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Todays Spring Game

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Posted: 03/18/2013 2:41 PM

Todays Spring Game 


I was at the game today against the Bo Sox.
Half the regulars played,
Martin caught and looked dreadful at the plate. First 2 at bats, 6 pitches, 2K's. Then popped out to the catcher with a runner on 3rd and 1 out. Terrible. 
Gaby at 1st and hit the game winning HR.
Walker at 2nd and hit the first pitch he seen in the wind to right center for a HR.
Pedro at 3rd, nothing special but he really looks great and confident.
Marte in CF. Double down the line and a great sliding catch in the OF.

Marte, as I said before, is a flat out stud, and he looks the part too. I expect big, big things from this kid. You can kiss Hawpe goodbye, he looks terrible at the plate. IMO, Pie is making a run at the 5th outfield spot. Also, Inge has no shot to take over Jay Harrisons spot.

DeJesus played SS. I like this kid for a utility guy down the road.

Jay Mac looked the same as he always does. Terrible start, throwing 25 pitches in the first. Then settled down and gave up 4 total hits through 5. However, probably tossed 75 pitches to get there. Same ole Jay Mac. Grilli tossed a very clean inning that lasted 2 minutes. 1 - 2 - 3.

All and all, the bats suck so far this spring except for  Gaby Sanchez, and S Marte. Sanchez has 4 HR's now. Going to be hard to sit him sometimes. He does have that power swing. Would be nice if he can bat at least 260 with it.

Just my 2 cents.
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Posted: 03/18/2013 2:57 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Thanks!
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Posted: 03/18/2013 3:07 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Sanchez was nothing spectacular when he was with the Marlins, but he had back to back solid-average seasons.  He's still young enough that he should be capable of similar numbers in Pittsburgh if he gets enough playing time.  I think he might, given that he will probably be playing some 3B against lefthanders, and given that Garrett Jones has an oblique strain right now, opening up additional playing time for Sanchez vs righthanders at 1B.  If Sanchez has a career year, they may opt to trade Jones and make Sanchez the regular 1B going forward, rather than hand the gig to some combination of Sands and Robinson either late this season or in 2014.  Nice to have some options at any rate.
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Posted: 03/18/2013 4:13 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


If Jones and Sanchez both have a good first half, we could potentially get something for one of them in a trade, no?
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 03/18/2013 5:17 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


DeJesus is interesting.  Maybe he's the 2B-SS backup and Harrison is 3B-OF?  I just wish they could both hit a little more.
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Posted: 03/18/2013 5:33 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



Sangue wrote: DeJesus is interesting.  Maybe he's the 2B-SS backup and Harrison is 3B-OF?  I just wish they could both hit a little more.

I really like De Jesus, with Mercer there probably isn't a spot on the team for him with Hurdle loving Harrison so much.  I like Harrison also, I just really think I would keep De Jesus over him at this point.  He looks like a better version of the two.
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Posted: 03/19/2013 7:54 AM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


I'm really excited to see what Marte can do over the course of an entire season. He certainly looks the part. He's a potential 20/20 guy for sure. And if Snyder can become the player that many think he can be, we'll have a super outfield for years to come




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.

Last edited 03/19/2013 7:59 AM by burghsports3

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Posted: 03/19/2013 10:01 AM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Marte instantly makes Cutch the second best defensive outfielder on the team, and really is a true center fielder. Not sure how that will work with Cutch if they would move him to left. Either way, few balls will drop on the left side of the outfield. Add if Tabata can hit and get playing time, think of the speed out there.
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Posted: 03/19/2013 10:36 AM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Eh, Tabata. As far as I'm concerened, Tabata has a lot to prove before I trust him as an everyday outfielder. If you're talking about speed, then you mean Presley. That kid's got some wheels. Not saying he should be the right fielder, just saying he'd beat Tabata in a foot race for sure. Tabata, to me, is looking like another Lastings Milledge. And if you ask me who I'd rather have on the team between Tabata and Presley, it's Presley, hands down.

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--- Blitz36 wrote:

Marte instantly makes Cutch the second best defensive outfielder on the team, and really is a true center fielder. Not sure how that will work with Cutch if they would move him to left. Either way, few balls will drop on the left side of the outfield. Add if Tabata can hit and get playing time, think of the speed out there.

---------------------------------------------




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.

Last edited 03/19/2013 10:46 AM by burghsports3

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Posted: 03/19/2013 12:03 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Eh, Tabata. As far as I'm concerened, Tabata has a lot to prove before I trust him as an everyday outfielder. If you're talking about speed, then you mean Presley. That kid's got some wheels. Not saying he should be the right fielder, just saying he'd beat Tabata in a foot race for sure. Tabata, to me, is looking like another Lastings Milledge. And if you ask me who I'd rather have on the team between Tabata and Presley, it's Presley, hands down.


I agree with this sentiment.  Presley, right now, to my eyes is the better player and is more of a finished product.  Tabata, in theory, still has a higher ceiling, though it remains to seen if he will ever reach it.  Now, if we're talking about the Tabata we saw when he first came up---a guy who will probably hit in the high .200s or low .300s with a lot of doubles, some stolen bases, and who will also give you good defense---then yes, I would rather see him than either Presley or Snider out there in right.  A defensive outfield with McCutchen, Marte, and Tabata left to right would be phenomenally good, easily the best in the National League and probably in all of baseball.  Assuming Marte's hitting develops as expected, you could afford to carry a less-than-traditional-hitting right fielder in Tabata.  However, if Marte spits the bit, and/or if Tabata gets hurt again, it definitely opens the door for Presley and also for Snider.  I still think the Pirates would prefer than Tabata rises to the top.  I think they took a flyer on Snider and would of course be happy if he forced them to make a decision because he was playing so well, but I think they still prefer Tabata.
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Posted: 03/19/2013 12:12 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


I think you are exactly right about management hoping Tabata earns the job, William.

If you think about it -- with both Cutch and Marte already under control for quite some time, we would have our outfield set for at least the next 5 years or so if Tabata breaks out.  With studs in the minors behind them!  What a  dream that would be!
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 03/19/2013 12:30 PM

RE: Todays Spring Game 


The outfield in Atlanta will be pretty good defensively in the National League, but the best outfield defenses in all of baseball have to be in Anaheim and Cleveland. Bourn and Stubbs are gold glove caliber CF's and Brantley will be excellent as a LF. Trout would be the CF in Anaheim if Bourjous wasn't so good. Bourjous moved Torri Hunter out of CF, and Hamilton will be above average on the corner.

In the games I went to last season Tabata really underwhelmed me in all facets of the game, including defense. I'm rooting for Snider, he has a real chance to break out. Going into his age 25 season his overall numbers aren't as bad as you might assume they would be. In 963 AB he has an OPS+ of 94. He's been below league average but not by much. This should be his first year getting regular playing time. I'm very bullish on Travis Snider.
Blame it on "a certain someone"
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Posted: 03/19/2013 2:47 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



GhostOfPBG wrote: I think you are exactly right about management hoping Tabata earns the job, William.

If you think about it -- with both Cutch and Marte already under control for quite some time, we would have our outfield set for at least the next 5 years or so if Tabata breaks out.  With studs in the minors behind them!  What a  dream that would be!

Of course management wants Tabata to win the right field job. Or "earn" it as you stated. Tabata was the centerpiece of NH's first big trade. Neil wants to prove to people that he was right. I remember how he was glowing at the press conference after the trade when he was commenting on Tabata. Plus, they signed him to that ridiculous contract which COULD end up hurting us in the long run. Tabata will be given every oppurtunity to show that he doesn't deserve to be the right fielder. I just hope that we can trade him so we can rid ourselves of that insane contract that he signed.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 03/19/2013 3:52 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



burghsports3 wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: I think you are exactly right about management hoping Tabata earns the job, William.

If you think about it -- with both Cutch and Marte already under control for quite some time, we would have our outfield set for at least the next 5 years or so if Tabata breaks out.  With studs in the minors behind them!  What a  dream that would be!

Of course management wants Tabata to win the right field job. Or "earn" it as you stated. Tabata was the centerpiece of NH's first big trade. Neil wants to prove to people that he was right. I remember how he was glowing at the press conference after the trade when he was commenting on Tabata. Plus, they signed him to that ridiculous contract which COULD end up hurting us in the long run. Tabata will be given every oppurtunity to show that he doesn't deserve to be the right fielder. I just hope that we can trade him so we can rid ourselves of that insane contract that he signed.
I guess we will agree to disagree on the definition of an insane contract.  A 6 year, $14.5 million contract doesn't strike me as ridiculous when you planned on this guy being your everyday right-fielder.

If he hits .300, draws some walks, plays solid defense and steals some bases, it actually looks like an awesome deal to me.

ETA: I'd also add that even if Tabata dropped over dead tomorrow, we still won that trade.  Jeff Karstens ended up being the most productive player in the entire transaction.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13

Last edited 03/19/2013 3:55 PM by GhostOfPBG

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Posted: 03/19/2013 4:21 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
burghsports3 wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: I think you are exactly right about management hoping Tabata earns the job, William.

If you think about it -- with both Cutch and Marte already under control for quite some time, we would have our outfield set for at least the next 5 years or so if Tabata breaks out.  With studs in the minors behind them!  What a  dream that would be!

Of course management wants Tabata to win the right field job. Or "earn" it as you stated. Tabata was the centerpiece of NH's first big trade. Neil wants to prove to people that he was right. I remember how he was glowing at the press conference after the trade when he was commenting on Tabata. Plus, they signed him to that ridiculous contract which COULD end up hurting us in the long run. Tabata will be given every oppurtunity to show that he doesn't deserve to be the right fielder. I just hope that we can trade him so we can rid ourselves of that insane contract that he signed.
I guess we will agree to disagree on the definition of an insane contract.  A 6 year, $14.5 million contract doesn't strike me as ridiculous when you planned on this guy being your everyday right-fielder.

If he hits .300, draws some walks, plays solid defense and steals some bases, it actually looks like an awesome deal to me.

ETA: I'd also add that even if Tabata dropped over dead tomorrow, we still won that trade.  Jeff Karstens ended up being the most productive player in the entire transaction.
I agree that we won that trade. Karstens has done well. Ohlendorf also did well before he injured his shoulder. McCutchen and Tabata had their moments also.

But, back to Tabata. Sorry, but I don't see him hitting .300, playing solid defense or stealing bases. The contract is bad when you consider that he could be playing in the minors for the last 2 or 3 years of it (not sure if it's guaranteed or not, or if there are clauses pertaining to what level he is playing at)- hopefully not with this organization. Presley is a better player than Tabata. Hopefully, management will realize that this year and put the politics aside. It would be best for the Pirates.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.

Last edited 03/19/2013 6:44 PM by burghsports3

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Posted: 03/19/2013 5:14 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


Sure, he could be playing in the minors in a few years.  He could also be our leadoff hitter, and a good one at that. 

I take it you aren't a big Tabata fan biggrin
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 03/19/2013 6:41 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



GhostOfPBG wrote: Sure, he could be playing in the minors in a few years.  He could also be our leadoff hitter, and a good one at that. 

I take it you aren't a big Tabata fan biggrin

No, not really. I've soured on him the past couple of years. I think Presley is a better player, but management seems to be hell-bent on letting Tabata prove that he isn't what they thought he was. "Lastings Milledge II" as I like to call him. There's nothing there.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.

Last edited 03/19/2013 6:42 PM by burghsports3

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Posted: 03/19/2013 7:24 PM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



burghsports3 wrote:
GhostOfPBG wrote: Sure, he could be playing in the minors in a few years.  He could also be our leadoff hitter, and a good one at that. 

I take it you aren't a big Tabata fan biggrin

No, not really. I've soured on him the past couple of years. I think Presley is a better player, but management seems to be hell-bent on letting Tabata prove that he isn't what they thought he was. "Lastings Milledge II" as I like to call him. There's nothing there.

What is your basis for this?  As bad as Tabata was last season at the plate, Presley was just as bad (or worse).  Presley is the slightly better glove man, but Tabata has a better arm.  Plus, Presley turns 28 during the season this year, at this point he is what he is, a 4th outfielder.  Tabata only turns 25 in August and has the skillset of a top prospect.  Right now (based on last year) they are equal players, however, Tabata has the much higher upside.  All things being equal, the Pirates need to always stick with the guy who has the most upside.

And if Snider is your starting RF with Marte in LF, Presley doesn't really make sense on the bench.  Snider is the only one of the 3 that is going to get a significant amount of days off and he is left-handed.  Tabata can step in as a righty that does a good job against lefties when they decide to rest Snider.  Also, we don't need our 4th outfielder to be able to play centerfield since Marte will just slide over when Cutch needs a day off.  I don't want to dump Presley, I just think you go with Tabata on the bench (or part-time starter) and keep Presley in AAA should there be an injury to one of the two centerfielders.

Last edited 03/19/2013 7:24 PM by cferrel3

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Posted: 03/20/2013 5:50 AM

Re: Todays Spring Game 


My basis is my eyes. I watch the two play and I see that Presley is a better player. I'm not saying that Presley is a future Hall of Famer, I'm simply saying that he is a better player than Tabata.

I must say, I don't understand all of your enthusiasm for Tabata. He's a corner outfielder with no power, average speed, and average (at best) hitting skills. He's also average to below average defensively. You talk about his "skillset of a top prospect" and "high upside." What are you basing THIS on? Baseball America? Sorry, I just don't see it.

You also said that the Pirates "must stick with the guys with the most upside." Gerrit Cole has the most upside of any pitcher in the system, yet you stated on other threads that it was a good move to send him to Triple-A. According to your logic, Cole should have made the big league club. My opinion is that the Pirates should "stick with" the guys that give the team the best chance to win. After 20 straight losing seasons, upside (of which Tabata has very little) is secondary to me.

Also, you make a case for Tabata based on the fact that he bats right-handed, so therefore he is a better guy to have as a fourth outfielder over the left-handed batting Presley. You make this assumption based on the fact that Snyder would be platooned in right field and we would need a right-handed half to complete the platoon. I get it, but that alone should not be a reason for Tababta to make the team. The guy needs to produce, and the fact is, he has done very little of that.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 03/20/2013 6:31 AM

Re: Todays Spring Game 



burghsports3 wrote: My basis is my eyes. I watch the two play and I see that Presley is a better player. I'm not saying that Presley is a future Hall of Famer, I'm simply saying that he is a better player than Tabata.

I must say, I don't understand all of your enthusiasm for Tabata. He's a corner outfielder with no power, average speed, and average (at best) hitting skills. He's also average to below average defensively. You talk about his "skillset of a top prospect" and "high upside." What are you basing THIS on? Baseball America? Sorry, I just don't see it.

You also said that the Pirates "must stick with the guys with the most upside." Gerrit Cole has the most upside of any pitcher in the system, yet you stated on other threads that it was a good move to send him to Triple-A. According to your logic, Cole should have made the big league club. My opinion is that the Pirates should "stick with" the guys that give the team the best chance to win. After 20 straight losing seasons, upside (of which Tabata has very little) is secondary to me.

Also, you make a case for Tabata based on the fact that he bats right-handed, so therefore he is a better guy to have as a fourth outfielder over the left-handed batting Presley. You make this assumption based on the fact that Snyder would be platooned in right field and we would need a right-handed half to complete the platoon. I get it, but that alone should not be a reason for Tababta to make the team. The guy needs to produce, and the fact is, he has done very little of that.


Good points, in my opinion.  I do think that Tabata could turn it around with a better attitude and show much more productivity than he has so far.  It would be great for the team if he does.  But so far my eyes see the same thing that your have -- not all that much.

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