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Ferguson protests

Posted: 8/14/2014 10:01 AM

Ferguson protests 


This situation is insane.  How can anyone be stupid enough to authorize police in riot gear to shoot tear gas into crowds of people?  Absent full-scale rioting, this should never, ever happen.  It's embarrassing.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:06 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


I thought Obama was going to end the racial divide in this country. Oh snap, you don't want to talk about Obama anymore. Sorry, dc.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:08 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


I agree, it's Obama's fault. Probably because he is on vacation.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:14 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote: This situation is insane.  How can anyone be stupid enough to authorize police in riot gear to shoot tear gas into crowds of people?  Absent full-scale rioting, this should never, ever happen.  It's embarrassing.


I've been in much less hostile crowds where the police fired tear gas to disperse the crowd.  and this was in college after Michigan won the NCAA tournament (in 1989) and college students were being a little rowdy.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:19 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


Truth is, indignation of this sort has probably increased during Obama's time in office. People have a right to organize and protest, but really, what are they protesting? Rule #1: don't try to grab a police officer's weapon - EVER.

Somebody failed that 18 year-old somewhere in life by not impressing that upon him and to me, that's where the outrage should be. Did the officer take an unnecessary precaution? Maybe, but come on, man. I've never been arrested, but I know if I ever lunged for an officer's weapon, there's a good chance I'm going to get shot. It sucks this guy is dead and there may very well have been an overreaction on the officer's part, but when we get to a place in this country where we're up in arms about an adult who lunged for a police officer's gun, we're missing the big picture.

Cops put themselves in the line of fire daily for our protection. They deserve more gratitude than what they're receiving these days. That's a shame.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:26 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



FIFAstar79 wrote: . It sucks this guy is dead and there may very well have been an overreaction on the officer's part, but when we get to a place in this country where we're up in arms about an adult who lunged for a police officer's gun, we're missing the big picture.

Cops put themselves in the line of fire daily for our protection. They deserve more gratitude than what they're receiving these days. That's a shame.


gotta agree with this.  it seems lost in this outrage (and the outrage over the alleged choking death in Staten Island) is that in both cases, the victim went after the police first - be it attacking the cop and going for his gun in Missouri or resisting arrest in SI.

now this doesn't excuse the excessive use of force.  if the officers' in question acted improperly, they should be sanctioned.

the loss of life is tragic.  i feel for the respective families.  but in both cases, to some degree, the victim brought it upon himself by either resisting arrest and going after a cop's gun.

btw - where are the civil rights protestors and the good reverend sharpton when black kids kill other black kids?  where are they when a black kid kills a white kid?  why is it only when a white man kills a black man that we get outrage?

Last edited 8/14/2014 10:28 AM by hobson54

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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:30 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



hobson54 wrote:
dcmets wrote: This situation is insane.  How can anyone be stupid enough to authorize police in riot gear to shoot tear gas into crowds of people?  Absent full-scale rioting, this should never, ever happen.  It's embarrassing.


I've been in much less hostile crowds where the police fired tear gas to disperse the crowd.  and this was in college after Michigan won the NCAA tournament (in 1989) and college students were being a little rowdy.
I doubt the crowds were less rowdy after Michigan won the title.  Im sure there were thousands of people partying in Ann Arbor, and while they were probably not rioting,  it's still more of a crowd control issue in that context.  That said, I still think that would be embarrassing, too.  There is no excuse for militarized police to shoot rubber bullets and tear gas into a crowd unless there is full scale rioting.  They basically shot into peaceful protests.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:32 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



hobson54 wrote:
FIFAstar79 wrote: . It sucks this guy is dead and there may very well have been an overreaction on the officer's part, but when we get to a place in this country where we're up in arms about an adult who lunged for a police officer's gun, we're missing the big picture.

Cops put themselves in the line of fire daily for our protection. They deserve more gratitude than what they're receiving these days. That's a shame.


gotta agree with this.  it seems lost in this outrage (and the outrage over the alleged choking death in Staten Island) is that in both cases, the victim went after the police first - be it attacking the cop and going for his gun in Missouri or resisting arrest in SI.

now this doesn't excuse the excessive use of force.  if the officers' in question acted improperly, they should be sanctioned.

the loss of life is tragic.  i feel for the respective families.  but in both cases, to some degree, the victim brought it upon himself by either resisting arrest and going after a cop's gun.

btw - where are the civil rights protestors and the good reverend sharpton when black kids kill other black kids?  where are they when a black kid kills a white kid?  why is it only when a white man kills a black man that we get outrage?
Since the police wont talk about it, we dont know the facts of the case, so how do you know he grabbed the officers gun?  How do you know he was resisting arrest?  What was he being arrested for?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:35 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote:
hobson54 wrote:
dcmets wrote: This situation is insane.  How can anyone be stupid enough to authorize police in riot gear to shoot tear gas into crowds of people?  Absent full-scale rioting, this should never, ever happen.  It's embarrassing.


I've been in much less hostile crowds where the police fired tear gas to disperse the crowd.  and this was in college after Michigan won the NCAA tournament (in 1989) and college students were being a little rowdy.
I doubt the crowds were less rowdy after Michigan won the title.  Im sure there were thousands of people partying in Ann Arbor, and while they were probably not rioting,  it's still more of a crowd control issue in that context.  That said, I still think that would be embarrassing, too.  There is no excuse for militarized police to shoot rubber bullets and tear gas into a crowd unless there is full scale rioting.  They basically shot into peaceful protests.


I've read reports of protesters throwing Molotov cocktails and bottles at the police.  there's also been reports of looting of stores and smashed windows.  so I'm not so sure this were all peaceful protests.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:45 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote:
hobson54 wrote:
FIFAstar79 wrote: . It sucks this guy is dead and there may very well have been an overreaction on the officer's part, but when we get to a place in this country where we're up in arms about an adult who lunged for a police officer's gun, we're missing the big picture.

Cops put themselves in the line of fire daily for our protection. They deserve more gratitude than what they're receiving these days. That's a shame.


gotta agree with this.  it seems lost in this outrage (and the outrage over the alleged choking death in Staten Island) is that in both cases, the victim went after the police first - be it attacking the cop and going for his gun in Missouri or resisting arrest in SI.

now this doesn't excuse the excessive use of force.  if the officers' in question acted improperly, they should be sanctioned.

the loss of life is tragic.  i feel for the respective families.  but in both cases, to some degree, the victim brought it upon himself by either resisting arrest and going after a cop's gun.

btw - where are the civil rights protestors and the good reverend sharpton when black kids kill other black kids?  where are they when a black kid kills a white kid?  why is it only when a white man kills a black man that we get outrage?
Since the police wont talk about it, we dont know the facts of the case, so how do you know he grabbed the officers gun?  How do you know he was resisting arrest?  What was he being arrested for?



in the Ferguson case, the initial reports from the police said that Brown lunged at the officer and attempted to take his gun.  now i will admit that witnesses dispute this testimony, so there is a bit of he-said-she-said.  so i was going on what the St Louis county police chief said:


http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson -michael-brown-what-we-know/index.html

That Brown was unarmed is undisputed -- St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said every casing found at the scene was from the officer's weapon -- but he said at a Sunday news conference that Brown was not an innocent victim.

"The genesis of this was a physical confrontation," Belmar said, adding that Ferguson police asked his office to investigate the case.


Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said.




as to resisting arrest, that had to do with the Staten Island case, where a police officer choked to death someone who was resisting arrest.  now this very well may have been a case of excessive use of force.  that is to be determined.  but the person was reportedly resisting arrest when the alleged choke happened.  again, it's another he-said-she-said case, so i grant it's not 100% clear cut.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/05/us-usa-n ew-york-chokehold-idUSKBN0G51PB20140805
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Posted: 8/14/2014 10:59 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


The idea that cops are just going around randomly shooting minorities is pretty much ludicrous, but that's the narrative that has been perpetrated in recent years by the media and unfortunately, by the White House. I have full faith that if this cop really did that out of malice, there's enough upstanding officers who would take him to task. This isn't Neshoba County, Mississippi. It's St. Louis.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:02 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


What's ludicrous is you saying that people are complaining about cops randomly shooting minorities. No one said that. The problem is racial profiling and the amount of force used by police, and the absurdity of police in riot gearing using tear gas to make people peacefully disperse.  Those are legitimate things for civil rights advocates to speak about.

Last edited 8/14/2014 11:03 AM by dcmets

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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:03 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



FIFAstar79 wrote: The idea that cops are just going around randomly shooting minorities is pretty much ludicrous, but that's the narrative that has been perpetrated in recent years by the media and unfortunately, by the White House. I have full faith that if this cop really did that out of malice, there's enough upstanding officers who would take him to task. This isn't Neshoba County, Mississippi. It's St. Louis.


honestly think this has nothing to do with Obama.  this type of stuff happened before he took office and the usual suspects (i.e the Al Sharpton's of the world) would be all over it, along with some parts of a compliant press.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:05 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



hobson54 wrote:
FIFAstar79 wrote: The idea that cops are just going around randomly shooting minorities is pretty much ludicrous, but that's the narrative that has been perpetrated in recent years by the media and unfortunately, by the White House. I have full faith that if this cop really did that out of malice, there's enough upstanding officers who would take him to task. This isn't Neshoba County, Mississippi. It's St. Louis.


honestly think this has nothing to do with Obama.  this type of stuff happened before he took office and the usual suspects (i.e the Al Sharpton's of the world) would be all over it, along with some parts of a compliant press.
So, you dont think this is something that people should cover as a story?  Police in riot gear in suburban St. Louis?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:12 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote:
hobson54 wrote:
FIFAstar79 wrote: The idea that cops are just going around randomly shooting minorities is pretty much ludicrous, but that's the narrative that has been perpetrated in recent years by the media and unfortunately, by the White House. I have full faith that if this cop really did that out of malice, there's enough upstanding officers who would take him to task. This isn't Neshoba County, Mississippi. It's St. Louis.


honestly think this has nothing to do with Obama.  this type of stuff happened before he took office and the usual suspects (i.e the Al Sharpton's of the world) would be all over it, along with some parts of a compliant press.
So, you dont think this is something that people should cover as a story?  Police in riot gear in suburban St. Louis?


the current situation (police in riot gear, Molotov cocktails, rioting and looting) is news worthy.  the fact that this incident gained national attention is because people like Al Sharpton are using it as a platform to push their agenda.

there are a lot of white people, or even black people, shot dead by black people.  that never leads to protests.  

this may well have been a case of excessive use of force.  i don't know the details.  but the protests, which have not been as peaceful as you make it out to be (do a google search for Ferguson Molotov cocktail or Ferguson looting), are because people want to make it some national referendum on an isolated incident.

it very well may be a tragedy what happened here.  but there are hundreds and hundreds of tragedies of people shot dead for no reason that don't lead to riots.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:17 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



hobson54 wrote:
FIFAstar79 wrote: The idea that cops are just going around randomly shooting minorities is pretty much ludicrous, but that's the narrative that has been perpetrated in recent years by the media and unfortunately, by the White House. I have full faith that if this cop really did that out of malice, there's enough upstanding officers who would take him to task. This isn't Neshoba County, Mississippi. It's St. Louis.


honestly think this has nothing to do with Obama.  this type of stuff happened before he took office and the usual suspects (i.e the Al Sharpton's of the world) would be all over it, along with some parts of a compliant press.


Two things: the narrative around the Obama campaign was that racial harmony would prevail and he did his part to stoke the flames of the Trayvon Martin thing before it ever went to trial, which could've been considered jury tampering.  In other words, it's only gotten worse under his rule, not better... similar to the Middle East, Russia and just about everything else he's touched with his supernatural touch.

Last edited 8/14/2014 11:27 AM by FIFAstar79

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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



hobson54 wrote:

So, you dont think this is something that people should cover as a story?  Police in riot gear in suburban St. Louis?


the current situation (police in riot gear, Molotov cocktails, rioting and looting) is news worthy.  the fact that this incident gained national attention is because people like Al Sharpton are using it as a platform to push their agenda.

there are a lot of white people, or even black people, shot dead by black people.  that never leads to protests.  

this may well have been a case of excessive use of force.  i don't know the details.  but the protests, which have not been as peaceful as you make it out to be (do a google search for Ferguson Molotov cocktail or Ferguson looting), are because people want to make it some national referendum on an isolated incident.

it very well may be a tragedy what happened here.  but there are hundreds and hundreds of tragedies of people shot dead for no reason that don't lead to riots.
Really?  Most of the time, people who are shot dead for no reason, especially by the police, garner an awful lot of attention, as they should.  This story had little to do with Al Sharpton. It blew up on social media hours after it happened.  I remember reading about it.  

The riots are happening because of the circumstances of shooting an unarmed 18 year old 10 times and police have been tone deaf, not because Al Sharpton and activists showed up. 

Do you think if a 18 year old white kid was gunned down in the middle of the day by the police, it wouldnt be a story, with a lot of tension if the police decided not to give a lot of details?

Last edited 8/14/2014 11:25 AM by dcmets

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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:35 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote:
Do you think if a 18 year old white kid was gunned down in the middle of the day by the police, it wouldnt be a story, with a lot of tension if the police decided not to give a lot of details?


i find it hard to believe that if this happened, that we would be seeing riots on the streets.  i doubt people would be looting and smashing store windows.  i doubt people would be throwing molotov cocktails at police.  do you think these things (rioting, looting, throwing molotov cocktails at police) would happen if the scenario played out like you say above?

i'm all in favor of investigating what happened, and if it is determined that the police used excessive force, that the officer be sanctioned or possibly face charges if it was a criminal act.  and the police are investigating the matter.
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:47 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 


I dont understand your point? What are you suggesting? That white people act more civilly when innocent teens are murdered because Al Sharpton doesnt rile them up? The people who looted were an extreme minority and they are criminals who take advantage of the situation. 99% of the people there are peacefully protesting.

Im sure that if an innocent white teen was murdered, there might be a few people who acted badly, too. So?
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Posted: 8/14/2014 11:48 AM

Re: Ferguson protests 



dcmets wrote: Im sure that if an innocent white teen was murdered, there might be a few people who acted badly, too. So?


Name the incident.  Give us one example.
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