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No More Hammer

Posted: 12/22/2012 7:37 PM

No More Hammer 


So it looks like Hammer is gone. Now the Pirates have no Closer. Grilli has what 5 saves in his career? So then who is the set up man? Who steps up when Grilli falls? Because, lets be honest there is about a 50/50 shot Grilli will not have the make up to be a closer. I just dont know if I like this. I know that closers are very streaky and Hanny could go the way of dodo bird. But the idea of Grilli as the closer and no back up is a bad decision. Lets hope there are other moves in the future.
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  • Lucci33
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Posted: 12/22/2012 8:05 PM

Re: No More Hammer 


Hanrahan was not a successful closer til he came to the Burgh and got the chance.  Grilli will be equal to him at less than half the cost.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 8:47 PM

Re: No More Hammer 


Hammer was a young arm and a member of the US World Cup team. He was thought of as one of the best young American arms. Grilli is a 35 year old who has never closed. Who was the last 35 year old 1st time closer that worked out?
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Posted: 12/22/2012 8:49 PM

RE: No More Hammer 


Saloman Torres?
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Posted: 12/22/2012 9:29 PM

RE: No More Hammer 


Good one. But if Grilli puts up numbers like Torres then we are in trouble. ( 7-5, 3.41 era, 7 blown saves in 35 chances. 50K's in 80 innings.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 9:39 PM

RE: No More Hammer 


Why would we be in trouble? Hanrahan blew 4 saves in 60 innings. Torres blew more saves only because he pitched multiple innings and thus had more opportunities to do so. If Grilli puts up numbers like Torres which he wouldn't since he strikes out a lot more guys we'll be pretty much the same. Grilli actually had much better numbers than Hanrahan.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 9:44 PM

RE: No More Hammer 


until a bonified closer was in place ...a very stupid move
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Posted: 12/22/2012 10:25 PM

RE: No More Hammer 



bballexpert wrote: until a bonified closer was in place ...a very stupid move
Yeah, it's not like the Giants just didn't win a World Series without a bonafide closer.
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Posted: 12/22/2012 10:30 PM

RE: No More Hammer 


Also it's possible Melancon is also in the deal so we would have someone with closing experience on the roster though I still think they would give Grili the first shot at closing.
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  • Lucci33
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Posted: 12/23/2012 6:33 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


They're taking forever to announce the other players involved. Anyone have a guess about the hold up? Maybe we're there's another team in the mix or something?
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:07 AM

RE: No More Hammer 



Lucci33 wrote: They're taking forever to announce the other players involved. Anyone have a guess about the hold up? Maybe we're there's another team in the mix or something?


I have a hunch that Garrett Jones might be involved in this deal in some form or fashion.  At first I didn't think so, because of the other, similar players Boston has on its roster at present.  But right now the Pirates have: Jones, Gaby Sanchez, Sands, and Whatsisface they got from Kansas City as players who could man first base.  Jones, while a useful guy who has his moments, is maddeningly streaky and not as good defensively as you'd like to see.  He's also 31 and getting expensive in arbitration.   Depending on the return, it might be the right time to trade him.  I dunno, though.  He does have serious power and he has a respectable-if-not-overwhelming body of major league work.  Given that they've already gotten rid of Hanrahan's pending salary, I think Jones could easily be retained for the coming season.  It would be nice to hold onto veteran hitters like him to see what the Pirates could do now that they've got a veteran pitching staff.  Is Jones irreplaceable?  No, I'm not saying that, and again, he is really, REALLY hard to take when he is going through his long slumps.  I'm saying that now may not be the right time to trade him simply because he is a more or less known quantity, and this team is looking like it might be able to contend for a playoff spot, and stability and veteran experience counts more for a team like that than it does in a rebuilding situation.  Now is not the time to add more churn to the roster, in other words.
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  • Lucci33
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:10 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


The only way i think (or at least hope) they trade Jones too in this is if they receive a serious prospect.  Maybe that's what's going on, but I hope not.  They need to try to win this year.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:31 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


Jones has hit 20+ home runs the past two years. As such, Jones is easily the best first baseman on the roster.

If we give up both Hanny and Jones, we better get more than I've heard about so far.

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--- williamjpellas wrote:


Lucci33 wrote: They're taking forever to announce the other players involved. Anyone have a guess about the hold up? Maybe we're there's another team in the mix or something?


I have a hunch that Garrett Jones might be involved in this deal in some form or fashion.  At first I didn't think so, because of the other, similar players Boston has on its roster at present.  But right now the Pirates have: Jones, Gaby Sanchez, Sands, and Whatsisface they got from Kansas City as players who could man first base.  Jones, while a useful guy who has his moments, is maddeningly streaky and not as good defensively as you'd like to see.  He's also 31 and getting expensive in arbitration.   Depending on the return, it might be the right time to trade him.  I dunno, though.  He does have serious power and he has a respectable-if-not-overwhelming body of major league work.  Given that they've already gotten rid of Hanrahan's pending salary, I think Jones could easily be retained for the coming season.  It would be nice to hold onto veteran hitters like him to see what the Pirates could do now that they've got a veteran pitching staff.  Is Jones irreplaceable?  No, I'm not saying that, and again, he is really, REALLY hard to take when he is going through his long slumps.  I'm saying that now may not be the right time to trade him simply because he is a more or less known quantity, and this team is looking like it might be able to contend for a playoff spot, and stability and veteran experience counts more for a team like that than it does in a rebuilding situation.  Now is not the time to add more churn to the roster, in other words.

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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:33 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


John Perrotto take on the trade:


Owner Bob Nutting is so cost-conscious that you would think he lives in a one-room apartment above a storefront in Follansbee, W.Va., than a house in Wheeling worth seven figures. He wouldn’t allow the Pirates to go over their $70-million bidget for even a few months in order to allow Huntington to create a better market for Hanrahan.

Thus, the Pirates used their best trade chip for a bunch of Red Sox spare parts.

Merry Christmas, Pirates fans.

http://www.timesonline.com/spo...f274895fef.html

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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:34 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


Man I agree. If jones is part of this deal, the return coming back better be much better than what has been reported to this point.

Look Jones is not Pujlos but he is definitely a major leaguer and if you are giving up Hanny AND Jones you need at least one sure fire major leaguer in return that you can put in your lineup.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:37 AM

RE: No More Hammer 



katoy2j wrote: Why would we be in trouble? Hanrahan blew 4 saves in 60 innings. Torres blew more saves only because he pitched multiple innings and thus had more opportunities to do so. If Grilli puts up numbers like Torres which he wouldn't since he strikes out a lot more guys we'll be pretty much the same. Grilli actually had much better numbers than Hanrahan.
Converting 80% of your saves is not a good %. You can make up what ever excuses you want to try and prove a point, but an 80% save % is not good my any standards.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:52 AM

RE: No More Hammer 



Sangue wrote: John Perrotto take on the trade:


Owner Bob Nutting is so cost-conscious that you would think he lives in a one-room apartment above a storefront in Follansbee, W.Va., than a house in Wheeling worth seven figures. He wouldn’t allow the Pirates to go over their $70-million bidget for even a few months in order to allow Huntington to create a better market for Hanrahan.

Thus, the Pirates used their best trade chip for a bunch of Red Sox spare parts.

Merry Christmas, Pirates fans.

http://www.timesonline.com/spo...f274895fef.html



Right, but in the same article, even Perotto mentions other teams' concerns over Hanrahan's blatant lack of conditioning.  Hanrahan was also very wild last season.  Add these two points to the fact that he is just one year away from unrestricted free agency, and getting Sands and Pimentel in exchange for him is about right.  See?  Professionalism, a large part of which is dedication to your craft in the form of being disciplined enough to say in shape, definitely counts, and it counts for a great deal, as we see here.  So rather than blame Nutting again, maybe some fingers ought to be pointed at Hanrahan for screwing the team because he looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.  


Beyond this, though, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I am definitely with panthers in saying there better be a LOT more coming to Pittsburgh than what we've seen to this point if Jones is also leaving town.

Last edited 12/23/2012 7:53 AM by williamjpellas

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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:53 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


If Jones is added this is a horrible trade and nothing more than a salary dump. If you trade your closer and 1B for a guy, who at best, gets you the same numbers your 1B already gets, just a a cheaper cost then you as an organization FAIL.

You dont replace Hanny and Jones with Grilli and Sands and think you are better. You get rid of Hanny and Jones salary because you just signed Martin, Liriano and Grilli and need the extra money because you have no idea how to run a ML team.
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Posted: 12/23/2012 7:57 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


Hanrahan was 36 of 40 in save opportunities, with a 2.72 ERA and a 1.27 WHIP.

We have to stop denigrating our own players to make bad trades look better.

---------------------------------------------
--- williamjpellas wrote:


Sangue wrote: John Perrotto take on the trade:


Owner Bob Nutting is so cost-conscious that you would think he lives in a one-room apartment above a storefront in Follansbee, W.Va., than a house in Wheeling worth seven figures. He wouldn’t allow the Pirates to go over their $70-million bidget for even a few months in order to allow Huntington to create a better market for Hanrahan.

Thus, the Pirates used their best trade chip for a bunch of Red Sox spare parts.



Merry Christmas, Pirates fans.

www.timesonline.com/spo...f274895fef.html



Right, but in the same article, even Perotto mentions other teams' concerns over Hanrahan's blatant lack of conditioning.  Hanrahan was also very wild last season.  Add these two points to the fact that he is just one year away from unrestricted free agency, and getting Sands and Pimentel in exchange for him is about right.  See?  Professionalism, a large part of which is dedication to your craft in the form of being disciplined enough to say in shape, definitely counts, and it counts for a great deal, as we see here.  So rather than blame Nutting again, maybe some fingers ought to be pointed at Hanrahan for screwing the team because he looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy.  


Beyond this, though, I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I am definitely with panthers in saying there better be a LOT more coming to Pittsburgh than what we've seen to this point if Jones is also leaving town.

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Posted: 12/23/2012 8:00 AM

RE: No More Hammer 


I hope that isn't true, but it is looking that way.

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--- vinnybravo wrote:

If Jones is added this is a horrible trade and nothing more than a salary dump. If you trade your closer and 1B for a guy, who at best, gets you the same numbers your 1B already gets, just a a cheaper cost then you as an organization FAIL.

You dont replace Hanny and Jones with Grilli and Sands and think you are better. You get rid of Hanny and Jones salary because you just signed Martin, Liriano and Grilli and need the extra money because you have no idea how to run a ML team.

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