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What to do with Pedro

Posted: 05/10/2013 1:59 PM

What to do with Pedro 


It was nice that he hit a HR lat night, but other than that he has almost be useless. Add to that he is hitting .168 vs righties and you have a major problem. Pedro was supposed to be a big part of the middle of the line up, but he is more of liability at this point. What do you do with him? Continue to let him hit sub .200 and hope it gets better? Send him down to AAA to see if it gets better? I have no Idea, but he is one player that is killing the offense so far this season.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 2:06 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


As bad as he has been so far, he still 26-year-old player with a 30-home run season to his credit.  He has to stay in there most every day.  Perhaps he should sit a little more often against tough lefties, but he is actually hitting lefties better than righties (though that is the definition of damning with faint praise).

If you take him out, you're basically giving away 30 HR -- since nobody else on the team who plays third is going to hit many at all (Brandon Inge?). You can't bring Russell Martin out from behind the plate, since McHenry's defense isn't good enough to be a regular.  And Gaby Sanchez would butcher the position defensively.

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Posted: 05/10/2013 3:07 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 



gr1111 wrote: As bad as he has been so far, he still 26-year-old player with a 30-home run season to his credit.  He has to stay in there most every day.  Perhaps he should sit a little more often against tough lefties, but he is actually hitting lefties better than righties (though that is the definition of damning with faint praise).

If you take him out, you're basically giving away 30 HR -- since nobody else on the team who plays third is going to hit many at all (Brandon Inge?). You can't bring Russell Martin out from behind the plate, since McHenry's defense isn't good enough to be a regular.  And Gaby Sanchez would butcher the position defensively.

Inge could probably still poke one out every now and then, but he's older now and he's had a lot of trouble staying healthy in recent years, and I suspect his body is now to the point where he is okay as long as you don't ask him to do too much---but if you try to use him as a regular, he'll break down sooner rather than later.  In other words he's in the perfect role for him of multiposition supersub who might get 300 to 350 at bats if he stays busy and stays healthy, but that's about the upper limit for him anymore, I think.


I don't have any problem with Martin getting, say, a start a week at third---both to help him stay fresher and to get McKenry's power into the lineup.  But as gr1111 says, McKenry's defense just isn't that good, so you are giving up a great deal on the defensive and game calling end of the spectrum when you play him.  At least you do when compared with a cagey veteran like Martin.  Gaby Sanchez?  Not able to play third base well enough and he's doing good work over at first and off the bench, anyway, so if Pedro is to be replaced or diminished, I think the answer will have to come from outside the organization.  I mean, I suppose you could go out and get some middling veteran from some other organization's junkheap---somebody like Kevin Kouzmanoff---and pair him with Inge while you farm Pedro out for the rest of the season, but at this point, is that really going to do Pedro or the Pirates any good?  To me, you only make that move if you've made the irrevocable decision that you're ready to move on from Pedro and that's that.  The trouble is that Pedro's production last season was fairly good, all things considered and when compared with the rest of his peers at his position.  Way, WAY too many strikeouts and he'll never be an elite hitter for average nor an elite defender, but between his power and his improved defense, where else are the Pirates going to go at this point in time?  Unless he has an Adam Dunn in 2011 type of season---meaning he's hitting a buck seventy at the All Star break---you just have to keep running him out there and hope he goes on a couple of hot streaks so he's at least above the Mendoza Line.  Honestly, the way this team is currently constructed, I have to believe he's the starter as long as he's anywhere north of .200 by the season's midpoint.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 5:32 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Let's all sign an encouraging "You can do it, Petey!" card and mail it to him.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 05/10/2013 6:59 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Package him in a trade for Stanton.  

Realistically though, gauge his trade value.  He's not the player he was expected to be.  Not at all.  So see if any teams still view him as a young, up-and-coming player with a bright future.  If they do, he'll be valuable.  No one can deny his power, it's amazing.  He's just way too inconsistent.

Alvarez + Tabata + Tallion (and probably another prospect or two) for Stanton.  Do it.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 7:08 PM

RE: What to do with Pedro 


I wouldn't trade Taillon any more. He looks like the real deal. He will be more valuable than Stanton, who can't stay healthy and is not even 25. Not that Stanton isn't a great talent, but he's no more a sure thing than Taillon. I have defended Pedro, but he's wearing thin. He's still more valuable than anything we could reasonably get for him. The defense is solid, he is likely to hit .250ish with 30+ homers by the end of the season. That is a disappointment from what he was drafted and paid to be, but that's the way it goes. Could do a lot worse, tough to do much better.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 7:39 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


What to do with Pedro?  You play him everyday at third base and let him hit .250 with 30+ homeruns and above average defense.  Yeah, sounds about right.
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Posted: 05/11/2013 5:45 AM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Yeah he needs to continue to play daily with the occassional day off against lefties.

He is frustrating with his wild ups and mostly downs, but the reality is that no other option is ven remotely close to being an upgrade.
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Posted: 05/11/2013 6:01 AM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Cf if that is what Pedro can so then I am all for it, but when he is hitting sub .200 for months at a time and playing just ok defense you have to show some concern. He does not seem to be showing any type of improvement at the plate and that is a concern to me. I have no idea what the right thing to do is, but to just ignore the problem is not going to help.

I know the Pirates have no help within the organization at 3B and I am not saying that the Pirates should give up on Pedro, but he was supposed to be the heart of the line up and he is failing. The Pirates are in the bottom 3rd of runs scored and need Pedro to be the player he can be if they expect to be a .500 or better team.

And why does Pedro tuck his ears into his hat? It just looks weird.
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Posted: 05/11/2013 7:33 AM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


The mercury has been below 70 for the most part. I bet Petey warms up once the weather does.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 05/16/2013 12:26 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Agreed.  I hate it.  It makes him look like he's some douche that bought a hat too large so he's trying to find a way to wear it still.  Or that he's so dumb that he thinks it's a style.

vinnybravo wrote: Cf if that is what Pedro can so then I am all for it, but when he is hitting sub .200 for months at a time and playing just ok defense you have to show some concern. He does not seem to be showing any type of improvement at the plate and that is a concern to me. I have no idea what the right thing to do is, but to just ignore the problem is not going to help.

I know the Pirates have no help within the organization at 3B and I am not saying that the Pirates should give up on Pedro, but he was supposed to be the heart of the line up and he is failing. The Pirates are in the bottom 3rd of runs scored and need Pedro to be the player he can be if they expect to be a .500 or better team.

And why does Pedro tuck his ears into his hat? It just looks weird.
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Posted: 05/16/2013 12:35 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 



cferrel3 wrote: What to do with Pedro?  You play him everyday at third base and let him hit .250 with 30+ homeruns and above average defense.  Yeah, sounds about right.
Yep - he will end up with 30 HRs and hitting .240-.250.  I think the defense is average at best.  He makes some great plays but botches some routine ones too.
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Posted: 05/16/2013 12:43 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Too bad we wasted 2 years on Allie trying to make him a pitcher.  Had he performed like this at the plate back then, be might be a replacement for Pedro now or soon.  Because there literally is no one else, we're stuck with him.  I said it 2 years ago, last year, and now... unload him as soon as you can.  Make him someone else's problem.
#fringeprospect
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  • bucco66
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Posted: 05/16/2013 1:07 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


I hate to say it, but Allie's numbers have been rapidly falling back to real world over the past 2-3 weeks. HRs have disappeared, BA barely over .300 and 14 K's in his last 33 AB's.
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Posted: 05/16/2013 1:39 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 



bucco66 wrote: I hate to say it, but Allie's numbers have been rapidly falling back to real world over the past 2-3 weeks. HRs have disappeared, BA barely over .300 and 14 K's in his last 33 AB's.
That's ok.  Nothing wrong with that for someone's first 150 AB's in A-ball.
#fringeprospect

Last edited 05/16/2013 1:42 PM by TBayXXXVII

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Posted: 05/16/2013 2:13 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 



TBayXXXVII wrote: Too bad we wasted 2 years on Allie trying to make him a pitcher.  Had he performed like this at the plate back then, be might be a replacement for Pedro now or soon.  Because there literally is no one else, we're stuck with him.  I said it 2 years ago, last year, and now... unload him as soon as you can.  Make him someone else's problem.
Pedro drives me nuts, and he's a disappointment.  He's still a guy batting 6th or 7th that is likely to hit .250ish with 30 HR and play 3B capably.  You don't "unload him and make him someone else's problem."  And You have been saying this for 3 years, until you get called on it, then it was out of context because you meant as a 4 hitter.  So right now, just to clarify, you meant as a 4 hitter, right?  Not in general?  Should we just DFA him and let him coach high school?  I am not against moving Pedro at this point if he is a part of a package that results in an upgrade.  If we can find a 3B better than .244/.317/.467 with 30 HR, I'm all for it.  I really doubt we can.

Last edited 05/16/2013 2:14 PM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 05/16/2013 3:09 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


Should we just DFA him and let him coach high school? I am not against moving Pedro at this point if he is a part of a package that results in an upgrade. If we can find a 3B better than .244/.317/.467 with 30 HR, I'm all for it. I really doubt we can.


This is the whole rub with Pedro.


While there's nothing wrong with a .244/.317/.467 line with 30 HR and average defense from your third baseman, those numbers unfortunately also come with enormous peaks and valleys---mostly valleys---and enormous numbers of strikeouts.  I don't know exactly how his 2012 season shook out, but I'd be willing to bet that he posted most of his production in about a third of the season if not less than that, with the other two thirds or more being bad beyond belief.  That same pattern has continued in 2013, with the exception being that we have not yet seen anything like the two "Babe Ruth Streaks" he went on last year.  My whole point with him is that you can't count on a guy having one, let alone two, incredible hot streaks like Pedro had last year.  It's at least equally possible, if not more than that, that he could go an entire season without ever really going on a tear.  If he does that, he's hard pressed to stay above the Mendoza Line---and the bottom line for me is that he wasn't drafted where he was to be the third base position's answer to Rob Deer. 


Unfortunately, as you say, at this time there aren't a lot of realistic alternatives to Pedro, either inside or outside the Pirates' organization.  I'm pretty sure he'll get 500 at bats this year to show what he can or cannot do.  Let's all hope he ends up with numbers at least comparable to what he did last year.  So far, he's not doing that.

Last edited 05/16/2013 3:11 PM by williamjpellas

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Posted: 05/16/2013 8:03 PM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


If we were really inclined, Walker and Mercer could handle 2nd and 3rd base respectively.  I know they don't have Pedro's arm strength but they'd provide more from the plate and they'd probably be similar in terms of overall defense.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 05/17/2013 4:46 AM

Re: What to do with Pedro 


More at the plate? Well it depends on what you are looking for. Certainly they would hit for a better average and strike out less. But Pedro will have more HRs than both combined when all is said or done. Walker is not hitting either. He is hitting what .240 with 1 HR?

I get frustrated like everyone else with Pedro and if there was a way to get a viable replacement, then sure I would jump on board. But the reality is, he is the best we got at 3rd and it is not even close really.

GhostOfPBG wrote: If we were really inclined, Walker and Mercer could handle 2nd and 3rd base respectively.  I know they don't have Pedro's arm strength but they'd provide more from the plate and they'd probably be similar in terms of overall defense.
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Posted: 05/17/2013 5:55 AM

Re: What to do with Pedro 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:
TBayXXXVII wrote: Too bad we wasted 2 years on Allie trying to make him a pitcher.  Had he performed like this at the plate back then, be might be a replacement for Pedro now or soon.  Because there literally is no one else, we're stuck with him.  I said it 2 years ago, last year, and now... unload him as soon as you can.  Make him someone else's problem.
Pedro drives me nuts, and he's a disappointment.  He's still a guy batting 6th or 7th that is likely to hit .250ish with 30 HR and play 3B capably.  You don't "unload him and make him someone else's problem."  And You have been saying this for 3 years, until you get called on it, then it was out of context because you meant as a 4 hitter.  So right now, just to clarify, you meant as a 4 hitter, right?  Not in general?  Should we just DFA him and let him coach high school?  I am not against moving Pedro at this point if he is a part of a package that results in an upgrade.  If we can find a 3B better than .244/.317/.467 with 30 HR, I'm all for it.  I really doubt we can.
Yeah, the #4 option is just done.  He has proven he can't handle that mental part of the game.  To me, that means that his streakyness/potential is less impactful.  Batting that far down in the lineup (6th and 7th), is virtually useless.  He'll never get pitches to hit.  He'll rarely come up with runners on base.  He'll rarely be as productive as his raw numbers would indicate.  Sure, a .260 / 30HR guy is nice to have, but when he only has 75-80 RBI's, that's pretty ridiculous.  Guys who hit 30 HR's should have at least 100 RBI's.

Last year and the year before I was ok with him hitting 5th.  If he can do that, again, that's fine... but batting 6th or 7th is just flat out unacceptable.  So if this is all he is, then I'd just find a trade partner at some point (this season or off-season), and include him in the deal. Meaning, like the deals we threw around (for fun), about Sale.  Put Pedro in that deal and maybe the other team may not realize exactly what they're getting and be willing to take a lesser caliber deal.

Last year and the year before, he wasn't even a legit ML hitter in April and May.  Who knows, maybe that's his problem.  Maybe the solution is to just play him in 10 games the first 2 months.  The rest of the season will probably give us a better hold on him.  If he continues to hit like this all year, which I don't think he'll do at all, then I'd entertain just cutting him.  Since he's got 1 year left before arbitration, I'd give him next season.  If he's the same next year as this year, then I wouldn't even offer him arbitration, I'd just let him walk.

At this point and moving forward, I am officially done with Alvarez of being any type of cornerstone player for this organization.  He's no longer a potential star.  He's simply, "just a guy".  I haven't gotten a chance to actually watch any games yet, that he played, this seasons.  Oddly, I've only been able to watch 3 games this season and he didn't play in any... that's not true, he did play in the Seattle game, but he was a DH.  My point that I'm getting at though is his defense.  I don't know if he really has gotten any better.  Hey, if he's turning out to be an excellent defensive player, I'll live with him at the bottom of the lineup.
#fringeprospect
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