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Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy?

Posted: 01/10/2013 8:31 PM

Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


http://baseballnewssource.com/arizona-diamondbacks /diamondbacks-justin-upton-rejects-trade-to-marine rs/14731/

I don't get it.  That doesn't seem like a worthy package.  2 good prospects and a couple RP's?
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Posted: 01/10/2013 9:25 PM

Re: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Jason Kubel is supposedly on the trading block, as well, depending on whom you believe.  I'm not crazy about Upton, but I could definitely live with Kubel in right.
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Posted: 01/10/2013 9:52 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


I don't think Kubel gives you anymore than any of the guys we already have and he's 30.  How can you not be a fan of Upton and like Kubel more?  Upton is 24 with 2 MVP caliber seasons under his belt.

Last edited 01/10/2013 9:53 PM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 01/10/2013 9:57 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Taijuan Walker is pretty much Garret Cole and Nick Franklin is Alen Hanson.

I wouldn't make that deal if I was the Pirates. Upton is only signed for three more years. Upton isn't really cheap as he's going to make 9.75, 14.25 and 14.5 million the next three seasons.

Also I don't really see outfield as a huge problem. Marte and McCutchen seem like pretty safe bets and then you have Sands, Tabata and Snider. One of them hopefully takes the position.

Personally I'd rather have a guy like Paul Goldschmidt if I'm going to take anyone off of Arizona.

The Arizona offseason has been brutal. Worst by far in baseball. Overpaid for Cody Ross, traded Bauer away for 25 cents on the dollar and they traded Chris Young for Heath Bell. Talk about destroying a pretty good team.
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Posted: 01/10/2013 11:42 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Apparently in Texas, Ian Kinsler has come out and said he doesn't want to move off of second base anymore. I would be all over Texas and see if you can get Profar. I would offer something along the lines of Jameson Taillon and Garrett Jones for Profar. Jones helps the team right now giving them a left handed bat to help the lineup and they can use Taillon next year in the rotation.

That trade would fill the shortstop position and it opens up first base for Sands with the luxury of having Gaby Sanchez as a safety net.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 2:37 AM

Re: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


After the year Kinsler just had, he's in no position to make ultimatums. He'll move if they tell him to.

I also don't think Taillon and Jones would be enough. At the very least, yu'd have to swap out Cole for Taillon. Cole is more of a sure thing (to the extent there is such a thing), and is closer to the majors (like Profar).

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Posted: 01/11/2013 7:19 AM

Re: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


I do think we need a RF because the 3 we have all are not ML quality, but I dont think Kubal is the answer either.

If Texas would give us Profar for Jones and Taillion I would do it. I am not a fan of Profar at all, but for only Taillon and Jones I would risk it.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 8:59 AM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: I don't think Kubel gives you anymore than any of the guys we already have and he's 30.  How can you not be a fan of Upton and like Kubel more?  Upton is 24 with 2 MVP caliber seasons under his belt.

I like Kubel more because he has a more consistent track record than Upton, and because I've not heard that he is any kind of a pain in the neck as Upton might be---depending on whom you believe---and because Kubel's power is peaking, and because I am quite certain he is much better all by himself than any combination of players the Pirates are likely to run out in right field in 2013.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 9:30 AM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Nice write up comparing the return Arizona was going to receive from Seattle and then using that return to get an idea of the Pirates equivalent return would be for Upton.


I would absolutely NOT do this deal for Upton. Too much to give up for him especially when in my opinion dominant top of the rotation Starting Pitchers are by far the most important position on a team and are the most expensive and risky to acquire in free agency.

http://www.piratesprospects.co...he-pirates.html

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Posted: 01/11/2013 10:21 AM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 



williamjpellas wrote:
BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: I don't think Kubel gives you anymore than any of the guys we already have and he's 30.  How can you not be a fan of Upton and like Kubel more?  Upton is 24 with 2 MVP caliber seasons under his belt.

I like Kubel more because he has a more consistent track record than Upton, and because I've not heard that he is any kind of a pain in the neck as Upton might be---depending on whom you believe---and because Kubel's power is peaking, and because I am quite certain he is much better all by himself than any combination of players the Pirates are likely to run out in right field in 2013.
Upton:

2008:  .816 OPS
2009:  .899 OPS
2010:  .799 OPS
2011:  .898 OPS
2012:  .785 OPS

Kubel:

2007:  .785 OPS
2008:  .805 OPS
2009:  .907 OPS
2010:  .750 OPS
2011:  .766 OPS
2012:  .833 OPS

Kubel was 25 in 2007, and full year older than Upton was last season.  He is not more consistent and has only had one season better than Upton's best and was 27 at the time.  Kubel's power is also, not peaking, at least not by the numbers.  Kubel is also a butcher in the field.  Aside from 2009 when he was worth 3.1 WAR according to B-R, he has never been worth 1 WAR.

Last edited 01/11/2013 10:23 AM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:03 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Upton is totally unrealistic. I am not sure why anyone is even wasting time debating him.

 

No way the Pirates are going to give up what Arizona wants. And if Seattle was on his no trade list, I would have to think the Pirates are as well.

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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:04 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


The Pirates are not on his list.

Seattle, Chicago Cubs, Toronto and Boston
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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:13 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


I'm not for going after Upton, but Arizona has now done a couple of strange things. I think we should be looking for a steal from them. I also don't think Walker = Cole, but I think Franklin > Hanson, so you could offer Taillon + Hanson + (any number of combination of names). We don't match up well and I think 1 of Snider/Tabata/Sands/Presley will step out this year. So, no need for Upton, but I don't understand how anyone could say they like Kubel more than Upton. Upton may be a jerk, but a guy entering the season at 25 who has already been an MVP candidate twice, should be getting more of a return IMO. Yes, he's young, but paid like a vet because of breaking into the ML quickly, but his entire prime is still in front of him. You may be getting his best 3 years.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:19 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Yes in no way is Kubel half the player that Upton is.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:43 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Very true, but when you factor in the cost of obtaining each player, he might be a better value to the Pirates.

Either way though, I would use the resources towards a Pitcher and not either Upton or Kubel's salary. Would rather use it on a starter who will give you 200 innings and hope Tabata or Snider come around.

katoy2j wrote: Yes in no way is Kubel half the player that Upton is.

Last edited 01/11/2013 12:46 PM by panthers2533

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Posted: 01/11/2013 12:49 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Kubel hit 30 home runs in his first full season in the National League, and that after a serious ankle injury the year before.  He can play for my team anytime.
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Posted: 01/11/2013 1:02 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: I'm not for going after Upton, but Arizona has now done a couple of strange things. I think we should be looking for a steal from them. I also don't think Walker = Cole, but I think Franklin > Hanson, so you could offer Taillon + Hanson + (any number of combination of names). We don't match up well and I think 1 of Snider/Tabata/Sands/Presley will step out this year. So, no need for Upton, but I don't understand how anyone could say they like Kubel more than Upton. Upton may be a jerk, but a guy entering the season at 25 who has already been an MVP candidate twice, should be getting more of a return IMO. Yes, he's young, but paid like a vet because of breaking into the ML quickly, but his entire prime is still in front of him. You may be getting his best 3 years.



I agree that we don't match up well with Arizona.

Tabata is signed to a long term deal and Snider cost up an effective relief pitcher to acquire. As such, those two are our rightfielders, until one or both prove they aren't up to the task.

The money budgeted for Liriano (and free-ed up by the trade of Hanrahan) has to go towards another starting pitcher.

___________

 

  

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Posted: 01/11/2013 1:12 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 


Kubel struck out 151 times last year.  He'd be perfect.

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Posted: 01/11/2013 1:20 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 



williamjpellas wrote: Kubel hit 30 home runs in his first full season in the National League, and that after a serious ankle injury the year before.  He can play for my team anytime.
Keep taking Jason Kubel's over Justin Upton's and that team will take an ass-kickin'
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Posted: 01/11/2013 7:35 PM

RE: Should be taking advantage of Arizona's crazy? 



Sangue wrote:

Kubel struck out 151 times last year.  He'd be perfect.



That was far and away his career high.  It was also his first season in the National League.  A career average season for him looks like this: .268-24-94 with an .800 OPS.  Anything wrong with any of that?  That's an average year for him, not a peak year.  That looks better than anything we're likely to have lying around in right field in 2013 in any combination, if you ask me.  And Kubel won't cost as much to acquire, nor is he going to be a royal pain in the posterior, as Upton might be.  I say "might" because I don't have enough information to say with any confidence whether his purported "issues" are legitimate or are mere hearsay.  I think there's a lot of smoke for there to be no fire, but again, I don't know for sure, so I can't say.  Given that you'd have to mortgage the farm to get him, I wouldn't want any part of Upton.  Give me Kubel or a similar player.  I'd rather have the reliable known quantity than a supremely talented jerk, if indeed Upton IS a jerk.

Last edited 01/11/2013 7:35 PM by williamjpellas

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