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ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey...

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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:16 PM

ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


Harvey racking up the K's this spring... K's the first 2.

Make it 3 w/ M. Cabrera.

Just legitimizing his TOR status.

"Seen It All"

loyal_Jues (IG)

Last edited 3/24/2013 1:17 PM by Gstacks177

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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:25 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


Harvey and Wheeler are going to be something else.  Won't take much to get this team back to respectability imo. 

The pen still needs work, but if Wright, Ike, and D'Arnaud do their part, and players like Murphy, Tejada, and Cowgill hold their own, we're an OFer away from being okay.

Last edited 3/24/2013 1:26 PM by DocK16

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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:29 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:31 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


4 K's out of 5 outs for MH.

"Seen It All"

loyal_Jues (IG)

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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:47 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



DocK16 wrote: Harvey and Wheeler are going to be something else.  Won't take much to get this team back to respectability imo. 

The pen still needs work, but if Wright, Ike, and D'Arnaud do their part, and players like Murphy, Tejada, and Cowgill hold their own, we're an OFer away from being okay.
  no guarantee there.... I think Harvey will be... but sold on Wheeler yet.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:52 PM

RE: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


If not, Wheeler, tnen Montero or Syndergaard or DeGrom or Tapia, or....
"Friend Romans & Country Men Lend Me an Ear"  Hannibal Lecture in Florence.  Recipe from the Grand Dictionaire de Cuisine, (1873), Alexandre Dumas.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:54 PM

RE: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


yeah the depth in the system w/ the pitching is nice... if someone doesn't pan out, hopefully someone else will.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:55 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)


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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:57 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


Equally rough 2nd inning as the first inning was good. Bt I love the way Harvey is knocking those hitters off the plate. Lots of pitches up and in. More of that all year, please.

Mdd has been crazy defensively. Just such a shame he's so bad a hitter with a preternatural strikeout rate that's unlikely to come down enough. What exactly were the scouting reports on his defense? Was he always considered gold glove caliber? Because I don't seem to recall any effusive reports on it the past couple of years. But with all the wishes for getting Bourne in large part for great D in Cf it appears we have that part of the equation much cheaper and younger. Just too bad you can't have a designated fielder.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 1:59 PM

RE: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


at every level MDD has played people have hailed him as one of the best they have ever seen defensively. His bat is playable in the majors IMO... he will ultimately adjust at every level.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:00 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:01 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


check this catch going all the way back to college.  WOW!

Link


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:03 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



DocK16 wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
  i disagree there have been players who have played in the big leagues and had good careers even striking out a ton.  He just has to produce w/ the bat.  if he hits .260-.270 hits 15hr and steals 20+ bags + his glove he plays in the big leagues.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:04 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 




---------------------------------------------
--- xmulderx wrote:

check this catch going all the way back to college.  WOW!

Link

---------------------------------------------

My goodness. Guy is a warlock out there.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:09 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



xmulderx wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
  i disagree there have been players who have played in the big leagues and had good careers even striking out a ton.  He just has to produce w/ the bat.  if he hits .260-.270 hits 15hr and steals 20+ bags + his glove he plays in the big leagues.

I don't think anyone questions his defensive ability.  Hell, if he were a .680 OPS hitter, he'd probably be passable in CF.  

That said, "striking out a ton" is relative.  If he struck out 30% of the time that'd be considered striking out a ton and he'd probably be alright.  But I don't even think 30% is a reasonably expectation.  We could be talking upwards of 40%, which would without question preclude him from being a big leaguer.
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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:11 PM

RE: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 


i get why Marlon Byrd is making the Mets as a starting OF... but this guy looks done to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he is released before April is up. He has had some hits this spring, but his bat looks slow and his defense looks slower.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:13 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



DocK16 wrote:

I don't think anyone questions his defensive ability.  Hell, if he were a .680 OPS hitter, he'd probably be passable in CF.  

That said, "striking out a ton" is relative.  If he struck out 30% of the time that'd be considered striking out a ton and he'd probably be alright.  But I don't even think 30% is a reasonably expectation.  We could be talking upwards of 40%, which would without question preclude him from being a big leaguer.
  I don't know if we can say definitively that will be the case though.  You might wind up being spot on with that... time will tell... when he gets his opportunity at some point this year he will have to make the most of it & prove the naysayers wrong.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:15 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



xmulderx wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
  i disagree there have been players who have played in the big leagues and had good careers even striking out a ton.  He just has to produce w/ the bat.  if he hits .260-.270 hits 15hr and steals 20+ bags + his glove he plays in the big leagues.
You're going to have a hard time hitting .260-.270 if you're striking out over 30% of the time.

Bourn has a K% of 18-22% in the last five seasons. Den Deker's rates? 2011 AA - 29%, 2012 AA -24%, 2012 AAA - 28%. And those rates are likely to go UP against major league pitching. The key is that it doesn't bode well. He needs better plate discipline or he's going to get schooled, regularly.

Aside: You know who survived in the majors with a 30% K rate? Adam Dunn. Of course he also had a career OBP of .381 through 2010, and a career ISO of .271.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:20 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



Absentminded wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
  i disagree there have been players who have played in the big leagues and had good careers even striking out a ton.  He just has to produce w/ the bat.  if he hits .260-.270 hits 15hr and steals 20+ bags + his glove he plays in the big leagues.
You're going to have a hard time hitting .260-.270 if you're striking out over 30% of the time.

Bourn has a K% of 18-22% in the last five seasons. Den Deker's rates? 2011 AA - 29%, 2012 AA -24%, 2012 AAA - 28%. And those rates are likely to go UP against major league pitching. The key is that it doesn't bode well. He needs better plate discipline or he's going to get schooled, regularly.

Aside: You know who survived in the majors with a 30% K rate? Adam Dunn. Of course he also had a career OBP of .381 through 2010, and a career ISO of .271.
   I understand the concerns... i just hate assuming... only time will tell. He certainly deserves an opportunity at some point.


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Posted: 3/24/2013 2:26 PM

Re: ST- DET @ NYM/Harvey... 



xmulderx wrote:
DocK16 wrote:
xmulderx wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Tell Den Dekker to choke up and slap everything into the ground, because he's a vacuum in center.
   I think some are to hung up on strikeouts... you heard Sandy say he does not care about strikeouts as long as the guy produces.  Bourne who everybody wanted to bring in struckout at a similar rate as Dekker. But, somehow Dekker is the K machine. :)

DD would set records for strike outs.  There are K machines and then there are players who simply K too much to cut it at the big league level.  DD likely falls in the latter camp.
  i disagree there have been players who have played in the big leagues and had good careers even striking out a ton.  He just has to produce w/ the bat.  if he hits .260-.270 hits 15hr and steals 20+ bags + his glove he plays in the big leagues.

The relevant comparison is K-rate in the minors.  Virtually all, high K-rate MLB hitters had much lower K-rates in the minors.  Bourne had a K-rate of 21%, Dunn a K-rate of 17.8%, Reynolds had a K-rate of 14.2%.  They had much lower k-rates in the minors.  So, his k-rate is a huge concern.

The best player who had a minor K-rate of 25% + is John Mayberry, Jr.  Thus, k-rate in the mlb is irrelevant when comparing mlb k-rate with minor league k-rate.
"Friend Romans & Country Men Lend Me an Ear"  Hannibal Lecture in Florence.  Recipe from the Grand Dictionaire de Cuisine, (1873), Alexandre Dumas.

Last edited 3/24/2013 3:04 PM by Alexandre62

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