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Morsi issues power decree

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Posted: 11/23/2012 9:01 AM

Morsi issues power decree 


Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.

Last edited 11/23/2012 9:08 AM by DocK16

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Posted: 11/23/2012 11:25 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DocK16 wrote: Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.
pretty ironic that this is what democratic elections in the ME becomes in just a few short months.  I certainly hope that the religious party's ruling tenure is very short there, but I am skeptical it will lead to any change in leadership.  As I said, massive unrest will become the norm in the arab world.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:27 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote: Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.
pretty ironic that this is what democratic elections in the ME becomes in just a few short months.  I certainly hope that the religious party's ruling tenure is very short there, but I am skeptical it will lead to any change in leadership.  As I said, massive unrest will become the norm in the arab world.

Most definitely.  However, the people of Egypt seemed to accept and respect the results of their election.  Morsi's power grab caused this unrest.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:20 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DocK16 wrote:
DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote: Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.
pretty ironic that this is what democratic elections in the ME becomes in just a few short months.  I certainly hope that the religious party's ruling tenure is very short there, but I am skeptical it will lead to any change in leadership.  As I said, massive unrest will become the norm in the arab world.

Most definitely.  However, the people of Egypt seemed to accept and respect the results of their election.  Morsi's power grab caused this unrest.
and he will suppress the rights of the people just like every other middle eastern arab leader has done.  thinking that a leader coming from the religious party would be any different was where many people went wrong.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:50 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote: Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.
pretty ironic that this is what democratic elections in the ME becomes in just a few short months.  I certainly hope that the religious party's ruling tenure is very short there, but I am skeptical it will lead to any change in leadership.  As I said, massive unrest will become the norm in the arab world.

Most definitely.  However, the people of Egypt seemed to accept and respect the results of their election.  Morsi's power grab caused this unrest.
and he will suppress the rights of the people just like every other middle eastern arab leader has done.  thinking that a leader coming from the religious party would be any different was where many people went wrong.

Leaders have been suppressing their people since the dawn of civilization.  Lets not act like this is strictly a ME issue, or like previously suppressed peoples have never learned from past mistakes.

I'll grant you that democracy and the ME are hardly synonymous, but until recently democracy itself has only existed sparingly throughout history.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:17 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DocK16 wrote:
DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
DuffyDyer wrote:
DocK16 wrote: Egyptian protestors procede to torch MB offices.

Told you so, Va. biggrin

These young people in Egypt and throughout the ME, who fuel these kinds of protests, are a hell of a lot more concerned with opportunity, self-determination, and their own well-being than they are fundamentalism and ideology.
pretty ironic that this is what democratic elections in the ME becomes in just a few short months.  I certainly hope that the religious party's ruling tenure is very short there, but I am skeptical it will lead to any change in leadership.  As I said, massive unrest will become the norm in the arab world.

Most definitely.  However, the people of Egypt seemed to accept and respect the results of their election.  Morsi's power grab caused this unrest.
and he will suppress the rights of the people just like every other middle eastern arab leader has done.  thinking that a leader coming from the religious party would be any different was where many people went wrong.

Leaders have been suppressing their people since the dawn of civilization.  Lets not act like this is strictly a ME issue, or like previously suppressed peoples have never learned from past mistakes.

I'll grant you that democracy and the ME are hardly synonymous, but until recently democracy itself has only existed sparingly throughout history.
While I am happy that they are protesting his power grab, I am not hopeful at all.  He is putting his people in place in the army and judiciary, the only 2 institutions that could potentially challenge him.  This is starting to look like "one man, one vote, one time" 

The only thing I think breaks this up is for the regime to commit  suicide and directly attack Israel.  the Egyptian army may be proud, but it is no match for the IDF.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:49 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


I take it you'd prefer a strongman the likes of Mubarak or Saddam who can keep the peace?  That's the easy route... until it isn't.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:14 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DocK16 wrote: I take it you'd prefer a strongman the likes of Mubarak or Saddam who can keep the peace?  That's the easy route... until it isn't.
No.  It would be better if the Muslim world would go ahead and have its reformation before you had democracy.

The next best result would be to have their populations feel the full impact of Islamist rule.  After all they did vote both Hamas and The Muslim Brotherhood into office.  For instance, If Hamas wants to launch rockets. then the rest of the world shouldn't call on Israel to have restraint.  If you elect warmongerers or suicidebombers, then you deserve to have Israel wreck your country after they(hamas or mbz) inevitably start a war.  It might just clarify the public's thinking.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:18 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


I'd argue we're likely to see a combination of both forces move the ME towards a more democratic, peaceful existence.  Perhaps not in the near future, but definitely in our future.  I think the ME is already undergoing a mini reformation.  I also think that as the people become better educated, not just through schooling but through the dissemination of ideas and information through social media, which is happening, they'll get more and more exposed to ideals that are often necessary for democracy to flourish.

Of course, there'll be massive bumps in the road, just as there have been in the formation of nearly ever democracy in modern history.  But bumps in the road shouldn't be misconstrued as evidence that these people are a bunch of barbarians incapable of ruling themselves.  That's a cultural misunderstanding more than anything.

Last edited 11/24/2012 7:27 PM by DocK16

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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:34 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DocK16 wrote: I'd argue we're likely to see a combination of both forces move the ME towards a more democratic, peaceful existence.  Perhaps not in the near future, but definitely in our future.  I think the ME is already undergoing a mini reformation.  I also think that as the people become better educated, not just through schooling but through the dissemination of ideas and information through social media, which is happening, they'll get more and more exposed to ideals that are often necessary for democracy to flourish.

Of course, there'll be massive bumps in the road, just as there have been in the formation of nearly ever democracy in modern history.  But bumps in the road shouldn't be misconstrued as evidence that these people are a bunch of barbarians incapable of ruling themselves.  That's a cultural misunderstanding more than anything.
Gazans celebrating in the streets after losing 140+ people and having a bunch of neighborhoods destroyed while 3 or 4 Israelis lost their lives in the 10 day or so skirmish is all you need to know about cultural misunderstanding.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:47 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


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Posted: 11/26/2012 9:44 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


and how long will it be before Morsi declares himself President for Life?  laugh.gif
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 11/29/2012 12:48 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 



DuffyDyer wrote: and how long will it be before Morsi declares himself President for Life?  laugh.gif
Maybe Morsi (USC grad) will call on his fellow Trojan alums Schwarzkopf to help run his army, OJ Simpson can handle any of his legal battles, Mark McGuire can be his personal trainer, and Ronnie Lott and Polumalu can safely guard his backside.
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:51 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


The Mob might be worse than Morsi

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_...ypts-women?lite
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:27 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


more civil unrest in Egypt.  What a freakin' banana republic.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 12/11/2012 1:34 AM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


Morsi "gives up" newly acquired powers but wants to keep all the changes he put in place before he gave it up.  Wow.  Ballsy.  Just for a reference point, Is this kind of like a US executive orders against assasination, then when we need to take our someone like Bin Laden, a new executive order allowing it is signed, then having a new one in place forbidding it again.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 2/28/2013 2:17 PM

Re: Morsi issues power decree 


http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_...mist-state?lite


SO, does democracy protect minority rights or not.  Some in Egypt certainly have their doubts.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 3/2/2013 7:32 PM

RE: Morsi issues power decree 


As an American of African descent, I would say it will take 350 years or so. Primarily because there are constituencies who benefit from the denial of minority rights. The people that benefit are able to convince the political base to support denying equality.

I believe that all societies are governed by competing oligarchies whether communist or democracies. But, democracy limits the abuses these oligarchies use.
"Friend Romans & Country Men Lend Me an Ear"  Hannibal Lecture in Florence.  Recipe from the Grand Dictionaire de Cuisine, (1873), Alexandre Dumas.
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Posted: 8/15/2013 1:01 PM

RE: Morsi issues power decree 


I am starting to believe, that the best thing that could happen in Egypt is Miltary rule for a while.  The greater good at this point is to maintain peace with Israel, and for 30 plus years the Egyptian military has played a constructive role in that peace.  We have also seen what Islamist mean by democracy-It means one man, one vote, one time, with no respect towards minority rights.  The sad fact is that the rest of Egyptian civil society is too weak at this point in time to resist.  It was actually quite predictable though,  The Muslim Brotherhood was pretty much the best organized entity going into hastily arranged elections.  Perhaps the South Korean/Chilean model would work better. A military dictatorship, that reforms the economy, which gives strength to civil society, and then democracy. 

Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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