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Hughes

Posted: 04/18/2013 6:56 PM

Hughes 


He was lucky to get out of the 7th unscathed. I can't believe Hurdle sent him out there in the 8th.
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Posted: 04/18/2013 7:40 PM

Re: Hughes 


Yep. And let him pitch to that recovering addict was like watching a movie that you had already seen before.

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--- ajpanther wrote:

He was lucky to get out of the 7th unscathed. I can't believe Hurdle sent him out there in the 8th.

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Posted: 04/18/2013 10:35 PM

RE: Hughes 


His stuff is average at best. If he's going to be used in high leverage situations then he's going to get lit up. He's best served as your 6th guy in the pen. Morris, Black and Welker are all much better options in my view. Hughes is a major league pitcher but if he isn't on his game that night then he's useless. Hopefully Morris will be up again soon and the team uses him in the role they are using Hughes in. Ideally Hughes should be the teams 6th best reliever and not it's third.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 4:51 AM

RE: Hughes 


This is one of those cases I agree with Katoy, et al--most relievers are very volatile.  I like Jared (the personality on the mound, that is), but he gets hit hard, particularly this year.  He's being set up for failure.

JFC 2013 Bluegrass Jam
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Posted: 04/19/2013 4:56 AM

RE: Hughes 


He has gotten worse, much worse the more he has pitched. He was effective when he first broke into the league, but he blows now. Terrible actually.

And i have not looked at any stats to back what I am about to say up so I'll admit the stats might not back me up, but he seems like he walks every other better anymore. He is constantly getting behind in the count and to me that seems like his biggest issue.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 7:50 AM

Re: Hughes 


The announcers and others have been complimentary of Hughes since he's been with the Pirates. I never saw the talent. Like Katoy said, his stuff is average at best and should be used as sparingly as possible. Hurdle lost the game last night by bringing in Hughes.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 7:54 AM

RE: Hughes 



panthers2533 wrote: He has gotten worse, much worse the more he has pitched. He was effective when he first broke into the league, but he blows now. Terrible actually.

And i have not looked at any stats to back what I am about to say up so I'll admit the stats might not back me up, but he seems like he walks every other better anymore. He is constantly getting behind in the count and to me that seems like his biggest issue.
Hughes' walk rate this year is 5.6/9 IP. That's way too high. Last year it was 2.6.

He's been a bit unlucky with HR this year, but that will even out. As of right now, his FIP is worse than his ERA (because of a lower than average BABIP) and his xFIP is better, but it's only 4.35. Considering that the defense behind him is good and he's a ground ball pitcher, we could reasonably assume that his ERA could be around 4 or a little under that if the HR normalize. As a bullpen guy, that's probably a 5th or 6th guy. My thought is that he's a long man or a ground ball specialist out of the bullpen (when you need a double play).
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Posted: 04/19/2013 8:08 AM

RE: Hughes 



dirtyfrankwvu wrote:
panthers2533 wrote: He has gotten worse, much worse the more he has pitched. He was effective when he first broke into the league, but he blows now. Terrible actually.

And i have not looked at any stats to back what I am about to say up so I'll admit the stats might not back me up, but he seems like he walks every other better anymore. He is constantly getting behind in the count and to me that seems like his biggest issue.
Hughes' walk rate this year is 5.6/9 IP. That's way too high. Last year it was 2.6.

He's been a bit unlucky with HR this year, but that will even out. As of right now, his FIP is worse than his ERA (because of a lower than average BABIP) and his xFIP is better, but it's only 4.35. Considering that the defense behind him is good and he's a ground ball pitcher, we could reasonably assume that his ERA could be around 4 or a little under that if the HR normalize. As a bullpen guy, that's probably a 5th or 6th guy. My thought is that he's a long man or a ground ball specialist out of the bullpen (when you need a double play).


I agree with this assessment of Hughes.  Average at best.

I too was skeptical when I saw him come out for a second inning last night, and not at all surprised when he gave up the lead.  To be fair to him, he was a bit unlucky, since the home run wasn't hit all that hard and was just an ordinary fly ball that curled into the corner around the pole (350 feet or so it seemed).  After the game, Gattis commented that he was surprised the ball left the yard, since he didn't get much of it.

But that's the way it goes.  I think Hurdle gambled that he could get one more inning out of Hughes so that he could preserve the bullpen in case the game went into extra innings.  I think there is also a legit concern that Melancon is going to be overworked if he continues at his current pace (he's pitched in 9 of our 15 games).  It was obviously a gamble that didn't work.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:30 AM

RE: Hughes 


I posed the Hughes question a week or so ago. He just does not look like the same pitcher he was last year.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:37 AM

Re: Hughes 


Are we surprised Hurdle is misusing a player again?  Hughes is "proven" and "has a track record" and is one of Hurdles boys.  So by default he pitches the 7th, doesn't matter that there are better pitchers out in the bullpen.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:46 AM

RE: Hughes 


I wouldn't give up on Hughes quite yet, in 6 games to start the season he had a 3.18 ERA with a 0.88 WHIP holding opposing batters to a 111/227/278 slash line. We're really just reacting to his last 2 appearances. Evan Gattis is no slouch, he's taken Roy Halladay and Stephen Strasburg deep this year.

Relief pitching is volatile, you can't jump ship after a couple bad appearances.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:49 AM

Re: Hughes 



cferrel3 wrote: Are we surprised Hurdle is misusing a player again?  Hughes is "proven" and "has a track record" and is one of Hurdles boys.  So by default he pitches the 7th, doesn't matter that there are better pitchers out in the bullpen.
Who's "better"? Bryan Morris??????
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:51 AM

Re: Hughes 



fishmong wrote:
cferrel3 wrote: Are we surprised Hurdle is misusing a player again?  Hughes is "proven" and "has a track record" and is one of Hurdles boys.  So by default he pitches the 7th, doesn't matter that there are better pitchers out in the bullpen.
Who's "better"? Bryan Morris??????

Justin Wilson, Bryan Morris (when he comes back up).
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Posted: 04/19/2013 9:54 AM

Re: Hughes 


Jusstin Wilson had already pitched in the game when he brought Hughes in. I think you have valid opinions, but it seems like you make a lot of stretches to "bash" Hurdle.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 04/19/2013 10:02 AM

Re: Hughes 



fishmong wrote: Jusstin Wilson had already pitched in the game when he brought Hughes in. I think you have valid opinions, but it seems like you make a lot of stretches to "bash" Hurdle.

That was exactly my point.  Wilson should come into the game for the 7th, not Hughes.  He didn't have to use Wilson earlier, he could have used Hughes there.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 10:25 AM

Re: Hughes 


Justin Wilson was brought in in the 5th to face a lefty (Francisco) after Locke had walked two in a row (after Justin Upton's homer).  Justin stayed through the 6th to get another dangerous lefty (Jason Heyward). 

Then in the 8th, Hughes walks a righty (Simmons) and then gets beat with a two run HR by a righty (Gattis). 

If Hurdle had switched Wilson and Hughes (and played lefty-righty and righty-lefty instead), there would be even more complaining -- and rightfully so. 

Hughes got beat.  End of story.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 04/19/2013 10:45 AM

Re: Hughes 


Exactly, cferral almost never considers the actual game when he makes his blanket "it's all Hurdles's fault" statements. Just like he was complaining about the double switch that took Snider out of the game in the WIN OVER THE REDS on Sunday.

I respect your opinions, but you really go all out in your effort to make Hurdle out to be incompetent cferral.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 04/19/2013 11:15 AM

Re: Hughes 


Hurdle doesn't need my help to prove he is incompetent, he does a fine job of that on his own.

And what about Tony Watson?  And btw, I don't hate using Justin Wilson there because of the situation.  That wasn't the point of my post at all.  It was that Hurdle had already decided to have Hughes be the "7th inning guy" before the season started when there were guys with better stuff than him that would be better in late game, high leverage situations.  That was my point.  I think it went over you head.

And as a disclaimer, I like Hughes.  He is a solid sinkerball reliever that can pitch multiple innings, but he is your 5th or 6th option in a bullpen.  He should be used earlier in games to pitch more than an inning, or to come in and try to get out of a jam with a double play.  He definitely has a role and is a useful player.
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Posted: 04/19/2013 11:47 AM

Re: Hughes 


...Hurdle had already decided to have Hughes be the "7th inning guy" before the season started when there were guys with better stuff than him that would be better in late game, high leverage situations. That was my point. I think it went over you head.

I did get you're point, you think Justin Wilson has "better stuff" than Jared Hughes, so he'd be better in the "7th inning" role.

A couple of points, better stuff doesn't make you a better pitcher, and outside of the 8th and 9th innings all middle relief pitchers are fungible. Hughes hadn't pitched in 3 games and had an effective 7th inning(2 SO, 1 BB), so your "7th inning guy" argument doesn't apply in this situation does it? He gave up a HR to Gattis, who is no slouch at the plate, maybe they should have brought in Watson for the 8th, but you had to have some pitchers available in case the game went into extras.

Clearly you can say what you would have done and that's fine, but to me it's just message board managing.
THE IGNORE FUNCTION IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
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Posted: 04/19/2013 11:59 AM

Re: Hughes 



fishmong wrote: ...

Clearly you can say what you would have done and that's fine, but to me it's just message board managing.



If the Braves had scored against Hughes in the 5th/6th -- "Why didn't he bring in a lefty to face the Braves' lefties????"

If the Braves had scored against Tony Watson in the 5th/6th -- "Why didn't he bring in his BEST lefty, Wilson, to pitch to the Braves' lefties in that situation????"

If Gattis had hit his home run against either Wilson or Watson in the 8th -- "Why did he go lefty-righty there????"  

That's the genius of message board managing -- with the benefit of hindsight, you can never be wrong, and can always criticize any move that doesn't work out.

___________

 

  

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