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Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option)

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Posted: 02/18/2013 8:55 AM

Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


I ask that you include Katoy in your prayers during this very difficult time for him... 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...medium=facebook

Last edited 02/18/2013 8:56 AM by Sangue

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Posted: 02/18/2013 9:03 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


Katoy -- please post a picture of yourself, now that your head has exploded!

___________

 

  

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Posted: 02/18/2013 9:07 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


This isn't unusual, you never want your manager to be managing under a one year contract, it sets the tone of instability.  They just simply extended him to a two year deal, has nothing to do with performance.  If the team collapses again or struggles early, I still think he gets fired.  If the team succeeds then the team already has him signed for next season.
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Posted: 02/18/2013 9:29 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


Clint Hurdle

Pirates to extend Clint Hurdle through 2014

The Pirates will reportedly extend manager Clint Hurdle through 2014, with the option to retain him for 2015. The Pirates finished 79-83 in 2012, their best record since 1997. Since Hurdle joined the team in 2011, the Pirates have gone 151-173. Full Story | Discuss

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Posted: 02/18/2013 10:13 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


I'm at a loss for words.
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Posted: 02/18/2013 10:35 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


I can't imagine that being possible.

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--- katoy2j wrote:

I'm at a loss for words.

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I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 02/18/2013 12:32 PM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


I too think heads will roll if they don't win this season, but I don't think Hurdle's will be the first to go (if at all).

All speculation though.



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--- cferrel3 wrote:

This isn't unusual, you never want your manager to be managing under a one year contract, it sets the tone of instability.  They just simply extended him to a two year deal, has nothing to do with performance.  If the team collapses again or struggles early, I still think he gets fired.  If the team succeeds then the team already has him signed for next season.

---------------------------------------------

___________

 

  

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Posted: 02/18/2013 12:39 PM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


If I read Bob Nutting's post-2012-collapse comments the right way, I think we're looking at a complete housecleaning of the entire front office if the Pirates nosedive in 2013.  If so, what I'm most interested in seeing is whether Nutting poop-cans Coonelly along with Opie and everyone associated with him.  I've been operating with a "Coonelly Is Bud Selig's Consigliere" theory for a long time now.  If Coonelly survives what is otherwise a top to bottom coup d'etat, then I'd say he really is Selig's boy and is actually an employee of the Commissioner's Office regardless of whether anybody will admit to that or not.  If Coonelly walks the plank along with everybody else, then either my theory was wrong, or else Coonelly dug his own grave with his DUI arrest and with his numerous public gaffes.
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Posted: 02/18/2013 1:01 PM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


If Huntington goes then Hurdle will be gone as well. Huntington might go first but no GM worth a darn would ever agree to a job without the right to hire their own manager.

I hate the move because I would of just fired Hurdle now and all this move did was guarantee him more money. It doesn't really alter anything though. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things Hurdle makes a small salary. I would be surprised if it's over a million dollars. This was simply done to remove the whole "lame duck" manager title.

If the Pirates struggle early on in the year (early to mid May) then Hurdle will be fired and they will have an interm manager for the remainder of the season. They won't fire Huntington because you can't fire a GM before the draft. If come July the team record hasn't improved then it's possible Huntington would get fired then. They probably don't want a GM running the trade deadline when everyone knows if he doesn't get past .500 he would be gone. You can't allow a move to be made that would be a desperation move by the GM to save his job.

There is a 0% chance that Hurdle sees a new full time GM after this season. Huntington can still stick around if Hurdle gets canned early and the team improves otherwise he will be gone also.

Would put the odds as follows

Hurdle gets fired in May, interm manager and team improves the team and team finishes above .500. Huntington retained for 2014 - 25%

Hurdle gets fired in May, interm manager and team doesn't improve and Huntington is fired in July - 25%

Both Hurdle and Huntington are kept through the year or till the point of the year it appears the team won't finish above .500 and both are let go before the 2014 season or late in the 2013 season. - 20%

Both Hurdle and Huntington are kept through the year and the team finishes above .500. Both are brought back for 2014 - 30%

So in terms of odds to return in 2014 I have Hurdle at 30% and Huntington at 55%

I see no possible way however that Hurdle can be back in 2014 unless Huntington is the GM.

Last edited 02/18/2013 1:04 PM by katoy2j

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Posted: 02/18/2013 2:26 PM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 



gr1111 wrote: I too think heads will roll if they don't win this season, but I don't think Hurdle's will be the first to go (if at all).

All speculation though.



---------------------------------------------
--- cferrel3 wrote:

This isn't unusual, you never want your manager to be managing under a one year contract, it sets the tone of instability.  They just simply extended him to a two year deal, has nothing to do with performance.  If the team collapses again or struggles early, I still think he gets fired.  If the team succeeds then the team already has him signed for next season.

---------------------------------------------

Hurdle would absolutely be the one to go first because if the team is struggling Huntington would fire him quick, fast, and in a hurry to try to save his own job.  If the team still didn't improve then Huntington would be let go later in the season, simultaneously with Hurdle (if he doesn't fire him), or in the offseason.

So if the team tanks again in the second half, there will ultimately be more than one person that will lose their job, but I think Hurdle would be the first to go.
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Posted: 02/18/2013 2:28 PM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


Is the option year the Pirates option or Hurdle's?
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Posted: 02/18/2013 5:11 PM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


Hurdle hasn't been "rebuilding" for almost six years. Fairly or unfairly, Huntington takes the fall if the team doesn't win.

That said, Hurdle also goes if he loses the team.

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--- cferrel3 wrote:


gr1111 wrote: I too think heads will roll if they don't win this season, but I don't think Hurdle's will be the first to go (if at all).

All speculation though.



---------------------------------------------
--- cferrel3 wrote:

This isn't unusual, you never want your manager to be managing under a one year contract, it sets the tone of instability.  They just simply extended him to a two year deal, has nothing to do with performance.  If the team collapses again or struggles early, I still think he gets fired.  If the team succeeds then the team already has him signed for next season.

---------------------------------------------

Hurdle would absolutely be the one to go first because if the team is struggling Huntington would fire him quick, fast, and in a hurry to try to save his own job.  If the team still didn't improve then Huntington would be let go later in the season, simultaneously with Hurdle (if he doesn't fire him), or in the offseason.

So if the team tanks again in the second half, there will ultimately be more than one person that will lose their job, but I think Hurdle would be the first to go.

---------------------------------------------

___________

 

  

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Posted: 02/19/2013 7:04 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


I dont see NH getting fired. I think if the Pirates struggle it will all be put on Hurdle. I think NH will explain how mcuh the minors have improved and state the collapse is Hurdles fault not his. I think NH will excape and put his firing at about 10%. I also think that the Pirates will have to tank again or win less than 70 games for Hurdle to get fired and I dont see im getting fired until after the season if he does.
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Posted: 02/19/2013 7:33 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 



The last time we elected to keep a lame duck GM we wound up with Moskos and Morris. I still maintain that both decisions were made out of spite.
---------------------------------------------
--- katoy2j wrote:

If Huntington goes then Hurdle will be gone as well. Huntington might go first but no GM worth a darn would ever agree to a job without the right to hire their own manager.

I hate the move because I would of just fired Hurdle now and all this move did was guarantee him more money. It doesn't really alter anything though. I'm sure in the grand scheme of things Hurdle makes a small salary. I would be surprised if it's over a million dollars. This was simply done to remove the whole "lame duck" manager title.

If the Pirates struggle early on in the year (early to mid May) then Hurdle will be fired and they will have an interm manager for the remainder of the season. They won't fire Huntington because you can't fire a GM before the draft. If come July the team record hasn't improved then it's possible Huntington would get fired then. They probably don't want a GM running the trade deadline when everyone knows if he doesn't get past .500 he would be gone. You can't allow a move to be made that would be a desperation move by the GM to save his job.

There is a 0% chance that Hurdle sees a new full time GM after this season. Huntington can still stick around if Hurdle gets canned early and the team improves otherwise he will be gone also.

Would put the odds as follows

Hurdle gets fired in May, interm manager and team improves the team and team finishes above .500. Huntington retained for 2014 - 25%

Hurdle gets fired in May, interm manager and team doesn't improve and Huntington is fired in July - 25%

Both Hurdle and Huntington are kept through the year or till the point of the year it appears the team won't finish above .500 and both are let go before the 2014 season or late in the 2013 season. - 20%

Both Hurdle and Huntington are kept through the year and the team finishes above .500. Both are brought back for 2014 - 30%

So in terms of odds to return in 2014 I have Hurdle at 30% and Huntington at 55%

I see no possible way however that Hurdle can be back in 2014 unless Huntington is the GM.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 02/19/2013 8:03 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 



abitoutside wrote:
The last time we elected to keep a lame duck GM we wound up with Moskos and Morris. I still maintain that both decisions were made out of spite.
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Agreed.  I don't think Littlefield was allowed to take Wieters, then knowing his fate was sealed, spent the $9 million on Morris.  He didn't even bother to ask the Cardinals to pick up part of Morris' contract.
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Posted: 02/19/2013 8:10 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 



Sangue wrote:
abitoutside wrote:
The last time we elected to keep a lame duck GM we wound up with Moskos and Morris. I still maintain that both decisions were made out of spite.
---------------------------------------------

Agreed.  I don't think Littlefield was allowed to take Wieters, then knowing his fate was sealed, spent the $9 million on Morris.  He didn't even bother to ask the Cardinals to pick up part of Morris' contract.

*Giants

And on top of that he let them have Rajai Davis, who although was never a star, was/is a pretty solid fourth outfielder that provides very good speed and great defense.
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Posted: 02/19/2013 8:54 AM

RE: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


The Pirates actually developed a handful of useful-or-better center fielders all at once in the early 2000s.  Davis was one of them.  The other three were Nate McLouth, Chris Duffy, and Nyjer Morgan.  No superstars among those names and of course Duffy washed out with mental-emotional issues, but all could play the game.  I never could understand why the Pirates gave Davis away; Morgan was traded but that deal brought Joel Hanrahan here so you can't complain about that.  The return on the McLouth deal wasn't as solid, but the returns aren't complete there. 


Anyway, the idea that Littlefield made the Morris and Moskos deals out of spite never occurred to me.  I wouldn't be surprised, I'll say that.

Last edited 02/19/2013 8:54 AM by williamjpellas

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Posted: 02/19/2013 9:30 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


At the time, the prevailing attitude in Pirate World was that Davis had great speed but nothing else (including any ability to hit enough to get on base to use his speed).

I think Littlefield thought that giving away Davis was no big deal, since he would never make it in the majors anyway.

Just one of many blunders on his part.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 02/19/2013 10:24 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 



gr1111 wrote: At the time, the prevailing attitude in Pirate World was that Davis had great speed but nothing else (including any ability to hit enough to get on base to use his speed).

I think Littlefield thought that giving away Davis was no big deal, since he would never make it in the majors anyway.

Just one of many blunders on his part.

Yeah, definitely a blunder.

Not like Davis was a star or anything, but he had two pretty darn good seasons at age 28 and 29 with the A's as a full-time starter, including his age 28 season where he hit over .300 and stole 50 bases.
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Posted: 02/19/2013 10:35 AM

Re: Pirates to Extend Hurdle Through 2014 (with a 2015 option) 


We could have used him as a pinch runner to steal a base in the late innings, even if he was as bad as Littlefield thought he was (wrong).

Again, though, I think Littlefield thought of him as just a warm body.  You can't really have a "trade" unless the teams swap players.  So the Pirates needed a warm body to swap for Morris.

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