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Grilli

  • Lucci33
  • Member
  • 2550 posts this site

Posted: 07/04/2013 11:44 AM

Grilli 


Something occurred to me while watching yesterday's game against the Phils where Grilling gave up the two run homer. He was very obviously trying to get a strikeout for the last out if the game. And when I think about it, he's done this all season and I don't like it. It's risky (as we saw yesterday), makes him throw more pitches and isn't really team first. I really love what Grilli done this season and love his attitude in general, but I don't like this approach. Take the pop fly or ground out if you can.
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Posted: 07/04/2013 12:38 PM

Re: Grilli 


The thing I've noticed was "93...93...93."  He's not hitting as high on the gun as I'm used to seeing.  I think he definitely needs an extended break.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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  • Lucci33
  • Member
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Posted: 07/04/2013 1:23 PM

RE: Grilli 


Yeah, and I'm guessing he'll be selected and pitch at the ASG, so that won't be the rest he needs.
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Posted: 07/04/2013 2:26 PM

RE: Grilli 



Lucci33 wrote: Yeah, and I'm guessing he'll be selected and pitch at the ASG, so that won't be the rest he needs.
I'd say it's a given.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 8:49 AM

RE: Grilli 


However, Grilli appears to be getting wobbly at about the same time he did last season.  God bless him, he's been a great find for us overall, but he's like an old, broken down gunfighter who can still mow down the Clanton Gang---just not for very long.  In a short duration fight, he's still deadly.  In a long, drawn out conflict, he wears down.  Or so it looks to me.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 9:13 AM

RE: Grilli 


Word has it that the Tigers are willing to trade Castelano for a lockdown closer.  I say we trade Grilli before it's too late.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 07/05/2013 9:28 AM

RE: Grilli 



TBayXXXVII wrote: Word has it that the Tigers are willing to trade Castelano for a lockdown closer.  I say we trade Grilli before it's too late.
I would jump all over that right now.  Like, yesterday.  I'd give up any single reliever they wanted and probably throw in a lower level prospect as well.

Castellano is a 21 year old kid with some nice power and a guy that can play 3B or OF (and I'm assuming 1B as well).  He could literally fit in at either of our 2 weakest positions.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 07/05/2013 10:21 AM

RE: Grilli 



TBayXXXVII wrote: Word has it that the Tigers are willing to trade Castelano for a lockdown closer.  I say we trade Grilli before it's too late.

Boy, would THAT be a move that required a lot of intestinal fortitude.  If the Pirates were not doing so well, trading Grilli for Castelano would be a no-brainer.  But to send your closer packing just as you head for the stretch run....whew.  That's the kind of trade that can make or break general managers' careers.  Of course, you're also rolling the dice in a big way by deciding to hang onto Grilli.  Wow, what a call that has to be made here.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 10:43 AM

RE: Grilli 


Singing Grilli to a two year contract looks to be an unbelievably great move by Huntington.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 10:57 AM

RE: Grilli 


If trading McGehee and Lincoln cause such team chemistry issues last season resulting in a tail spin as many posters suggested, I would hate to see what happens trading Grili. They might not win another game all season.

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Posted: 07/05/2013 4:15 PM

RE: Grilli 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote: Word has it that the Tigers are willing to trade Castelano for a lockdown closer.  I say we trade Grilli before it's too late.
I would jump all over that right now.  Like, yesterday.  I'd give up any single reliever they wanted and probably throw in a lower level prospect as well.

Castellano is a 21 year old kid with some nice power and a guy that can play 3B or OF (and I'm assuming 1B as well).  He could literally fit in at either of our 2 weakest positions.
Nearly every single time, I'd say if you can get an everyday player for a reliever, you do it.  I would almost say "do it" here, but I hesitate.  Primarily for a reason that would make me a terrible GM:  Grilli was loyal to the Bucs.  

Still, I think he's whooped.  I think he's tired.  He can throw hard, but I wonder if he's going to cost us a game or two because of his age.  I don't know it all, but seeing him slide just a little has made me uneasy.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 07/05/2013 4:54 PM

RE: Grilli 


Nearly every single time, I'd say if you can get an everyday player for a reliever, you do it. I would almost say "do it" here, but I hesitate. Primarily for a reason that would make me a terrible GM: Grilli was loyal to the Bucs.

Still, I think he's whooped. I think he's tired. He can throw hard, but I wonder if he's going to cost us a game or two because of his age. I don't know it all, but seeing him slide just a little has made me uneasy.


I don't know if he's tired, or hurt, or both, but he certainly bears watching closely as we move deeper into the summer.  You've put your finger directly on what makes the notion of trading Grilli so difficult.  On the one hand, baseball is a business, and if you can get a near-elite position player prospect---a guy who, if he works out, will still be helping you long after Grilli is retired---then as you say, you do it "nearly every time".  On the other hand, if you are in "win now" mode, as the Pirates appear to be, or as they soon might be, a veteran like Grilli has much more value, as long as he is still effective.  And sending him out of town on a rail, even in a trade like this one that would figure to help for many years down the road, well...does that sent the right message to your clubhouse at this point in time?  Maybe not. 
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Posted: 07/05/2013 5:13 PM

RE: Grilli 



williamjpellas wrote: Nearly every single time, I'd say if you can get an everyday player for a reliever, you do it. I would almost say "do it" here, but I hesitate. Primarily for a reason that would make me a terrible GM: Grilli was loyal to the Bucs.

Still, I think he's whooped. I think he's tired. He can throw hard, but I wonder if he's going to cost us a game or two because of his age. I don't know it all, but seeing him slide just a little has made me uneasy.


I don't know if he's tired, or hurt, or both, but he certainly bears watching closely as we move deeper into the summer.  You've put your finger directly on what makes the notion of trading Grilli so difficult.  On the one hand, baseball is a business, and if you can get a near-elite position player prospect---a guy who, if he works out, will still be helping you long after Grilli is retired---then as you say, you do it "nearly every time".  On the other hand, if you are in "win now" mode, as the Pirates appear to be, or as they soon might be, a veteran like Grilli has much more value, as long as he is still effective.  And sending him out of town on a rail, even in a trade like this one that would figure to help for many years down the road, well...does that sent the right message to your clubhouse at this point in time?  Maybe not. 
If the players are constantly looking over their shoulder, that could hurt very much.  The fans would probably be ticked, too.  Of course, the GM that makes move with only the fans in mind, then he's a GM that's going to the bread line soon.

I also like having what amounts to two closers at the back end.  I think Grilli will fade, but at the same time, Cferrel in particular will tell us it's just a return to average.  Therefore, if he tops out at, say, 5 blown saves and keeps the ERA under 2 and keeps the K/9 up, we'll be fine...as long as one or two of the five aren't one of those crucial ones.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 07/05/2013 5:23 PM

Re: Grilli 


I am all for value trades, but in this instance up I would not do it. This is the trade that made sense 2 years ago with Hanrahan, but you just can't do it now. What needs o happen with Grilli is a lighter work load. Hurdle had him loosening again with a 4 run lead and 2 outs today.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 5:25 PM

Re: Grilli 


His approach is perfect if you ask me. He throws strikes. He attacks the strike zone. Compare him to Hanrahan. He gets results.To trade him would be beyond stupid IMHO. He is the best closer in BB. What more do you want ? He might, with two strikes, against a good hitter, bury two in the dirt. With a three run lead however ? Brown has hit twenty HRS. It was just  Grilli's turn. They still won.  Locke is one of best starters in BB. Liariano one of best starters in BB. Sometimes this board finds a little to much to complain about IMHO. Grilli has a bad outing ? So what ? Locke has bad outing ? So what ? Anybody who has EVER played the game has a bad day. You are given 162 games to have a bad day.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 8:43 PM

Re: Grilli 



abitoutside wrote: I am all for value trades, but in this instance up I would not do it. This is the trade that made sense 2 years ago with Hanrahan, but you just can't do it now. What needs o happen with Grilli is a lighter work load. Hurdle had him loosening again with a 4 run lead and 2 outs today.
Did he?  I was messing around with some other stuff toward the end of the game and not paying complete attention.  That's a knuckle-headed thing to do.  In fact, I was actually pretty surprised that Liriano finished the game, because the one major beef I have with Hurdle is his tendency to use the bullpen too much and sometimes too early. If Francisco was going to be pulled, put in somebody else.  I don't care who, but let's let Mark and Jason rest.  Put in Reid or Wilson, but Grilli needs to be off on games like today's.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 07/05/2013 8:58 PM

RE: Grilli 


I have a very bad feeling about Grilli going forward. I think he has been heavily overworked and his performance will struggle the second half of the year. If I was running the show and Castellanos was offered for him I would make the deal in a second and use Black as the closer. I fully understand that this will not happen though. There would be too much backlash about the move. I mean if they wouldn't trade Hanrahan a few years ago they certainly won't make the move now.

It would really solve a lot of problems for the future though. You simply move Alvarez to first and you can have him platoon with Sanchez. Castelanos would then become the everyday third baseman.
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Posted: 07/05/2013 9:02 PM

RE: Grilli 



katoy2j wrote: I have a very bad feeling about Grilli going forward. I think he has been heavily overworked and his performance will struggle the second half of the year. If I was running the show and Castellanos was offered for him I would make the deal in a second and use Black as the closer. I fully understand that this will not happen though. There would be too much backlash about the move. I mean if they wouldn't trade Hanrahan a few years ago they certainly won't make the move now.

It would really solve a lot of problems for the future though. You simply move Alvarez to first and you can have him platoon with Sanchez. Castelanos would then become the everyday third baseman.
I agree.  Although, if he's ready to be called up right now (which I have no idea if he is or not), and had an impact like Marte had, I think fans would quickly find optimism in the trade.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 07/05/2013 10:34 PM

RE: Grilli 



TBayXXXVII wrote:
katoy2j wrote: I have a very bad feeling about Grilli going forward. I think he has been heavily overworked and his performance will struggle the second half of the year. If I was running the show and Castellanos was offered for him I would make the deal in a second and use Black as the closer. I fully understand that this will not happen though. There would be too much backlash about the move. I mean if they wouldn't trade Hanrahan a few years ago they certainly won't make the move now.

It would really solve a lot of problems for the future though. You simply move Alvarez to first and you can have him platoon with Sanchez. Castelanos would then become the everyday third baseman.
I agree.  Although, if he's ready to be called up right now (which I have no idea if he is or not), and had an impact like Marte had, I think fans would quickly find optimism in the trade.
They would if kid produces right away.  You have to take risks to win at times.

I agree with katoy here, though--I think Grilli has been well overworked this year.  Hopefully, the Bucs find a way to score more runs--a greater differential--and Hurdle stops warming Grilli up every ten minutes.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 07/05/2013 10:50 PM

RE: Grilli 


I don't think Castalanos would produce right away. So very few guys do. He would probably produce similar to Manny Machado last year who had a .739 OPS. I would probably still make the move with the intention to use him for 2014. I don't see closer as a major issue because I think if you're a good reliever you can close. If I can get a talented everyday player for Grilli even if I have to wait a year for him I do it. I'm comfortable using a rookie closer. Craig Kimbrell was a rookie closer a few years back and he turned out fine. Even if you want to get a guy who has done it before you can get a rental like Francisco Rodriguez for a spare part player like Travis Snider.
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