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Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al)

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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:27 PM

Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al) 


Much of interest here, from a snippet standpoint - so i'll keep it on the main board.....

time for the mets to find out what the kids can do.


The Mets have decided to hand the season over to their kids, so we’ll be seeing a lot more of Fernando Martinez and Josh Thole this month and next. No, wait. Wrong year. You’ll be seeing a lot more of Wilmer Flores and Matt den Dekker. And a time to every purpose under heaven.

 

Anyway, this coincides with our recent trip to Vegas to report this story on the agonizing maturation of Noah Syndergaard. The process of reporting that piece involved many conversations with scouts outside the organization, evaluators employed by the Mets, players in the Mets’ system, and a few opponents.

 

When you’re talking to people, you pick up other nuggets and opinions. And, you know, why not pass them along?

 

-- Las Vegas teammates are impressed by out-of-nowhere infield prospect Matt Reynolds, with some saying he is both a better hitter and fielder than Ruben Tejada. Added one rival evaluator, comparing Reynolds to Wilmer Flores at short: “Better hands, comparable range.”

 

-- Speaking of Flores, here are two more answers I got from Mets people after asking if Reynolds was a better defensive shortstop than Flores: 1. “Flores is not a shortstop.” 2. “(laughter).” Those were real answers.

 

-- Catcher Kevin Plawecki has impressed at Vegas because of his ability to make contact and positive clubhouse presence, but the view down in many corners there is that Travis d’Arnaud’s offensive ceiling is considerably higher, with much more power potential.

 

Additionally, one opposing hitter noted that Plawecki appeared to struggle in calling the game on Thursday for Noah Syndergaard. Syndergaard shook him off a lot, leading the opponent to say, “it seemed like Plawecki was having a hard time getting on the same page.”

 

-- Some people are still asking me about Cesar Puello. The answer is still no.

 

-- Rafael Montero, who surprised many with his lack of command when promoted to the big leagues earlier this season, has his control back. Not only that, but he was topping out at 95mph in a recent start, and still throwing strikes. Ready for another prime time audition, which he is about to receive.

 

-- Players and evaluators consider it laughable that hitting coach Lamar Johnson has made a difference since replacing Dave Hudgens, as some fans seem to believe. This is not so much a knock on Johnson, but a reiteration of the view inside baseball that the hitting coach position is not a significant one.

 

-- Holy glowing reviews for Double-A second baseman Dilson Herrera, acquired in the Marlon Byrd/John Buck trade last August. The scouts love, love, love them some Herrera.

 

-- Remember last year, when Zack Wheeler told John Harper that it was difficult to pitch in Vegas, and a bit of a stir ensued? Syndergaard had a similar take on what the dry air did to his grip and breaking ball.

 

“I can’t really complain much,” Syndergaard said. “It’s just another ballpark, not that different. It’s kind of hard to throw a breaking pitch here, because the ball doesn’t break nearly as much, and your hands get really dry, so it’s hard to grip pitches.”

 

As with Syndergaard’s comments in the main story, a quick read could make this look like an excuse. But trust me, as someone standing there when he spoke; this was a kid being honest, nothing more. Syndergaard deserves much credit for this.


http://www.nydailynews.com/blo...entry-1.1900447

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 8/12/2014 12:40 PM by Walnutz15

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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:39 PM

Re: Martino's Notes From Vegas 


Also worth the click to read his Syndergaard piece from Saturday, which I haven't seen linked here - other than some quotes I've scattered across threads.  [this story]

Like that Backman's been challenging him.

 

That assessment is no harsher than the pitcher’s own view, and the scout noticed another issue that Syndergaard and coaches have identified: “He works too slowly. I think if he speeds himself up, he’ll be better.”

He does tend to labor, and overthink, on nights when his stuff isn’t quite there. Thursday brought progress, as Syndergaard was able to manage his difficulties in a way that he calls “night and day” from what he would have done in April.

This is in part a result of Backman’s tough-love decision to leave Syndergaard on the mound when he is struggling. A few months ago, the kid might have cast furtive, “aren’t you coming to get me?” glances toward the dugout; now, the young man is learning to push through.


“When he does get in those situations, I want to see him pitch himself out of it,” Backman says. “It builds character, so you’re not always looking over your shoulder, so he wants the ball in his hand, to dictate what’s going to happen.

  “There is so much hype. He has been so built up. And the stuff is definitely there, no question. For him to have to pitch out of trouble, like I said, it builds character.”

It’s not necessarily fun, this process of becoming. The rewards are sweet, but that is later. The grinding to get there? Exhausting.

“It’s hard to make adjustments,” Syndergaard says, once again nailing it, “but that’s the big step, and what separates a minor league pitcher from a big league pitcher.”

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Martino's Notes From Vegas 


Love Backman's approach.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


Thanks, Walnutz.

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Posted: 8/12/2014 1:06 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


Nice read. I'm starting to become a bit intrigued with Reynolds. Also great to hear Dilson getting love from scouts on top of his great numbers. It's wheel and deal time for Sandy in the offseason, as Plawecki, Dilson and some veteran pitchers should definitely be on the move.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:05 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


I wouldn't trade Herrera or Plawecki unless they brought back a big time MLB upgrade.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:19 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



spiritOF86 wrote: Nice read. I'm starting to become a bit intrigued with Reynolds. Also great to hear Dilson getting love from scouts on top of his great numbers. It's wheel and deal time for Sandy in the offseason, as Plawecki, Dilson and some veteran pitchers should definitely be on the move.

Can't see trading Herrera, he may be the best offensive player to come up in years.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:27 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.

Last edited 8/12/2014 3:28 PM by RSVandy

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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:29 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


"Players and evaluators consider it laughable that hitting coach Lamar Johnson has made a difference since replacing Dave Hudgens, as some fans seem to believe. This is not so much a knock on Johnson, but a reiteration of the view inside baseball that the hitting coach position is not a significant one."

So, players and evaluators find the idea that a hitting coach effected the hitting of one of the players he coaches "laughable." I'm pretty surprised by this statement. Why are we paying a hitting coach if no one thinks they make a difference? If they do make a difference, why do our players feel that very notion is "laughable?" I don't really hear anyone suggesting that teams shouldn't employ hitting coaches. So, do they think teams should pay hitting coaches, even though they don't have an effect on the players they coach, because they're lifetime baseball guys who just deserve money for doing something everyone believes is pointless? 

Something doesn't add up here!
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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:44 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


"Why are we paying a hitting coach if no one thinks they make a difference?"

I suppose it makes a difference who thinks what is valuable. My organization thinks there is value is me being accountable to a higher-up and I think I can manage myself enough that it is a waste of their time [and thus company money], to even have me report to someone.

Hell it is a further waste of money since, some of the time they are paying me for I end up doing one-on-ones and writing evaluations, etc when I could be doing something more productive.

But, it isn't my decision, so no matter what I think there is someone further up who thinks it is a good idea...
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Posted: 8/12/2014 3:54 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
I would rather package the first two with Niese.  I know he's our only lefty but I have a bad feeling that shoulder is gonna go.  That said, opposing teams would perhaps rather have Montero than Niese for the same exact reason--that pesky shoulder.  

I hate to say, but maybe we should've moved Wright in the last year of his deal.  Imagine having that money back with Murphy at third and Wilmer at second (or vice versa) with Reynolds and Herrera waiting.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 4:12 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



erosen wrote: "Why are we paying a hitting coach if no one thinks they make a difference?"

I suppose it makes a difference who thinks what is valuable. My organization thinks there is value is me being accountable to a higher-up and I think I can manage myself enough that it is a waste of their time [and thus company money], to even have me report to someone.

Hell it is a further waste of money since, some of the time they are paying me for I end up doing one-on-ones and writing evaluations, etc when I could be doing something more productive.

But, it isn't my decision, so no matter what I think there is someone further up who thinks it is a good idea...
Do your co-workers as well as observers of your industry agree that to supervise you in that manner is "laughable," as the notion of a hitting coach effecting a hitter's performance were described (if they do, then I think the same questions could be asked about your job)? "Laughable" implies that there is no credible argument to be made for the other position. They are saying that it is "laughable" to believe that changing the hitting coach could have had an effect on the team's hitting. Yet, we still have a hitting coach. So, I agree with the notion that that means that someone further up thinks it is a good idea. But the real question is: is it?

What is the effect of the hitting coach? If it can be shown using some kind of reasonable evidence that a hitting coach has an appreciable effect, then we shouldn't just let our players go around laughing at the idea that coaching can help them. And if it can't be shown, then are we just employing someone who is providing no return to the organization (and therefore represents wasted or at least misused money)? 

I'm not suggesting we should not have a hitting coach. I'm just wondering if this is one of those things were everyone goes through the motions of something, despite no one believing in it, just because no one wants to be the one who upsets the apple cart, so to speak. Organizations that spend their time and money doing things they don't believe in, which won't positively effect the organization, are misusing their time and money. I'd like to see us not be one of those organizations! tongue
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Posted: 8/12/2014 4:40 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 


Someone hit the nail on the head.  If hitting coaches are of no value why would anyone pay big bucks for them?  Obviously, they do serve a purpose.  For one, a good hitting coach can work with a hitter in helping to spot his flaws or what he may be unaware he is doing to have caused a decline in his hitting. 

Two, a good hitting coach may also have useful suggestions to help a hitter become even better.  For example, Keith Hernandez was talking about how Matt denDekker was advised to lower his hands in his stance and explained how that helped to speed up his bat.

So, Martino's comments about the hitting coach is of no value just means Martino is a complete moron.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:03 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



dondada10 wrote:
RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
I would rather package the first two with Niese.  I know he's our only lefty but I have a bad feeling that shoulder is gonna go.  That said, opposing teams would perhaps rather have Montero than Niese for the same exact reason--that pesky shoulder.  

I hate to say, but maybe we should've moved Wright in the last year of his deal.  Imagine having that money back with Murphy at third and Wilmer at second (or vice versa) with Reynolds and Herrera waiting.
If Heyman is right and Niese got thru waivers, then the rest of the leagues is on to Niese and his diminished velocity.
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Posted: 8/12/2014 5:31 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 





---------------------------------------------
--- oct271986 wrote:


dondada10 wrote:
RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
I would rather package the first two with Niese.  I know he's our only lefty but I have a bad feeling that shoulder is gonna go.  That said, opposing teams would perhaps rather have Montero than Niese for the same exact reason--that pesky shoulder.  

I hate to say, but maybe we should've moved Wright in the last year of his deal.  Imagine having that money back with Murphy at third and Wilmer at second (or vice versa) with Reynolds and Herrera waiting.
If Heyman is right and Niese got thru waivers, then the rest of the leagues is on to Niese and his diminished velocity.

---------------------------------------------

Think that both clearing waivers speaks more to what their actual trade value at this point would be, than anything.

Plenty of red flags associated with Niese already (diminished velocity + rarely makes it through a full season), as his salary starts to escalate*** - and Granderson doesn't seem to have anybody busting down the doors to trade for him, either.

I'd doubt that either player is being guarded as an "untouchable" ---- at least I'd hope, anyway. Though, unless the FO has some kind of detour plan, I'd imagine Granderson's pretty important to this lineup. He'll, he's been relied upon to lead off for a significant chunk of 2014. Dude's a good soldier.


*** - Here's Niese's deal, going forward:

2015: $7 million,
2016: $9 million,
2017: $10 million ($500,000 buyout),
2018: $10.5 million ($500,000 buyout)

Yes, it's always been pointed to as "team friendly" and beneficial to the Mets.....not disputed, especially in having seen how crazy the money's gotten for certain starting pitchers. However, anything at all goes on with regard to his already questionable health status - and that starts to look more like "sunk cost"-type money for an already sketchy payroll like the Mets. If not "sunk cost", then certainly - "re-assess from what you used to think of him"....but again, that's worst-case talk.

Hopefully, he's past his arm issues.....and can provide us with solid value for the length of his contract. And if not, then let it be to our advantage somehow by his inclusion in a package deal for something worthwhile in exchange.

I've never been married to Niese, and it's unlikely to ever be that way for me as he ages. Just my gut.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 8/12/2014 5:40 PM by Walnutz15

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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:22 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
Not only is that a decent package for someone-but most of all, we don't need any of those guys so it wouldn't hurt much. Question is, how good of a hitter does that get you?
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Posted: 8/12/2014 7:26 PM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



danfran wrote:
RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
Not only is that a decent package for someone-but most of all, we don't need any of those guys so it wouldn't hurt much. Question is, how good of a hitter does that get you?
It should be a pretty good hitter. That's two top 50ish prospects and another solid one in Wilmer, all of whom are MLB ready or about to be MLB ready. A team would be getting a 2B, C, and a SP all of whom could start next season.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 12:49 AM

Re: Martino's Notes From Vegas 





---------------------------------------------
--- EddyBarzoon wrote:

Love Backman's approach.

---------------------------------------------

It's actually incredibly stupid on Backman's part and if I were Sandy I would address it immediately. Just speaks more to his counterproductive, old school mentality. Backman isn't actually making Noah tougher, what he's doing is exposing him to greater levels of risk and strain. When a guy is laboring, he last thing you want to do is leave him out there, because those pitches experienced "battling" come with greater effort and strain than those when a pitcher is in a groove. Backman acts like he's doing Noah a favor, but he really isn't. Yet another example of his ego having a potentially negative impact.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 7:37 AM

Re: Martino: Vegas Notes (Syndergaard, Reynolds, Plawecki, et al 



dondada10 wrote:
RSVandy wrote: Herrera needs to stay. Though the Mets should try to package Plawecki with a pitcher for someone. A Plawecki+Wilmer+Montero package would be pretty good for another team.
I would rather package the first two with Niese.  I know he's our only lefty but I have a bad feeling that shoulder is gonna go.  That said, opposing teams would perhaps rather have Montero than Niese for the same exact reason--that pesky shoulder.  

I hate to say, but maybe we should've moved Wright in the last year of his deal.  Imagine having that money back with Murphy at third and Wilmer at second (or vice versa) with Reynolds and Herrera waiting.
Alas, Niese does not have much market value these days, at least not as much as one would think. Syndergaard is highly valued, except that value has been tarnished a bit by his performance this year. So Noah's value is probably lower than we would have expected or like.

The guy who has the best value at this point IMO is Wheeler. But I'm sure most Met fans would balk at trading him. But he has the highest market value of the young pitchers.

So I would expect a package of Wheeler + Plawecki + Flores as the starting point for a trade of Tulo.

But.....shouldn't the Mets have some second thoughts about Tulo?  I'm now reading that Tulo is having some issues with his hip. Remember Delgado?  This should be a red flag.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 8:10 AM

Re: Martino's Notes From Vegas 



DocK16 wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- EddyBarzoon wrote:

Love Backman's approach.

---------------------------------------------

It's actually incredibly stupid on Backman's part and if I were Sandy I would address it immediately. Just speaks more to his counterproductive, old school mentality. Backman isn't actually making Noah tougher, what he's doing is exposing him to greater levels of risk and strain. When a guy is laboring, he last thing you want to do is leave him out there, because those pitches experienced "battling" come with greater effort and strain than those when a pitcher is in a groove. Backman acts like he's doing Noah a favor, but he really isn't. Yet another example of his ego having a potentially negative impact.
Agree to disagree......

Much has been made of Wally Backman's ego, and how negatively it would impact everyone around him - rippling the space-time continuum, and - as a result - destroying the entire baseball universe.

I see nothing wrong with challenging a 6' 6", 240lb. kid to potentially work through mound issues without his best stuff.  To me, this becomes a big part of the reason why so many kids the Mets bring up to the Big League level have flat out crumbled --- they haven't been challenged at the lower levels.

I prefer it, over the "coddle school" methodology.  If a guy's gonna get hurt, he's gonna get hurt.


MetsandPanic wrote: Thanks, Walnutz.

- anytime.


AUDIT wrote:

Alas, Niese does not have much market value these days, at least not as much as one would think.

Agreed.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 8/13/2014 8:36 AM by Walnutz15

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