Lambo to do what he did in the minors last season in the Major Leages this season, and he doesn't have to perform that well to be successful.  If he hits 15-20 homeruns this season with doubles power as well I think that would be a successful season. 

You're also misrepresenting Brad Eldred, by a lot.  No one was singing his praises, in fact, everyone was well aware that he wasn't a legit prospect at all.  That is why he barely got a shot.  Just because the Pirates had the worst GM in the history of sports doesn't mean he was a legit prospect.  He struck out too much for the little amount that he actually walked, and also had many other deficiencies.  If you prorate his age 24 season to Lambo's at-bats last year he would have struck out as much as Lambo and had walked almost 8 fewer times (almost 20% fewer).  Eldred was also epically slow and a brutal fielder.  He could have maybe DH'd for a team desperate for one, but he couldn't do much else.  Lambo is an above average athlete that runs well, is versatile in the field, and is Left-Handed.  To compare Eldred to Lambo is a brutal comparison, they couldn't be more different other than the fact that they both have power.

Last edited 02/09/2014 10:40 AM by cferrel3

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Posted: 02/09/2014 1:20 PM

Re: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 


Absolutely NO!!!!!

Smoak has been a bust and has shown no indication that that is going to really turnaround. Franklin is a decent young shortstop, but Marte is a potential superstar -  no way I make that trade. Now, replace Smoak with the young SP named Walker or the catcher named Zunino, I'd consider that.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 3:02 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

Wow.  All of the bolded.
I know that you love prospects and you should, but they dont all work out. It seems that in your eyes every Pirates prospect is going to be an above average player. But trends show that is not going to happen. In fact, based on history, less than 50% will actually be average ML players. I think Lambo falls into that category.

Lambo is the new Brad Eldred. Brad hit a ton of HR's and everyone was singing his praises. He was going to be the savior of Pirates power. Heck the FO refused to trade Kip Wells for Ryan Howard because they had Brad.

Here is both players minor numbers at age 24

Lambo  33HR  .282/.347/.574
Eldred  28HR   .28/.353/.676

Eldred also did that in 200 less at bats.

We all know that Eldred didnt work out, yet everyone was singing his praises. I feel there is a good shot this will happen to Lambo as well. Am I saying I am right? No, unlike a few on this board I give my opinion and realize it is just that an opinion. We will see what happens in 2014, but im willing to bet that Lambo will not have the success in MLB as he did last year in the minors.

Except you're misrepresenting my point of view 100%.  I don't expect every Pirates prospect is going to be above average, and I'd press you to show me where I've ever said that.  I also never stated that I expect Lambo to do what he did in the minors last season in the Major Leages this season, and he doesn't have to perform that well to be successful.  If he hits 15-20 homeruns this season with doubles power as well I think that would be a successful season. 

You're also misrepresenting Brad Eldred, by a lot.  No one was singing his praises, in fact, everyone was well aware that he wasn't a legit prospect at all.  That is why he barely got a shot.  Just because the Pirates had the worst GM in the history of sports doesn't mean he was a legit prospect.  He struck out too much for the little amount that he actually walked, and also had many other deficiencies.  If you prorate his age 24 season to Lambo's at-bats last year he would have struck out as much as Lambo and had walked almost 8 fewer times (almost 20% fewer).  Eldred was also epically slow and a brutal fielder.  He could have maybe DH'd for a team desperate for one, but he couldn't do much else.  Lambo is an above average athlete that runs well, is versatile in the field, and is Left-Handed.  To compare Eldred to Lambo is a brutal comparison, they couldn't be more different other than the fact that they both have power.
2 things, first name a Pirates prospect that you thought would not work out or at least be better than average. Second, Yes, everyone was talking about how great Eldred was. I wish we could go back on this board to that season. Then in ST he hit a ton of HR's and just about everyone was singing his praises. Same for Brad Lincoln. When he was drafted he was going to be a such a great #1 pitcher, and then when he failed, it was all excused.

I do feel its a good comparison because the only thing Lambo has is power. If he didnt hit 32 HR's in the minors last season he would not even be in the conversation for the ML squad. Go look at every post about Lambo and it centers around his HR's. That is why I feel its a good comparison. If Lambo does not hit for power, then he brings nothing to the Pirates that they already dont have.
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Posted: 02/09/2014 3:31 PM

RE: Smoak and Nick Franklin for...... 



vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
cferrel3 wrote:
vinnybravo wrote:
katoy2j wrote: You would be nuts to give up Marte for that package. If they sign Nelson Cruz it makes Smoak available. Even Tabata is too high a price to pay. Bryan Morris would be a fair trade considering he is a 500K reliever for a couple more years. Smoak is in the same boat as Ike Davis. Yes he was once a top prospect but he still hasn't established himself in the majors. It's one thing when you're making 500K however it's another when you're making 3 million and will see it jump to 5 million the year after.

I think the Pirates are fine with Lambo. At 500K for the next three years he offers as much upside as Smoak and is younger. Having players making nothing at positions allows you to have higher salary players at other positions. Every 500K player is a big boost. As good as McCutchen is as a player, he will make 10x the combined salary of Polanco and Marte next season.
I cant agree with you. Smoak has 100% more upside than Lambo. Now will he ever live up to it?? Also Tabata will always be a platoon player or 4th OF. I think Smoak could be an everyday 1B.

With that being said, I would not trade Marte for Smoak right now.

Wow.  All of the bolded.
I know that you love prospects and you should, but they dont all work out. It seems that in your eyes every Pirates prospect is going to be an above average player. But trends show that is not going to happen. In fact, based on history, less than 50% will actually be average ML players. I think Lambo falls into that category.

Lambo is the new Brad Eldred. Brad hit a ton of HR's and everyone was singing his praises. He was going to be the savior of Pirates power. Heck the FO refused to trade Kip Wells for Ryan Howard because they had Brad.

Here is both players minor numbers at age 24

Lambo  33HR  .282/.347/.574
Eldred  28HR   .28/.353/.676

Eldred also did that in 200 less at bats.

We all know that Eldred didnt work out, yet everyone was singing his praises. I feel there is a good shot this will happen to Lambo as well. Am I saying I am right? No, unlike a few on this board I give my opinion and realize it is just that an opinion. We will see what happens in 2014, but im willing to bet that Lambo will not have the success in MLB as he did last year in the minors.

Except you're misrepresenting my point of view 100%.  I don't expect every Pirates prospect is going to be above average, and I'd press you to show me where I've ever said that.  I also never stated that I expect Lambo to do what he did in the minors last season in the Major Leages this season, and he doesn't have to perform that well to be successful.  If he hits 15-20 homeruns this season with doubles power as well I think that would be a successful season. 

You're also misrepresenting Brad Eldred, by a lot.  No one was singing his praises, in fact, everyone was well aware that he wasn't a legit prospect at all.  That is why he barely got a shot.  Just because the Pirates had the worst GM in the history of sports doesn't mean he was a legit prospect.  He struck out too much for the little amount that he actually walked, and also had many other deficiencies.  If you prorate his age 24 season to Lambo's at-bats last year he would have struck out as much as Lambo and had walked almost 8 fewer times (almost 20% fewer).  Eldred was also epically slow and a brutal fielder.  He could have maybe DH'd for a team desperate for one, but he couldn't do much else.  Lambo is an above average athlete that runs well, is versatile in the field, and is Left-Handed.  To compare Eldred to Lambo is a brutal comparison, they couldn't be more different other than the fact that they both have power.
2 things, first name a Pirates prospect that you thought would not work out or at least be better than average. Second, Yes, everyone was talking about how great Eldred was. I wish we could go back on this board to that season. Then in ST he hit a ton of HR's and just about everyone was singing his praises. Same for Brad Lincoln. When he was drafted he was going to be a such a great #1 pitcher, and then when he failed, it was all excused.

I do feel its a good comparison because the only thing Lambo has is power. If he didnt hit 32 HR's in the minors last season he would not even be in the conversation for the ML squad. Go look at every post about Lambo and it centers around his HR's. That is why I feel its a good comparison. If Lambo does not hit for power, then he brings nothing to the Pirates that they already dont have.

The bolded is a ridiculous statement on a few levels, here's why:

1.  I'm not going to root against a prospect.  I might have reservations about some, but when they are prospects you see their potential.  Not all prospects are created equal, some have holes in their games, others don't.

2.  For TOP PROSPECTS I've never said one was going to fail because you would be dumb to do so.  They succeed most of the time.  It depends what you call a prospect.  For example, there have been countless pitchers that I didn't think were very good that have started games (Daniel McCutchen, Jeff Karstens, Yoslan Herrera, etc.) and position players that weren't very good (Brian Bixler, Josh Harrison, Matt Hague, etc.), but I never considered any of them a prospect anyways other than maybe Harrison slightly.

3.  You don't call a prospect a bust before he ever plays in the Majors, you wait and see how he adjusts to Major League pitching or hitting.  It would be idiotic for me to ever think a (legit) prospect is going to fail, because if that were the case, they wouldn't be a prospect anyways.  See what I'm saying?

I just have realistic expectations in knowing that not every prospect will work out, but that most top prospects will.  That way I'm not as disappointed if a guy underperforms because I was prepared for it.


And too actually address the bolded, if I were to answer it, I would say.....Andrew Lambo.  I don't expect him to be above average, although his ceiling is.  If he hits 15-20 homeruns, draws some walks, and drives some balls to the gap while playing average defense I think the Pirates have a solid enough platoon at First Base.  Anything above that I will take as an added bonus.

Yes, Lambo's calling card was his power last season, but he is also a good athlete that runs well and is also versatile in the field (Garrett Jones with better defense).  He can have value hitting doubles because he can run the bases, the Pirates don't need him to mash 30 homeruns.  That is why it is a bad comparison, Lambo brings a lot more to the table on a baseball field than Eldred ever did, bust or not.

Last edited 02/09/2014 3:32 PM by cferrel3

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