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Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
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Posted: 12/05/2012 2:48 PM
Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
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Posted: 12/05/2012 4:36 PM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
I was hoping we would sign Burnett to add a reliable second lefty in the pen instead of a reclamation project. The $$ didn't seem too steep either. We should know better than to expect this organization to spend some money on a fielding a contender.
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Posted: 12/05/2012 5:29 PM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
4million a year seems pretty steep for a loogy.
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--- juniorkrzy wrote:
I was hoping we would sign Burnett to add a reliable second lefty in the pen instead of a reclamation project. The $$ didn't seem too steep either. We should know better than to expect this organization to spend some money on a fielding a contender.
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Posted: 12/05/2012 6:01 PM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Yeah no way you could justify that kind of coin on a LOOGY. Burnett is a little better than that but still that is the type of move that happens if you're a north of 100 million dollar payroll team or he's the last piece you think you need to fine tune a championship caliber team. The Pirates are neither of those.
I wasn't really high on Cabrera as his size made it highly unlikely he would be able to make it to the majors and by all reports I've heard his arm is pretty poor. With Sanchez in AAA and McKenry and Martin in the majors he was never really going to fit on our team. I don't really see much in Oliver either though but if they can get a cheap LOOGY out him then you end up getting him for about 4 million dollars total for all 6 years.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 7:17 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
The Pittsburgh Pirates have traded switch-hitting catcher prospect Ramon Cabrera to the Detroit Tigers in exchange for starting pitcher Andy Oliver. Full Story | Discuss |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 9:48 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
I'd be ok if Oliver ends up being the 5th starter. I think the top 4 are set at: Burnett Rodriquez McDonald McPherson Oliver would make a lot of sense (being a lefty). |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 10:01 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Sangue wrote:I'd be ok if Oliver ends up being the 5th starter. I think the top 4 are set at: Burnett Rodriquez McDonald McPherson Oliver would make a lot of sense (being a lefty). tehy are still talking to Jurens, pelfrey and some others who might be brought in to copete for spot. |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 10:10 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Sangue wrote:I'd be ok if Oliver ends up being the 5th starter. I think the top 4 are set at: Burnett Rodriquez McDonald McPherson Oliver would make a lot of sense (being a lefty). I think Locke will be ahead of the depth chart over Oliver. I don't think Locke will get the job though as I think this is how the offseason will play out. - Pirates resign Jason Grilli - Hanrahan gets traded to Detroit for prospects. The Tigers are likely waiting to see what happens with Anibal Sanchez and after that will focus on a closer. - The Dodgers sign a free agent pitcher. Chris Capuano is then traded to the Pirates for Alex Presley or a reserve player/low level prospect - Justin Wilson goes back down to AAA as they continue to use him as a starter and Oliver pitches out of the bullpen as a LOOGY. Locke is used as the 6th man in the rotation. Giving the team 3 lefty bullpen arms for matchups Here is how I think the pitching staff breaks down Starters - AJ Burnett - Wandy Rodriguez - James McDonald - Chris Capuano - Kyle McPherson Bullpen - Jason Grilli - Bryan Morris - Jared Hughes - Tony Watson - Andy Oliver - Jeff Locke - Competition between everyone else for the last spot |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 10:17 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
katoy2j wrote:
Sangue wrote:I'd be ok if Oliver ends up being the 5th starter. I think the top 4 are set at: Burnett Rodriquez McDonald McPherson Oliver would make a lot of sense (being a lefty). I think Locke will be ahead of the depth chart over Oliver. I don't think Locke will get the job though as I think this is how the offseason will play out.
- Pirates resign Jason Grilli
- Hanrahan gets traded to Detroit for prospects. The Tigers are likely waiting to see what happens with Anibal Sanchez and after that will focus on a closer.
- The Dodgers sign a free agent pitcher. Chris Capuano is then traded to the Pirates for Alex Presley or a reserve player/low level prospect
- Justin Wilson goes back down to AAA as they continue to use him as a starter and Oliver pitches out of the bullpen as a LOOGY. Locke is used as the 6th man in the rotation. Giving the team 3 lefty bullpen arms for matchups
Here is how I think the pitching staff breaks down
Starters
- AJ Burnett
- Wandy Rodriguez
- James McDonald
- Chris Capuano
- Kyle McPherson
Bullpen
- Jason Grilli
- Bryan Morris
- Jared Hughes
- Tony Watson
- Andy Oliver
- Jeff Locke
- Competition between everyone else for the last spot That makes a lot of sense to me. I like McPherson in the rotation. I think he's going to be surprisingly good. |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 10:57 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
BAMSTEELERFAN wrote:
That makes a lot of sense to me. I like McPherson in the rotation. I think he's going to be surprisingly good. Agreed, McPherson is a lock. Locke is not a lock. Capuano would be fine. I just don't know if the Pirates will spend the money. I'd be fine with Wilson as the 5th starter too.
Last edited 12/07/2012 10:59 AM by Sangue
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Posted: 12/07/2012 11:36 AM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Provided Hanrahan is moved I don't think Capuano's contract would be the issue.
Here is how I look at it. They need to bring in another pitcher as it's unlikely they will have Locke and McPherson both handed spots in the rotation. The bar was pretty much set with Erik Bedard so 4.5 million is the price they're willing to pay for a question mark pitcher they hope can bounce back. Capuano makes 7 million (6 million in salary and 1 million in a buyout which is pretty much automatic as mutual options never get picked up by both sides) So we have 2.5 million more for a certainty which seems about fair. Assuming Hanrahan is traded and Grilli is resigned you have about the following salary breakdown for the 25 man roster plus Morton who will start the year on the DL.
Catchers
Russell Martin - 7.5 million
Mike McKenry - 500 K
Infield
Garrett Jones - 4.5 million
Gaby Sanchez - 1.5 million
Neil Walker - 2.5 million
Clint Barmes - 5.5 million
Pedro Alvarez - 700K
Jordy Mercer - 500K
Josh Harrison - 500K
Outfield
Andrew McCutchen - 4.7 million
Jose Tabata - 1.2 million
Starling Marte - 500K
Travis Snider - 500K
Starting Pitchers
AJ Burnett - 8 million
Wandy Rodriguez - 8.5 million
Chris Capuano - 7 million
James McDonald - 3 million
Kyle McPherson - 500K
Charlie Morton - 2 million (DL)
Relief Pitchers
Jason Grilli - 4 million
Jared Hughes - 500K
Bryan Morris - 500K
Andy Oliver - 500K
Tony Watson - 500K
Jeff Locke - 500K
Unknown RP - 500K
That puts the payroll at about 62.1 million dollars with those moves. I figure the Pirates would be about 65 million in payroll.
Last edited 12/07/2012 11:36 AM by katoy2j
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Posted: 12/07/2012 11:43 AM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Shouldn't Russell Martin be at $8.5M? 2 years at $17M. Maybe it is $7.5M and $9.5M.
IMO, that pitching staff has a change to get to 81 wins only if JMac returns to form. If he is the pitcher of last year's first half (or even ballpark close), then all is well. If he's the mess of a pitcher he was after the A-S break, however, that's big trouble.
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Posted: 12/07/2012 11:45 AM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Martin gets a bonus, or something like that, if I recall, and without looking. I'm not sure if that's on the books for this season or next.
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Posted: 12/07/2012 11:50 AM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Yes Martin gets a salary of 7.5 million in 2013 and 9.5 million in 2014. Most contracts tend to increase in value year by year Here is a breakdown of future contracts for the Pirates spreadsheets.google.com/pub?ke...How&output=html |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 12:02 PM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Hey Katoy, when is Alvarez FA eligible? After 2015 season?
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Posted: 12/07/2012 12:28 PM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
BAMSTEELERFAN wrote: Hey Katoy, when is Alvarez FA eligible? After 2015 season? Assuming he never goes back down to the minors as he still has an option year left he will be eligible for free agency after the 2016 season |
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Posted: 12/07/2012 12:43 PM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
True, but I think the favorable team options expire after next year. In 2015 and 2016, he'll be arbitration eligible -- and his price tag will be considerably higher than it is now. For now, he's an absolute bargain.
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Posted: 12/07/2012 1:10 PM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
Yes he was asking when he will be a free agent not when he will enter arbitration.
Alvarez makes the money he makes is because he got a major league contract out of the draft so his 6.5 million dollar signing bonus or whatever it was was payed out a portion upfront and the rest over the course of 6 years. His 2014 option he can decline as he will make more money in arbitration. So unless he goes to the minors this year he will get his 3 years of arbitration like everyone else from 2014-2016. The chart does not assign salaries for arbitration numbers or for minimum salary players as those are not guaranteed in the payroll as the team could choose to non tender the player or not use that particular 0-3 player minimum salary player although he would likely just be replaced by another minimum salary player
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Posted: 12/07/2012 1:21 PM
Re: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
I like Leroux for that last slot in the pen. He showed us something in 2011, but was banged up last year.
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Posted: 12/07/2012 1:36 PM
RE: Pirates Acquire Andy Oliver for Ramon Cabrera
katoy2j wrote: Yes he was asking when he will be a free agent not when he will enter arbitration.
Alvarez makes the money he makes is because he got a major league contract out of the draft so his 6.5 million dollar signing bonus or whatever it was was payed out a portion upfront and the rest over the course of 6 years. His 2014 option he can decline as he will make more money in arbitration. So unless he goes to the minors this year he will get his 3 years of arbitration like everyone else from 2014-2016. The chart does not assign salaries for arbitration numbers or for minimum salary players as those are not guaranteed in the payroll as the team could choose to non tender the player or not use that particular 0-3 player minimum salary player although he would likely just be replaced by another minimum salary player All true. My point is that if Pedro continue to hit 30-odd HR per year and get better, he may be out of our price range if/when he's able to demand an arbitration-based salary. Prices continue to go up and up. In other words, he's still dirt cheap through next year. After that, not so much. |
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