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Well we definitely won the Hanny trade....

Posted: 05/09/2013 3:19 PM

Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


He's headed for the 60 day DL and surgery is being discussed.  I hate it for Hanny too because he seemed like a jolly 'ol fella.  Hopefully he returns to form.  Pretty sure there's a good fat joke in there somewhere but I'll let it slide considering the bad news for him pirate

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"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 05/09/2013 3:38 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


On a side note, I wonder if the Sox would be interested in reacquiring Melancon for a nominal fee?  Say....a nice SS prospect?
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 05/09/2013 5:09 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


Like it or not, financial considerations do come into play for most teams in MLB.  The Pirates elected to trade Hanrahan rather than pay him a higher salary in arbitration, and while no one could have predicted that Joel would tear up his elbow, it's also true that he wasn't in the best physical condition for much of his time in Pittsburgh---and thus it could be argued that an injury was probably more likely for him than it might be for other players who were in better shape.  This in no way diminishes the work that he did for the Pirates.  He was a very good closer for us, and definitely a significantly better pitcher than I thought he was.  I'm just saying that the automatic knee jerk response of most long-suffering Pirates fans---"they just won't pay anyone any money!!!"---is not always accurate.  Add in the volatility of many closers, both in terms of performance and in terms of their physical health, and most of them are simply not a good investment at high dollars.  The best ones are, of course.  But there's not many of those guys. 


Mind you, that's not to say that I buy into the idea that building and managing a major professional sports team is all about identifying financial trends and then counterprogramming against them, or all about identifying supposedly previously unknown statistical paradigms and then using them to your advantage.  There's some of that, to be sure.  But there's a lot more to the exercise, as well, and that's a longer topic for another time.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 7:32 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


It's really a shame for Hanrahan.  Hopefully he comes back and has a great career.  At least he got his payday.

Having said that, things have turned up roses for Grilli and Melancon so far.  Not even the most cockeyed optimist could have predicted the numbers they are putting up.
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Posted: 05/09/2013 8:51 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 



---------------------------------------------
--- Sangue wrote:

It's really a shame for Hanrahan.  Hopefully he comes back and has a great career.  At least he got his payday.

Having said that, things have turned up roses for Grilli and Melancon so far.  Not even the most cockeyed optimist could have predicted the numbers they are putting up.

---------------------------------------------

Grilli was predictable. He was actually better than Joel last year. That's why, while Hanrahan wasn't a salary dump in the sense that a lot of misinformed Pittsburghers will claim, he was still traded after his numbers had dropped and had lost value. So, he was nowhere near worth what an arbitrator would have given him...rather than just being too expensive to be palatable.

Melancon was dicey. His numbers over his career were far better than last year, but you also have the Hanrahan element with relievers where maybe they just lost "it". Gotta strike while the iron is hot with relievers, they're frequently "flash-in-the-pan" performers and are always replaceable. Heck, look at our list of successful closers. What have Capps, Gonzalez, Dotel, Chavez, Veras, Marte, etc. done since leaving? Solid at best, and never spectacular. Luckily, Melancon's been replicating his numbers instead of regressing.

Bucs have also clearly won the Lincoln trade at this point. Regardless of what you think of Snider, he's contributing at the MLB level and Lincoln had been (until recently) at AAA. He made a MLB appearance tonight and walked 2 in a row, with the 2nd being a winning run. Any time you can take a borderline middle reliever and turn him into a position player that's 2.5 years younger, do it in a heartbeat. Kudos to the Pirates for taking a chance....Lincoln was clearly a sell high based on the 2nd half of last year and this year.

Last edited 05/09/2013 9:19 PM by Pittbball11

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Posted: 05/10/2013 6:21 AM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 



Pittbball11 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- Sangue wrote:

It's really a shame for Hanrahan.  Hopefully he comes back and has a great career.  At least he got his payday.

Having said that, things have turned up roses for Grilli and Melancon so far.  Not even the most cockeyed optimist could have predicted the numbers they are putting up.

---------------------------------------------

Grilli was predictable. He was actually better than Joel last year. That's why, while Hanrahan wasn't a salary dump in the sense that a lot of misinformed Pittsburghers will claim, he was still traded after his numbers had dropped and had lost value. So, he was nowhere near worth what an arbitrator would have given him...rather than just being too expensive to be palatable.

Melancon was dicey. His numbers over his career were far better than last year, but you also have the Hanrahan element with relievers where maybe they just lost "it". Gotta strike while the iron is hot with relievers, they're frequently "flash-in-the-pan" performers and are always replaceable. Heck, look at our list of successful closers. What have Capps, Gonzalez, Dotel, Chavez, Veras, Marte, etc. done since leaving? Solid at best, and never spectacular. Luckily, Melancon's been replicating his numbers instead of regressing.

Bucs have also clearly won the Lincoln trade at this point. Regardless of what you think of Snider, he's contributing at the MLB level and Lincoln had been (until recently) at AAA. He made a MLB appearance tonight and walked 2 in a row, with the 2nd being a winning run. Any time you can take a borderline middle reliever and turn him into a position player that's 2.5 years younger, do it in a heartbeat. Kudos to the Pirates for taking a chance....Lincoln was clearly a sell high based on the 2nd half of last year and this year.
Grilli and Snider both had really bad 2nd halfs last year.  It was far from a given that Grilli would be lights out in the first half of 2013. Snider's 0 HR in 78 At Bats still makes him a question mark.  If the Pirates are serious about contending this year, upgrading RF around the all star break with a rent-a-player borderline star would make a lot of sense.

There's no question the Hanrahan trade is a big win for the Pirates and on May 10, the Snider trade is leaning in the Pirates direction.  Lincoln was really good for the Pirates last year.  His 3.38 ERA with the Blue Jays this year isn't horrible, although his WHIP at 1.63 is bad.  7K's in 8 IP's is good.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 8:26 AM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 



Sangue wrote:
Pittbball11 wrote:
---------------------------------------------
--- Sangue wrote:

It's really a shame for Hanrahan.  Hopefully he comes back and has a great career.  At least he got his payday.

Having said that, things have turned up roses for Grilli and Melancon so far.  Not even the most cockeyed optimist could have predicted the numbers they are putting up.

---------------------------------------------

Grilli was predictable. He was actually better than Joel last year. That's why, while Hanrahan wasn't a salary dump in the sense that a lot of misinformed Pittsburghers will claim, he was still traded after his numbers had dropped and had lost value. So, he was nowhere near worth what an arbitrator would have given him...rather than just being too expensive to be palatable.

Melancon was dicey. His numbers over his career were far better than last year, but you also have the Hanrahan element with relievers where maybe they just lost "it". Gotta strike while the iron is hot with relievers, they're frequently "flash-in-the-pan" performers and are always replaceable. Heck, look at our list of successful closers. What have Capps, Gonzalez, Dotel, Chavez, Veras, Marte, etc. done since leaving? Solid at best, and never spectacular. Luckily, Melancon's been replicating his numbers instead of regressing.

Bucs have also clearly won the Lincoln trade at this point. Regardless of what you think of Snider, he's contributing at the MLB level and Lincoln had been (until recently) at AAA. He made a MLB appearance tonight and walked 2 in a row, with the 2nd being a winning run. Any time you can take a borderline middle reliever and turn him into a position player that's 2.5 years younger, do it in a heartbeat. Kudos to the Pirates for taking a chance....Lincoln was clearly a sell high based on the 2nd half of last year and this year.
Grilli and Snider both had really bad 2nd halfs last year.  It was far from a given that Grilli would be lights out in the first half of 2013. Snider's 0 HR in 78 At Bats still makes him a question mark.  If the Pirates are serious about contending this year, upgrading RF around the all star break with a rent-a-player borderline star would make a lot of sense.

There's no question the Hanrahan trade is a big win for the Pirates and on May 10, the Snider trade is leaning in the Pirates direction.  Lincoln was really good for the Pirates last year.  His 3.38 ERA with the Blue Jays this year isn't horrible, although his WHIP at 1.63 is bad.  7K's in 8 IP's is good.


Lincoln's ERA isn't great because of one bad outing against the Yankees (2 ER in an inning).  His big problem right now is walks.  He has 7 in 7 innings pitched, which is way too high.

After a quick start, Snider is slumping.  He's just 3 of his last 26, and still doesn't have a home run.  He should be hitting balls over the Clemente wall.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 05/10/2013 8:44 AM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


We won the day the trade was made. Despite popular mythology, unless the guy is Mariano Rivera or former great Trevor Hoffman, closers come and go every year.

What Boston gave up for Hanrahan was absurd. They already had Bailey and Melancon.
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Posted: 05/10/2013 1:00 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 



Milfman wrote: We won the day the trade was made. Despite popular mythology, unless the guy is Mariano Rivera or former great Trevor Hoffman, closers come and go every year.

What Boston gave up for Hanrahan was absurd. They already had Bailey and Melancon.

Completely agree.  This trade is looking like it might end up one of Huntington's best.  Especially if De Jesus or Pimentel amount to something in the majors to go along with Melancon.
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Posted: 05/12/2013 1:58 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


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Posted: 05/13/2013 12:28 PM

RE: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


Pimentel was touching 98 the other night, FWIW.

Lots of power arms in the minor league system with Pimentel, Cole, Taillon, Glasnow, Heredia, Holmes as your starters (then obviously Welker and Black in relief) along with Andy Oliver being capable of ramping up to 95 as a lefty starter.
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Posted: 05/14/2013 9:05 PM

Re: Well we definitely won the Hanny trade.... 


Decent ESPN read on Melancon

"Red Sox could use Melancon right now"

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets...ancon-right-now
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