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Garrett Jones

  • bucco66
  • Member
  • 295 posts this site

Posted: 01/02/2013 12:45 PM

Garrett Jones 


Given the multiple options we now have at 1B and RF, as well as his value peaking right now, how many people think we'll see Jones in a Pirate uniform on opening day? I don't.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 12:46 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


They should sell high on him. I really like him, but 2012 smacks of a career year. I'd like to see them get another arm.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 12:56 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: They should sell high on him. I really like him, but 2012 smacks of a career year. I'd like to see them get another arm.

I tend to agree that 2012 was probably a career year, but on the other hand, 2012 was also the first season in which he was platooned almost the entire time.  The trend towards sitting Jones against lefthanders started the previous season but was fully in place last year.  His career work against righthanders is really pretty good.  That doesn't mean he'll keep it up at a pace similar to what we saw in 2012, but it is more likely that he will if he is now more or less strictly a platoon player facing the pitchers against whom he is most likely to succeed. 


Thus, there is some risk in trading him, even if his value is probably as high right now as it is ever going to go.  I'm leaning against it, personally, because the Pirates as currently constructed have a significant veteran presence, especially in the starting rotation.  This is the kind of team that sometimes overachieves by virtue of consistent starting pitching---in which case losing Jones' power could end up wasting a lot of good pitching.  If the Pirates were deeper in the rebuild than they are right now, I would definitely say, deal him.  But right now I would call them a darkhorse in the NL Central for 2013.  Not a favorite by any means, but a team that could pop up if a lot of things break right for them.  This of course assumes that the Burnett and Wandy Show continues at its 2012 pace, that Liriano works out, that MacDonald is consistent for a whole season, that Morton makes it back, and that one of the kids becomes an effective starter (in which case one of the other guys could be traded to fill other needs).  So that's a lot of boxcars that have to be rolled.  Still, it could happen.  In which case a decent veteran power source who, while nothing special, is experienced and is a known quantity, would definitely help.  Jones, in short, is more valuable to a contending Pirates team than he is to a rebuilding Pirates team, or so it seems to me.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 1:40 PM

Re: Garrett Jones 


I'm thinking he's going to be with the Bucs opening day. He'll be platooning with Gaby at first base. Jones has been too hot and cold in his career. I don't know that anyone would offer us a whole lot for him. At least, not what he would be worth.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 1:52 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


If you could get Justin Smoak and John Jaso back for Garrett Jones I would move him. I think Smoak will really flourish if he can get out of Safeco and Jaso is an ideal catcher to use as a backup because he bats left handed. Smoak is also a switch hitter who would bat mostly left handed so both players should ideally play well in PNC. Smoak would be under team control through 2016 and Jaso would be around through 2015.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 2:41 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



I would do that deal. Would not like losing Jones, but Seattle is desperate for some proven hitting and they might bite. Smoak needs a change of scenery very much like Snyder did. Between the two of them, Tabata and Sands you would have a boatload of talent and competition.

FYI - I looked back at the 2007 BA top prospect list and guess who was sandwiched between Ryan Braun and Adam Jones? None other than Jose Tabata. Good grief.
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--- katoy2j wrote:

If you could get Justin Smoak and John Jaso back for Garrett Jones I would move him. I think Smoak will really flourish if he can get out of Safeco and Jaso is an ideal catcher to use as a backup because he bats left handed. Smoak is also a switch hitter who would bat mostly left handed so both players should ideally play well in PNC. Smoak would be under team control through 2016 and Jaso would be around through 2015.

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Posted: 01/02/2013 2:53 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



katoy2j wrote: If you could get Justin Smoak and John Jaso back for Garrett Jones I would move him. I think Smoak will really flourish if he can get out of Safeco and Jaso is an ideal catcher to use as a backup because he bats left handed. Smoak is also a switch hitter who would bat mostly left handed so both players should ideally play well in PNC. Smoak would be under team control through 2016 and Jaso would be around through 2015.

I'd definitely do that deal. Haven't heard that it was a possibility.




I spent most of my money on beer and football. The rest I just wasted.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 3:09 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


Before the Pirates signed Russell Martin there were rumors of a Garrett Jones and Joel Hanrahan trade for Juston Smoak, John Jaso and Hector Noesi. I wouldn't of done that trade as I think Hanrahan's value was much more than that but if you dropped Noesi and Hanrahan from the trade it makes it much more interesting.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 3:54 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



katoy2j wrote: If you could get Justin Smoak and John Jaso back for Garrett Jones I would move him. I think Smoak will really flourish if he can get out of Safeco and Jaso is an ideal catcher to use as a backup because he bats left handed. Smoak is also a switch hitter who would bat mostly left handed so both players should ideally play well in PNC. Smoak would be under team control through 2016 and Jaso would be around through 2015.
I would actually do Smoak for Jones strait up.
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Posted: 01/02/2013 4:08 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


We'd better get more than that. Smoak had a .654 OPS last season. Though that should improve if he gets out of Seattle.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 9:21 AM

RE: Garrett Jones 


If I were the Pirates, I'd be looking to sign Jones to a 2 or 3 year deal.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 11:11 AM

RE: Garrett Jones 


Jones asks for 3 years and 21 million dollars. Do you give that to him for his age 32-34 seasons? That is what he will make in arbitration so why guarantee the money? Just go year-to-year and you can get out of the same contract at any time. No need for a long term contract that only places a burden on the Pirates.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 12:24 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



katoy2j wrote: Jones asks for 3 years and 21 million dollars. Do you give that to him for his age 32-34 seasons? That is what he will make in arbitration so why guarantee the money? Just go year-to-year and you can get out of the same contract at any time. No need for a long term contract that only places a burden on the Pirates.

You ask him to share some risk and offer 3 years, 16 million.  His agent may want to turn it down, but Jones will take the money.  If he flops, at least a good guy ends up with the money.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 12:38 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


But why does Jones take that deal?

He is guaranteed to get about 5 million dollars this year anyway. Then he's guaranteed two more raises in free agency. If Jonny Gomes can get 10 million for two years on the weak side of a platoon then Jones being on the strong end can at least match that.

I'm against the cost certainty extensions which is why I'm also against extending Neil Walker. You don't save any significant dollars. Extensions make sense when you're acquiring free agent years such as the Pirates did with Tabata and McCutchen. Do the Pirates really want Jones past his age 34 season? Walker past 31 when the team has some very good players who will be ready by then?

Go year to year with both of them. If Jones earns the extra money then good for him. He'll have to keep posting 25 homer seasons though. If Jones has a 2011 season instead of a 2012 season next year another team will still give Jones 5 million for that although it likely won't be the Pirates. Jones doesn't have much risk and the Pirates don't either going year to year. An extension really doesn't help the Pirates although it does help Jones.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 1:47 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



katoy2j wrote: But why does Jones take that deal?

He is guaranteed to get about 5 million dollars this year anyway. Then he's guaranteed two more raises in free agency. If Jonny Gomes can get 10 million for two years on the weak side of a platoon then Jones being on the strong end can at least match that.

I'm against the cost certainty extensions which is why I'm also against extending Neil Walker. You don't save any significant dollars. Extensions make sense when you're acquiring free agent years such as the Pirates did with Tabata and McCutchen. Do the Pirates really want Jones past his age 34 season? Walker past 31 when the team has some very good players who will be ready by then?

Go year to year with both of them. If Jones earns the extra money then good for him. He'll have to keep posting 25 homer seasons though. If Jones has a 2011 season instead of a 2012 season next year another team will still give Jones 5 million for that although it likely won't be the Pirates. Jones doesn't have much risk and the Pirates don't either going year to year. An extension really doesn't help the Pirates although it does help Jones.
Maybe you slide ole' Neil back over to 3B at 31.

Your argument is sound from a financial perspective.  As a fan, I'd like to see Walker and Jones play the rest of their careers as Pirates.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 2:17 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


A Jones extension is a non factor for me. It just isn't a good idea at this point in time because Jones is so old when he reaches free agency. The Pirates did right by Jones giving him a chance when nobody else did. Lots of 28 years olds are deemed AAAA players and never get a chance. Garrett Jones is going to bank at least 8 million dollars and if you asked him at age 28 if he would take that I'm sure he would be ecstatic. Clint Robinson is in the same boat right now and there is a good chance he is out of baseball in a few years without making any money at all. Jones is probably set for life while Robinson might need to work at Target in a few years just to pay the bills.

Walker is a different case. The question becomes does Neil Walker have any upside left? Walker has been consistent. If the Pirates believe he can grow as a player then it makes sense to extend him. If they think Walker can be a 20 homer guy then by all means extend him. If they think he is what he is now then go year to year with him. I don't think I have ever been on the fence more about any player in baseball than I have about Neil Walker. An hour ago I wouldn't extend him and now I'm not opposed to it after thinking it over provided it makes sense financially. If Walker would accept the following deal I would sign him:

2013 - 3 million
2014 - 5 million
2015 - 6 million
2016 - 6 million
2017 - 7 million
2018 - 7 million
2019 - 11 million (2 million buy out, team option)

That is a 6 year extension worth 36 million guaranteed that could reach a 7 year deal of 45 million.

What sort of makes me think it might be a good idea is that it gives you an option should Pedro Alvarez leave down the line. Walker is a switch hitter which is a plus and the fact that if Alvarez did leave as a free agent after 2016 or get traded before then you have an option in Walker to move back to third base. It only makes sense though if the Pirates feel Walker can be a 20 homer a year guy. I'm not sure but if the numbers are right I would take a chance.

Also I really like the idea of Walker, Hanson and Josh Bell (I think the team will move him to first base eventually) all on the infield. Having three switch hitting infielders would be a nice asset to have. With an insanely athletic possible outfield of Marte, McCutchen and Polanco and the horses the Pirates are developing I think it's nice to have the option of Walker around and if he's willing to take a fair contract it certainly makes sense. I would be ok with extending both Alvarez and Walker right now.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 3:43 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


Jones is probably set for life while Robinson might need to work at Target in a few years just to pay the bills.


I'll say this: while Robinson is a Div II college guy and thus was old for his level almost all the way through his minor league career to date, he really has some impressive numbers.  What I particularly like about him is his low strikeouts and excellent walk-to-strikeout ratio.  I don't know if Robinson is another Garrett Jones---but he might be.  Jones, of course, is probably going to go down in history as the single greatest off-the-junkheap signing in recent years if not, like, ever.  But Robinson is intriguing.  I'll tell yinz guys: if things go south for the Pirates in 2013, I'd have no problem dealing Jones and giving Robinson, say, the second half of the season to show what he can do.  He might do a faceplant---but he might not.  If he turned out to be even somewhat comparable to Jones, how much would THAT be worth when he would cost about a tenth of what Jones figures to make in arbitration in another year?
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Posted: 01/04/2013 4:59 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 


I agree and I think Robinson will get some kind of shot this season. Injuries are bound to happen and Jones has the ability to play the outfield which will probably allow some first base at bats for Robinson. I wouldn't mind the team yo-yoing Robinson around during the season when the team plays in American league parks. They have a couple of games against Detroit in late May. Then in June they have back to back series against the Angels and Mariners and then a 3 game series against the Rangers in September. It's only 10 road American league games but it's still 40 or so at bats to at least get a read on the guy.
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Posted: 01/04/2013 9:23 PM

RE: Garrett Jones 



katoy2j wrote: A Jones extension is a non factor for me. It just isn't a good idea at this point in time because Jones is so old when he reaches free agency. The Pirates did right by Jones giving him a chance when nobody else did. Lots of 28 years olds are deemed AAAA players and never get a chance. Garrett Jones is going to bank at least 8 million dollars and if you asked him at age 28 if he would take that I'm sure he would be ecstatic. Clint Robinson is in the same boat right now and there is a good chance he is out of baseball in a few years without making any money at all. Jones is probably set for life while Robinson might need to work at Target in a few years just to pay the bills.

Walker is a different case. The question becomes does Neil Walker have any upside left? Walker has been consistent. If the Pirates believe he can grow as a player then it makes sense to extend him. If they think Walker can be a 20 homer guy then by all means extend him. If they think he is what he is now then go year to year with him. I don't think I have ever been on the fence more about any player in baseball than I have about Neil Walker. An hour ago I wouldn't extend him and now I'm not opposed to it after thinking it over provided it makes sense financially. If Walker would accept the following deal I would sign him:

2013 - 3 million
2014 - 5 million
2015 - 6 million
2016 - 6 million
2017 - 7 million
2018 - 7 million
2019 - 11 million (2 million buy out, team option)

That is a 6 year extension worth 36 million guaranteed that could reach a 7 year deal of 45 million.

What sort of makes me think it might be a good idea is that it gives you an option should Pedro Alvarez leave down the line. Walker is a switch hitter which is a plus and the fact that if Alvarez did leave as a free agent after 2016 or get traded before then you have an option in Walker to move back to third base. It only makes sense though if the Pirates feel Walker can be a 20 homer a year guy. I'm not sure but if the numbers are right I would take a chance.

Also I really like the idea of Walker, Hanson and Josh Bell (I think the team will move him to first base eventually) all on the infield. Having three switch hitting infielders would be a nice asset to have. With an insanely athletic possible outfield of Marte, McCutchen and Polanco and the horses the Pirates are developing I think it's nice to have the option of Walker around and if he's willing to take a fair contract it certainly makes sense. I would be ok with extending both Alvarez and Walker right now.
It seems like 2B is one of the cheapest positions to fill, even with really good players. I think you are pretty much right on with the numbers for Walker. I think if you start at 5M though it might be better. But 6/36 is pretty spot on for Walker.
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  • bucco66
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Posted: 01/05/2013 1:05 PM

Re: Garrett Jones 


Walker may be a switch hitter but his numbers translate into a platoon guy. BA & OPS had major platoon splits and ALL of his 14 homers were against RHP. I don't know if this was a one year anomaly or if it's a career thing but it's something to keep in mind when considering a long term deal. And then there's the herniated disc thing he encountered last year and is that gone and forgotten or is it something that could come back regularly?
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