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Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary

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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:06 AM

Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


I expect we won't get much in return for Hanrahan.

http://www.piratesprospects.co...fb_source=pubv1
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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:18 AM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Desperate to dump salary or using an area of strength to possibly get better?  I agree that now isn't the best time to trade him.  That was at last year's trade deadline.  And if they had traded him then, they'd have gotten roasted for it. 

I imagine they'll get roasted either way with Hanrahan.  Dejan jumped all over that thought almost the second they signed Grilli.  They won't get as much for him as they would have last summer, that's for sure.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:41 AM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


As a fallback they can move Hanrahan for Chris Capuano. Capuano would help the team more than Hanrahan would but I think the Pirates are seeing if they can do better.

The best course of action is to wait out the Tigers. It's hard to imagine the Tigers, a team that made the World Series a year ago and had their closer implode hand the reigns over to a rookie who doesn't have more than 30 innings pitched at any level other than A ball and has a career 5.1 BB/9 in the minors. Hanrahan makes perfect sense for them. He isn't ridiculously expensive and he's only signed for one season. Hanrahan can act as a mentor and then Rondon can ease into the position next year.

I think we should wait out to see what happens with the Tigers and another starting pitcher. If they sign someone then Drew Smyly is on the outside of the rotation. They apparently tried to trade for Shields. Now that Greinke is signed the market should play itself out in the next week or so. I don't think the Pirates need to be in a rush to trade Hanrahan as his value will likely go up as more and more free agents are off the table.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:46 AM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Trading him for nothing would be Stupid. It's better to keep him and perhaps flip him at the deadline. Unless that is you give Josh Hamilton a 1 year $30 million deal and use the Hammer money to do it.

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--- katoy2j wrote:

As a fallback they can move Hanrahan for Chris Capuano. Capuano would help the team more than Hanrahan would but I think the Pirates are seeing if they can do better.

The best course of action is to wait out the Tigers. It's hard to imagine the Tigers, a team that made the World Series a year ago and had their closer implode hand the reigns over to a rookie who doesn't have more than 30 innings pitched at any level other than A ball and has a career 5.1 BB/9 in the minors. Hanrahan makes perfect sense for them. He isn't ridiculously expensive and he's only signed for one season. Hanrahan can act as a mentor and then Rondon can ease into the position next year.

I think we should wait out to see what happens with the Tigers and another starting pitcher. If they sign someone then Drew Smyly is on the outside of the rotation. They apparently tried to trade for Shields. Now that Greinke is signed the market should play itself out in the next week or so. I don't think the Pirates need to be in a rush to trade Hanrahan as his value will likely go up as more and more free agents are off the table.

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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:50 AM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Agreed.  Capuano is a 34-year-old innings eater and he's mediocre at best. 

Cry me a river about the money.  They've got more than enough to keep him.

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Posted: 12/11/2012 11:55 AM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Capuano - Hanny = Karstens

Hanny + Karstens > Capuano

They need to acutally get something of value or keep him.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:00 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Capuano for Hanrahan doesn't save any money anyway.  Capuano is owed $6M in 2013, and will cost another $1M in 2014 to buy out his $8M option.

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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:08 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 



gr1111 wrote: Capuano for Hanrahan doesn't save any money anyway.  Capuano is owed $6M in 2013, and will cost another $1M in 2014 to buy out his $8M option.



Hmmm.  $14 million for the next two years for Capuano, as opposed to paying Hanrahan about the same or probably a little bit more?  I think I'd take Capuano for that money.  The Pirates have plenty of bullpen options, and Capuano---as always, IF he stays more or less in one piece---still has his moments, and could really help us as, say, the fourth starter. 

How 'bout this rotation for 2013:

Burnett
Rodriguez
McDonald
Capuano
Wilson / McPherson---whichever one doesn't start goes to the 'pen.

And this one for 2014:

Cole
McDonald
Taillon
Wilson / McPherson
Capuano


I kinda like that.  The rotation for 2013 would be a bit elderly, but not terribly so, and there's a lot to be said for the veteran experience as long as they can still get it done.  All indications are that they can.  After 2013, Burnett walks as a free agent, and maybe Rodriguez gets dealt.  Or, maybe they let Capuano walk after 2013 and keep Wandy.  Come to think of it, that would be even better:


Cole
McDonald
Taillon
Rodriguez
Wilson/McPherson


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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:18 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Does anyone think that Hanrahan's low value and low interest has anything to do with NH?  Before the trade deadline last season it was written the NH was irritating other GMs by presenting insulting, low-ball offers.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:26 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: Capuano - Hanny = Karstens

Hanny + Karstens > Capuano

They need to acutally get something of value or keep him.
Yeah but it wouldn't really be that way because by letting Karstens go you had money to sign Grilli.  

Hanrahan and Karstens would of cost about 11.5 million for 2013.

Grilli and Capuano will cost less than 10 million for 2013

I think Grilli and Capuano are both superior to Hanrahan and Karstens as players.

Hanrahan - 1.2 HR/9, 5.4 BB/9, 10.1 K/9
Grilli - 1.1 HR/9, 4.8 BB/9, 13.8 K/9

Grilli is better in every category.  The only thing he doesn't have is the "saves"  Well Hanrahan didn't have the saves either before we made him the closer and he turned out just fine.

Karstens and Capuano are pretty similar peripherals wise.  Capuano strikes out more and Karstens walks less.  There is a huge difference between the two players though.

Karstens can't stay healthy.  He's a nice guy but he doesn't help you on the DL.  He's never pitched more than 162.1 innings in a season.  Other than that his high was 122.2 innings.

Capuano on the other hand is getting a really bad wrap here with the injury label.  He's been really durable and TJ surgery is not a big issue.  It's not even as close to as big of a problem as the shoulder issues that Karstens has which are much scarier.  Capuano is a good lock for 30 plus starts and around 200 innings.  Throw in the fact that he would have an elite defense behind him in Pittsburgh and he would have the advantage of being a lefty in PNC and I think he would be a very good pitcher here.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:30 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Capuano on the other hand is getting a really bad wrap here with the injury label.  He's been really durable and TJ surgery is not a big issue.  It's not even as close to as big of a problem as the shoulder issues that Karstens has which are much scarier.  Capuano is a good lock for 30 plus starts and around 200 innings.  Throw in the fact that he would have an elite defense behind him in Pittsburgh and he would have the advantage of being a lefty in PNC and I think he would be a very good pitcher here.


Well, I'm not going to go quite as far as you do, katoy, regarding Capuano's injury history.  It took him more than three full years to make it back to the majors after the 2007 season.  That's not exactly nothing to worry about.  That said, he has now been, apparently, good to go for two full seasons.  So he's about as good a risk at this point in time as a guy like him will ever be.  Agreed, though, that shoulder injuries are more uncertain than elbow injuries.  Much as I like Karstens and have always believed in him, if he can't stay on the field, he can't stay on the field.  I'd rather have Capuano or a similar pitcher (Pelfrey, maybe?) at this point than Karstens. 
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:35 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 



SteelRun wrote: Does anyone think that Hanrahan's low value and low interest has anything to do with NH?  Before the trade deadline last season it was written the NH was irritating other GMs by presenting insulting, low-ball offers.
I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Everyone thinks the guy they have is worth more than he really is.

Lets look at the guys we were interested in trading for...

Justin Upton - didn't get traded

Shin-Soo Choo - didn't get traded

Chase Headley - didn't get traded

It's not likely Huntington was presenting low ball offers it's more of the fact that the other teams wanted to him home runs in their trades.

Considering Huntington was able to make a lot of trades at the deadline last year and has made a lot of trades in the offseason as well although they have been of the minor variety shows that he has a pretty good relationship with GM's

In the last 6 months he's made deals with Miami, New York, Houston, Toronto, Baltimore, Kansas City, Detroit, Oakland

The likely reason that he's having a tough time in dealing Harahan is probably because teams are worried about his growing pant size more than anything.  Sometimes it hard to know if a player is injured but it's pretty easy to see Hanrahan has a conditioning problem.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:42 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


The likely reason that he's having a tough time in dealing Harahan is probably because teams are worried about his growing pant size more than anything.  Sometimes it hard to know if a player is injured but it's pretty easy to see Hanrahan has a conditioning problem.


Yep.  I've thought that this was going to come back to hurt the Pirates for some time now.  Honestly, I'm amazed that Hanrahan has held up as well as he has, given that he obviously isn't spending any time running wind sprints, or even pushing back against the dinner table very much. 
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Posted: 12/11/2012 1:18 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 



williamjpellas wrote:
gr1111 wrote: Capuano for Hanrahan doesn't save any money anyway.  Capuano is owed $6M in 2013, and will cost another $1M in 2014 to buy out his $8M option.



Hmmm.  $14 million for the next two years for Capuano, as opposed to paying Hanrahan about the same or probably a little bit more?  I think I'd take Capuano for that money.  The Pirates have plenty of bullpen options, and Capuano---as always, IF he stays more or less in one piece---still has his moments, and could really help us as, say, the fourth starter. 

How 'bout this rotation for 2013:

Burnett
Rodriguez
McDonald
Capuano
Wilson / McPherson---whichever one doesn't start goes to the 'pen.

And this one for 2014:

Cole
McDonald
Taillon
Wilson / McPherson
Capuano


I kinda like that.  The rotation for 2013 would be a bit elderly, but not terribly so, and there's a lot to be said for the veteran experience as long as they can still get it done.  All indications are that they can.  After 2013, Burnett walks as a free agent, and maybe Rodriguez gets dealt.  Or, maybe they let Capuano walk after 2013 and keep Wandy.  Come to think of it, that would be even better:


Cole
McDonald
Taillon
Rodriguez
Wilson/McPherson






You and I just disagree about having "plenty of bullpen options."  We have exactly one proven closer in the bullpen, and it isn't Grilli (who could revert to his career 4.34 ERA any day).  And it isn't Hughes or Morris either, neither of whom has any experience pitching the 9th inning in the majors.  If I had to choose, I'd MUCH rather have Hanrahan than Capuano on the team.

The best argument for obtaining Capuano, in my mind, is uncertainty regarding JMac.  Is he going to be the pitcher we saw in the first half last year, or in the second?  Capuano would be some insurance if JMac does not pitch well.

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Posted: 12/11/2012 1:42 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Hanrahan had never "closed" until he got a shot and became an all-star in year one on the job. He still only has 2 seasons of it. I personally, am not a Hanny fan, so I have no objectivity I admit. He walks too many, is wild too often, and he gets fatter everytime I see him.

Last edited 12/11/2012 1:43 PM by BAMSTEELERFAN

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Posted: 12/11/2012 1:44 PM

Re: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


John Perrotto is reporting that the Tigers are willing to Brennan Boesch for Joel Hanrahan, but they will not not not trade Rick Porcello for him.

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Posted: 12/11/2012 2:05 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


We have more than enough outfielders as it is. I would rather have Capuano over Boesch personally. Porcello really needs to get out of Detroit as he is a ground ball machine and the Tigers defense is just killing him with all the ground balls they allow through the infield.

I'd still prefer Smyly though
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Posted: 12/11/2012 2:07 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


Why would we want Boesch? If they gave him to us, and paid his salary, and paid Martin's 9.5 million next season, he would still have negative trade value.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:06 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 



BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: Why would we want Boesch? If they gave him to us, and paid his salary, and paid Martin's 9.5 million next season, he would still have negative trade value.

+1. 

NO to Boesch.  I hope the Tigers are kidding with that offer.  Porcello or Smyly or no deal.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:21 PM

RE: Pirates Desperate To Dump Hanrahan's Salary 


I can see Capuano getting up around 200 innings, but the best he ever did was 198 innings last year in a huge ball park. Capuano has never pitched well in PNC park and that has been against bad Pirates team. So I am not sure how he will all of a sudden pitch really well there. I would expect him to post a 4.50 ERA and a WHIP around 1.30-1.35.

As far as Grilli I am not sure that he has the make up to be a closer. One of the biggest things with being a closer is attitude and I dont think Grilli has that "mean " streak in him. I think he is a perfect set-up man but would be scared to go into the season with him as our only closer option.
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