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Performance Enhancing Drugs

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Posted: 01/30/2013 7:03 AM

Performance Enhancing Drugs 


MLB needs to crack down further of PEDs.  I suggest:

(1) First time offense: 100 game suspension + playing at the league minimum for one year after for the team with the worst record from the prior season.  Any prior contract is voided.

(2) Second time offense: 162 game suspension + playing at the league minimum for three years after for the team with the worst record from each prior season.  The player could play for 3 different teams if each year has a different team with the worst losing record.  Any prior contract is voided.

(3) Third time offense:  Banned for life from the game.

You have to hit them hard in the pocketbook.

A-Rod story
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/...medium=facebook
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Posted: 01/30/2013 7:18 AM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


The Union might go for longer suspensions.  But no way would then agree to salary decreases.  Even if the players agreed to it, their agents never would.

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Posted: 01/30/2013 7:29 AM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



gr1111 wrote: The Union might go for longer suspensions.  But no way would then agree to salary decreases.  Even if the players agreed to it, their agents never would.
You may be right but I think the tide has turned where now maybe 20% of the players use PEDs where it may have been 60-70% a few years back.  I'd imagine most players
are tired of cheaters like A-Rod having 9 figure contracts.  I think the vote would be much different today than it was a few years back.

If management and players agree, there is not much the agents can do.
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Posted: 01/30/2013 9:15 AM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



Sangue wrote:
gr1111 wrote: The Union might go for longer suspensions.  But no way would then agree to salary decreases.  Even if the players agreed to it, their agents never would.
You may be right but I think the tide has turned where now maybe 20% of the players use PEDs where it may have been 60-70% a few years back.  I'd imagine most players
are tired of cheaters like A-Rod having 9 figure contracts.  I think the vote would be much different today than it was a few years back.

If management and players agree, there is not much the agents can do.


I want to agree with you, because it would be best for the game.

But the players' union is run by the agents, and so I don't think "the players" will ever agree to the kinds of salary restrictions you suggested.

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Posted: 01/30/2013 1:29 PM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


I think foreign players caught cheating should be deported.  If you are here as an engineer on a work visa, what would happen if they found out you didn't really have the qualifications you claimed on your resume?  You'd be on the next flight out....
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 01/30/2013 4:05 PM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



GhostOfPBG wrote: I think foreign players caught cheating should be deported.  If you are here as an engineer on a work visa, what would happen if they found out you didn't really have the qualifications you claimed on your resume?  You'd be on the next flight out....
I agree 1000%.
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Posted: 01/30/2013 5:23 PM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


You can't be deporting people. Using PED's isn't against the law. Should we be arresting basketball players after a certain number of flagrant fouls? What if that player was clean when he started but only started using drugs when they got to America. Have any of you guys been to the Dominican or Cuba? Those guys aren't using PED's there. They can't afford if and they're as skinny as a toothpick. It's not till they get to America that they bulk up. Look at a guy like Gregory Polanco. He was listed at 6'4 and 155 prior to last season.

Perhaps the players who use PED's should be suing America because that makes about as much sense. People in the Dominican can't afford food never mind PED's,
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Posted: 01/30/2013 6:34 PM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


I dont think you can deport them unless its an illegal substance. But I do think that the penalty should be 100 games for the 1st offense plus a post season ban for 2 years. The second should be a 162 game suspension and a 4 year postseason ban. Plus with the second offense the team should be able to void the players contact if the team wants. 3rd hit is a lifetime ban.

That is if you get caught in the minors or ML. The post season ban does not start until the end of your suspension or from the day you accumulate 100 days on a ML level roster
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Posted: 01/30/2013 7:52 PM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



katoy2j wrote: You can't be deporting people. Using PED's isn't against the law. Should we be arresting basketball players after a certain number of flagrant fouls? What if that player was clean when he started but only started using drugs when they got to America. Have any of you guys been to the Dominican or Cuba? Those guys aren't using PED's there. They can't afford if and they're as skinny as a toothpick. It's not till they get to America that they bulk up. Look at a guy like Gregory Polanco. He was listed at 6'4 and 155 prior to last season.

Perhaps the players who use PED's should be suing America because that makes about as much sense. People in the Dominican can't afford food never mind PED's,
Actually, without a prescription... yes it is.
#fringeprospect
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Posted: 01/31/2013 3:53 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


It depends on the substance. Some yes, others no.

The penalties should come from baseball (suspensions, bans).



And I think the Latin players should only sue Canada, not America. Ha



---------------------------------------------
--- TBayXXXVII wrote:


katoy2j wrote: You can't be deporting people. Using PED's isn't against the law. Should we be arresting basketball players after a certain number of flagrant fouls? What if that player was clean when he started but only started using drugs when they got to America. Have any of you guys been to the Dominican or Cuba? Those guys aren't using PED's there. They can't afford if and they're as skinny as a toothpick. It's not till they get to America that they bulk up. Look at a guy like Gregory Polanco. He was listed at 6'4 and 155 prior to last season.

Perhaps the players who use PED's should be suing America because that makes about as much sense. People in the Dominican can't afford food never mind PED's,
Actually, without a prescription... yes it is.

---------------------------------------------

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Posted: 01/31/2013 6:04 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


Ok - maybe deporting is the wrong word.  How about not providing any visa processing for them in the future? The 100 game suspension would likely carry to the next season, where MLB and its teams simply elect not to process the offending players visa.  I don't see any legal issues there.  In fact, if a player went on a visa went on a steroid rage, any victims could also sue MLB as they brought him to the US.  It would be simply limiting your liability.

While I agree the Dominican and Cuba are poor, this also escalates the use of PEDs among foreign nationals as they reason that they have to use PEDs as they have no backup.  Sad, true, but its still not fair that a juiced up Melky Cabrera inflates his performance, when a Neil Walker is competing without steriods.  Walker on steroids would hit 30 HR and would be as good as say - Robinson Cano.
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Posted: 01/31/2013 7:53 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


Yes, some "controlled substances" are illegal, others are not, and some are legal or illegal depending on the context.  For example, a cancer patient might be given a concoction designed to help them retain or build muscle mass as a means of fighting the debilitating side effects of chemotherapy.  Perfectly legal and prescribed by a doctor.  But the same concoction would be totally illegal if a professional athlete took the same stuff as a means of adding to the natural muscle that he already has. 


I know BAM and some others here have disagreed with me in the past, but I still maintain that if you are just very diligent and disciplined, you can still get most of the same results from perfectly legal means that you do from PED's.  Again, it's not just a matter of what you take into your body in terms of supplements.  It's your diet, your training regimen, all of that.  And again, even the worst and lowliest major league bench warmer - scrubeenie makes half a million dollars a year.  Think about that, yinz guys.  That means even the worst benchwarmer can afford a 100% organic designer diet, can pay for a personal sports trainer and/or visits to that sports performance clinic in Arizona (the one that Pedro Alvarez went to one offseason), and can afford the best and nothing but the very best natural - legal supplements.  They don't have to get a job in a beer warehouse every offseason like Roger Maris did.  So, when literally all you have to do in life is eat right, train right, and play a ballgame, why any of these guys isn't on the cover of Men's Fitness year in and year out, I don't know.  And yet some of them still look like the bouncer at the corner bar, or like a blue collar garbage man who likes to knock back some beer and wings a few nights a week.  Therefore I conclude that sheer laziness and shortcutting is behind the push for PED's with most of these guys. 


No, you won't get the "ultra" performance that you do with the various testosterone and steroid cocktails they're using now.  But you can still get significant boosts in performance---you can still get most of the way there---doing it the perfectly legal way.  These guys can afford to take the long way around, so to speak, because they have the means and the motive.  What many of them don't have is the character and the discipline.
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Posted: 01/31/2013 8:08 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



katoy2j wrote: You can't be deporting people. Using PED's isn't against the law. Should we be arresting basketball players after a certain number of flagrant fouls? What if that player was clean when he started but only started using drugs when they got to America. Have any of you guys been to the Dominican or Cuba? Those guys aren't using PED's there. They can't afford if and they're as skinny as a toothpick. It's not till they get to America that they bulk up. Look at a guy like Gregory Polanco. He was listed at 6'4 and 155 prior to last season.

Perhaps the players who use PED's should be suing America because that makes about as much sense. People in the Dominican can't afford food never mind PED's,
Surely even you can see how ridiculous that analogy is, right?

Again, show me an example of someone in this country on a work visa who is here on false pretenses and yet is allowed to stay.
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 01/31/2013 8:37 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


They aren't under false pretenses. They come here to play baseball. It's not till they start playing in America that they start using PED's. How many years was Melky Cabrera likely in the States before he started using steroids? Five? Six?

I'm fine with strengthening discipline but major league baseball has no right to be deporting people. It's a game. A lot of the stuff being taken is not illegal. Look at Ray Lewis and Deer antler spray. That is considered performance enhancing and is available on Amazon.
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Posted: 01/31/2013 9:10 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



katoy2j wrote: They aren't under false pretenses. They come here to play baseball. It's not till they start playing in America that they start using PED's. How many years was Melky Cabrera likely in the States before he started using steroids? Five? Six?

I'm fine with strengthening discipline but major league baseball has no right to be deporting people. It's a game. A lot of the stuff being taken is not illegal. Look at Ray Lewis and Deer antler spray. That is considered performance enhancing and is available on Amazon.
Does IBM deport people if they find out they don't really have a Masters degree in engineering?  No, they don't.  But they let the proper authorities know what's going and action is taken from there.

"First of all, this guy is over here in the United States on a working visa. He broke the law. What's he doing still here? I mean, forget the 50-game suspension from baseball and whether he can come back if they make the players [sic] or not. Why's he still here? That visa should be taken away, and he should not be allowed to play over here again, or work over here again, in my opinion." -- Rick Sutcliff
"I originally said he would get fired in mid-May after a poor start, but honestly, he might not make it to May at this rate." A 'professional' opinion of Manager of the Year Clint Hurdle 4/8/13
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Posted: 01/31/2013 10:36 AM

RE: Performance Enhancing Drugs 



GhostOfPBG wrote:
Does IBM deport people if they find out they don't really have a Masters degree in engineering?  No, they don't.  But they let the proper authorities know what's going and action is taken from there.

Its unlikely they report them to the authorities but they sure process their H-1B visa.  That's all I'm asking - if a non citizen is guilty of using PEDs, MLB and its teams no longer process their visas.
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Posted: 02/01/2013 5:13 AM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


First time offense: suspended for one full season without pay.

Second time offense: banned from the sport for life.

If you don't use then you should have no problem with that.

Of course, the union would never allow/approve it.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 02/04/2013 11:13 AM

Re: Performance Enhancing Drugs 


I think the other item that should be down is repayment of money earned (percentage wise).
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