Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
Inbox
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 6  Next >

Pirates Acquire John McDonald

Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 10:08 AM

Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Looks like Mercer is out and Harrison has played his last day at SS.  Hopefully the Pirates aren't paying all 1.5 million for a 38 year old backup infielder that can't hit.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...medium=facebook
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 10:43 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


This is a move that makes no sense at all. McDonald is basically a poor mans Clint Barmes. He's worse on offense however his defense is amazing even at his current age. McDonald is a great clubhouse guy and Pittsburgh will love him. He was always one of the more popular players in Toronto.

That said I just don't understand this move unless it comes at the expense of Josh Harrison. I have my doubts though with Hurdle as the manager. If it costs Mercer a roster spot who has hit for a .368/.552/.526 line thus far in the Spring I just don't get it.

Brandon Inge is done since McDonald is a better defender and can play the middle infield so Inge is pretty redundant. If McDonald is the defensive replacement for Alvarez then between him and Barmes it will be some incredible defense.

I think this is a good move if the player bumped out is Harrison but a bad one if Mercer is the guy to go. To me this is a move I could of just lived without and played the kids. We need to see what Mercer can do at the major league level to see if he's a realistic option for 2014. Sadly I think he's going to get Ciriaco-ed and will probably hit 20 home runs for the Yankees in 2014 replacing Derek Jeter.

Last edited 03/20/2013 10:44 AM by katoy2j

Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 10:48 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



katoy2j wrote:  McDonald is basically a poor mans Clint Barmes


Is there a "crying" emoticon?  flushed
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 10:55 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



katoy2j wrote: Sadly I think he's going to get Ciriaco-ed and will probably hit 20 home runs for the Yankees in 2014 replacing Derek Jeter.

Yep - we will probably just throw him in on the Garrett Jones deal to the Yankees to make another spot on the 40 man roster...
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 11:02 AM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Yeah, I don't get it. Inge is definitely gone. No big loss there. But I hope it doesn't spell the end for Mercer.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 11:09 AM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



burghsports3 wrote: Yeah, I don't get it. Inge is definitely gone. No big loss there. But I hope it doesn't spell the end for Mercer.

Agree with everyone here.  It's not that McDonald isn't still a good defender and, particularly on a strong team, a useful guy to have around.  It's that he is now even less of a hitter than he once was---which is saying something---and more importantly it means that it's The Ciriaco Treatment for Mercer.  Definitely do not agree with this type of move at this point in time.  McDonald is the kind of guy you add to a contender, like Luis Sojo used to be for the Yankees and Rafael Belliard for the Braves.  But the 2013 Pirates?  No way.  The at-bats and playing time should have gone to Mercer. 


I'll say again that moves like this one tell me that the Pirates organization, as currently constructed, most definitely views itself in St. Louis - Cincinnati terms and NOT in Miami - Tampa Bay terms.  In other words as a mid-market peer rather than as a small-market peer.  Now, mind you, if Bob Nutting is really worth what people say he is worth, then I suppose the Pirates---in theory---could play on a more or less level field with the Cardinals, Reds, Twins, et al.  What is crystal clear is that this team, for all of the money and rhetoric expended on developing its own players from within, just doesn't trust its kids unless they are truly elite, can't miss prospects.  In other words, Alvarez-Cole-Taillon good, Mercer-Presley-McPherson-Morris-Wilson bad.  So, if they are consistent, yinz can expect lots of Wandy Rodriguez, kids-for-veterans trades in the future.  I don't have a problem with some deals like that, particularly to put you over the top into true contender status.  But I definitely don't like the way this organization throws so many of its homegrown kids under the bus.  I don't get it.

Last edited 03/21/2013 12:37 PM by williamjpellas

Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 11:38 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


I think a lot of it is the manager. He doesn't really like to play kids.

The biggest problem really though if Frank Connelly. He is the decision maker when it comes to firing. Normally the GM has that axe to hold over the head of the manager. You either do what the GM says or the manager gets canned. The problem with Connelly getting final say is that the GM can't hold the manager accountable. Hurdle is basically a teflon Don. Huntington can't force Hurdle to play the kids and he doesn't have the power to get rid of him and replace him with someone who does.

My only hope here is that this is some kind of concession move where perhaps Huntington said we'll get a veteran for the bench but Mercer has to get a spot and Harrison is the off man out. I highly doubt this is the case however.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 12:32 PM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


This move has stupid written all over it. Is Littlefield back or what.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 12:42 PM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Yeah I will agree with everyone as well. I see absolutely no reason to make this trade. Not one and I mean that.

Just beyond nuts that they acquire this guy.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/20/2013 12:57 PM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



katoy2j wrote: I think a lot of it is the manager. He doesn't really like to play kids.

The biggest problem really though if Frank Connelly. He is the decision maker when it comes to firing. Normally the GM has that axe to hold over the head of the manager. You either do what the GM says or the manager gets canned. The problem with Connelly getting final say is that the GM can't hold the manager accountable. Hurdle is basically a teflon Don. Huntington can't force Hurdle to play the kids and he doesn't have the power to get rid of him and replace him with someone who does.

My only hope here is that this is some kind of concession move where perhaps Huntington said we'll get a veteran for the bench but Mercer has to get a spot and Harrison is the off man out. I highly doubt this is the case however.



Your usual pure conjecture and speculation about the inner-workings of the management team.  You have not one iota of evidence to support the ridiculous notion that Neil Huntington doesn't have the power to call the shots and to make the same decisions that every other general manager in baseball makes on a regular basis.

In the present situation, the decision of who to keep and who to let go is entirely that of NEIL HUNTINGTON.  That's what general managers do -- they decide who is on the team.  

To the extent that it matters, Mercer is hitting .407 this spring, Harrison .276, and Inge .156.

___________

 

  

Last edited 03/20/2013 2:16 PM by gr1111

Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 4:14 PM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Mercer has two options remaining right? Odds are he doesn't get better defensively by sitting on the bench. If you want to groom Mercer to be a utility player then keeping him in a bench role makes sense. If you want him to potentially be the starting SS in 2014 it makes sense to have him play everyday at AAA. He'll probably see time in Pittsburgh at some point regardless of the McDonald signing.

McDonald is the type of guy you want in a reserve role. He provides superb defense SS, 3B, and 2B. His bat is not his best asset but he's not an automatic out either. As a utility IF he was worth about 1 win last season in Arizona. I'm guessing McDonald means Inge won't get a spot on the Major League roster.
Reply | Quote
  • kdog341
  • Member
  • 419 posts this site

Posted: 03/20/2013 6:31 PM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



fishmong wrote: Mercer has two options remaining right? Odds are he doesn't get better defensively by sitting on the bench. If you want to groom Mercer to be a utility player then keeping him in a bench role makes sense. If you want him to potentially be the starting SS in 2014 it makes sense to have him play everyday at AAA. He'll probably see time in Pittsburgh at some point regardless of the McDonald signing.

McDonald is the type of guy you want in a reserve role. He provides superb defense SS, 3B, and 2B. His bat is not his best asset but he's not an automatic out either. As a utility IF he was worth about 1 win last season in Arizona. I'm guessing McDonald means Inge won't get a spot on the Major League roster.

that is my thinking as well. Maybe Clint and Neil have decided to have Mercer start the year in AAA instead of beeing the 25th man. They can keep harrison who can play of in a pinch and have McDonald as the main utility guy.



Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/20/2013 9:06 PM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Mercer is already a fine defensive shortstop. He will be 27 this year so keeping him in AAA makes little sense to me. He needs to be given a chance even in a reserve role to showcase himself at the major league level so we can see if he can hit enough to be an option as the starting shortstop in 2014. If he was 22 it would make sense to send him to AAA however at his age AAA performance means nothing. 200 at bats in the majors are much more beneficial to him than 600 in AAA. If he plays in the minors he's a complete question mark for 2014.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 5:40 AM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


...but his presence is so veterany.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 5:57 AM

Re: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: ...but his presence is so veterany.

lol yes, yes he is.

This trade makes zero sense at all, on any level.  The only way I can tolerate it is if he is the 5th man on the bench that barley plays (just a late inning defensive replacement) and Mercer is still the primary backup middle-infielder.  But, I really like De Jesus and this basically guarantees he has no role on the team at all this season.  Then, why acquire him?  The Pirates tendency to sign aging veterans to play the bench is troubling to me.  Go with the young guys with more upside.  Apparently the organization is content with going into 2014 with no idea about any of the young shortstops.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 6:26 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



katoy2j wrote: Mercer is already a fine defensive shortstop. He will be 27 this year so keeping him in AAA makes little sense to me. He needs to be given a chance even in a reserve role to showcase himself at the major league level so we can see if he can hit enough to be an option as the starting shortstop in 2014. If he was 22 it would make sense to send him to AAA however at his age AAA performance means nothing. 200 at bats in the majors are much more beneficial to him than 600 in AAA. If he plays in the minors he's a complete question mark for 2014.
He didn't stand out in the games I went to last season, but I'm no scout. I now he's older but he has options left and isn't going to be the starter. I'd rather see him play everyday in AAA than be a pinch hit and maybe start once in a while. Odds are he will get over 150 AB's in the majors this season between Walker's bad back and Barmes turning 35 this year.

For what it's worth the fine folks at MLBDEPTHCHARTS have Harrison and McDonald on the 25. I prefer Harrison to Mercer in the utility role because he can play OF and he doesn't have a real shot to be a starter. His development won't be altered as he is a guy that will likely be a bench player his whole career.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 6:28 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



fishmong wrote:
katoy2j wrote: Mercer is already a fine defensive shortstop. He will be 27 this year so keeping him in AAA makes little sense to me. He needs to be given a chance even in a reserve role to showcase himself at the major league level so we can see if he can hit enough to be an option as the starting shortstop in 2014. If he was 22 it would make sense to send him to AAA however at his age AAA performance means nothing. 200 at bats in the majors are much more beneficial to him than 600 in AAA. If he plays in the minors he's a complete question mark for 2014.
He didn't stand out in the games I went to last season, but I'm no scout. I now he's older but he has options left and isn't going to be the starter. I'd rather see him play everyday in AAA than be a pinch hit and maybe start once in a while. Odds are he will get over 150 AB's in the majors this season between Walker's bad back and Barmes turning 35 this year.

For what it's worth the fine folks at MLBDEPTHCHARTS have Harrison and McDonald on the 25. I prefer Harrison to Mercer in the utility role because he can play OF and he doesn't have a real shot to be a starter. His development won't be altered as he is a guy that will likely be a bench player his whole career.
That is a loose interpretation of the term OF lol.  He is brutal in the field anywhere but 3rd and 2nd base.  I'll take Mercer's glove and power.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 03/21/2013 6:35 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


He didn't stand out in the games I went to last season, but I'm no scout. I now he's older but he has options left and isn't going to be the starter. I'd rather see him play everyday in AAA than be a pinch hit and maybe start once in a while. Odds are he will get over 150 AB's in the majors this season between Walker's bad back and Barmes turning 35 this year.

For what it's worth the fine folks at MLBDEPTHCHARTS have Harrison and McDonald on the 25. I prefer Harrison to Mercer in the utility role because he can play OF and he doesn't have a real shot to be a starter. His development won't be altered as he is a guy that will likely be a bench player his whole career.


This is a pretty good analysis, I think.  The only question for me is whether Mercer could sort-of fake it as the starter at short for a couple of seasons.  My guess is that he could, and that his "hitting" would not be far from what Barmes has done in most years in his career.  Basically a .240ish guy who adds a little bit more power than most glove-first SS's.  Now, with Barmes you can live with that because his defense is very good if not better than that.  Mercer, unfortunately, while still probably better than average with his glovework, is no Barmes---at least, he hasn't looked like that to this point.  Thus his future at the big league level is almost certainly utilityman and no more than that. 

 

 

However, there is still a little bit of uncertainty.  Some guys rise to the occasion when they finally get a shot.  I would definitely much rather have Mercer than Harrison as an infield utilityman, but now that job is obviously McDonald's.  Thus Harrison makes the team as a 3B-2B-OF-pinch hitter type, and McDonald is the all-purpose defensive replacement.  But geez Louise, surely at some point you have to give Mercer a couple hundred AB's, don't you?  To be sure he isn't a starter, if nothing else, right?  This organization really doesn't like its kids, I'm dead serious. 

Last edited 03/21/2013 6:37 AM by williamjpellas

Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 6:43 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 



williamjpellas wrote:


  This organization really doesn't like its kids, I'm dead serious. 

If they sign a catcher, I'll be flabbergasted.  While I'm not sold on Sanchez, I at least want to see what he's got.  If one of our catchers goes down and we sign a cheap veteran to fill in, I'm going to lose my mind...
Reply | Quote

Posted: 03/21/2013 6:44 AM

RE: Pirates Acquire John McDonald 


Where are you guys getting Mercer's "power" from. I haven't followed the Pirates system until last year, but I didn't see Mercer hit for much power in the games I went to last season. I looked at his minor league numbers and I see he slugged .487 in 300 AB when he repeated AA in 2011 but outside of that he's been .366, .400, .373, .385, and .421.
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 6  Next >