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Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets

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Posted: 2/20/2013 10:50 AM

Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


Things I like

-- Their quartet of young righthanded arms (Matt Harvey, Zack Wheeler, Noah Syndergaard and Rafael Montero) is impressive indeed. But only Harvey will begin 2013 with the big club.

-- Their young catcher, Travis d'Arnaud, will hit, by all accounts. He's very likely the game's second best catching prospect, behind Seattle's Mike Zunino. A June callup seems probable.

-- The rotation, even without Cy Young winner R.A. Dickey, is still potentially above average, especially if Johan Santana proves healthy.

-- Manager Terry Collins, much improved in his third stint, has earned his excellent rapport with players. Though, he is likely going to need a better finish to manage into 2014. "Guys like playing for him,'' David Wright said. "Terry, I think, has done a fine job. Hopefully, we can go out there and play well for him.''

-- Ike Davis, now said to be fully recovered from Valley Fever, could become a star, and if he does, the Mets will have a very fine infield, with Wright, Ruben Tejada and Daniel Murphy manning the other spots.


Things I don't like


-- The outfield. It looks potentially unsolvable, with just about everything currently being considered, including platoons in center field and right field. Lucas Duda is the one given, and he really isn't proven.

-- There is no closer currently. Frank Francisco isn't ready, and he was inconsistent last year anyway. Unproven Bobby Parnell will fill in until Francisco can go.

-- Kids Josh Edgin and Robert Carson are the available lefties for the pen unless old Met Stalwart Pedro Feliciano can make it. Tim Byrdak should be ready in a couple months. In any case, this isn't an area of strength.

-- The depth will be up to a bunch of kids for the most part, many of them spare parts with Oakland last year (catcher Anthony Recker, infielder Brandon Hicks and outfielder Collin Cowgill, though with the outfield situation so uncertain Cowgill may start). There is no real veteran bat off the bench, and not much speed unless Jordany Valdespin makes the team.

-- The rotation, while decent on paper, depends on the health of Santana and Shaun Marcum, who both spent time on the disabled list last year.


..........fully understand the sentiment that most Met fans display toward Jon Heyman; however - it's hard to argue what he's saying here.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 2/20/2013 10:51 AM by Walnutz15

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Posted: 2/20/2013 10:59 AM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


I can't disagree either. But I get the mental picture of him having only one hand on the keyboard while he was writing the second part of that article.

Later
"You spend a good part of your life gripping the baseball, and in the end it turns out it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton

Last edited 2/20/2013 11:00 AM by NewMFS62

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Posted: 2/20/2013 11:05 AM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


He hit the nail on the head.  I think we all agree on that.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 11:19 AM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


I don't see how Terry Collins doesn't get a chance to manage next year.....unless the wheels totally fall off of this crew and they win 55-60 games.....which doesn't seem likely.   Even if they did......it would likely be due to trading the likes of Santana and Marcum mid-season and doing the best they can with AAA talent.    I don't see how that is Terry Collins' problem.   


I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad.   He has terrific outward energy.    I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 12:06 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


"I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad. He has terrific outward energy. I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015."

What are his choices? He is under contract for 2013. If he quits, he has to essentially take a year off [or take a position below manager for another club]. If he complains [publicly], he might come off as having a bad attitude which might affect his future employment.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 12:08 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


If you look at the strengths of the team, it's just simple.   The end of 2014 and 2015 is when things starts to matter around here.

By 2015, you should a very young and very inexpensive rotation which should allow you to buy the outfielder/middle of the order bat that is mandatory.

Picture that young rotation with Shin So Choo and Cargo in the lineup with Wright, D'Arnaud and Ike.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 12:12 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



erosen wrote: "I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad. He has terrific outward energy. I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015."

What are his choices? He is under contract for 2013. If he quits, he has to essentially take a year off [or take a position below manager for another club]. If he complains [publicly], he might come off as having a bad attitude which might affect his future employment.
Agreed.

While I have nothing against Terry Collins, and actually like the persona he's put out there for the public --- I haven't seen very much in the way of actual, "Wow, I like what he did there!" managerial tact, either.

Granted, the rosters he's had to work with have generally sucked -- but there's also no excuse for falling completely off the map in terms of competitive nature the past 2 seasons. 

The Mets just weren't competing in many of their 2nd half games, and that much can't really be disputed.....think they lost 9 straight at home this past summer, and that's beyond unacceptable for really any Major League squad.

I'd really have to see something, start to finish - in terms of consistency, to even consider extending him.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 2/20/2013 12:16 PM by Walnutz15

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Posted: 2/20/2013 12:21 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



oct271986 wrote: If you look at the strengths of the team, it's just simple.   The end of 2014 and 2015 is when things starts to matter around here.

By 2015, you should a very young and very inexpensive rotation which should allow you to buy the outfielder/middle of the order bat that is mandatory.

Picture that young rotation with Shin So Choo and Cargo in the lineup with Wright, D'Arnaud and Ike.
Choo is going to be 31 this season and isn't a power hitter.  Cargo is a nice player for sure but even if traded (which would undoubtedly take a great package) has very pedestrian numbers outside Coors, fwiw.

and I debate the need for a "middle of the order" bat frankly as long as Ike hits with power (18th in mlb in ISO even after poor start and 3rd in 2nd half).  The team just needs a "good OFer" in both corners... and of course additional talent in the pen.  So yeah, if you think Choo is going to age well, he might be someone to look at for RF but I don't know if I'd pay $15M per for him and he might just get that much for 4 or more yrs.  I'd rather we signed Swisher and Bourn this yr frankly even with the draft penalty.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson

Last edited 2/20/2013 12:29 PM by DuffyDyer

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Posted: 2/20/2013 1:38 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


1. I agree that middle of the order bat is not necessary, just good OFs.

2. I would have given up the draft pick, but I didn't like 4 years plus a vested 5th for Bourn.

3. Swisher has clearly declined in the OF. I could live with Cowgill/Nieuwenhuis in Right.
"Friend Romans & Country Men Lend Me an Ear"  Hannibal Lecture in Florence.  Recipe from the Grand Dictionaire de Cuisine, (1873), Alexandre Dumas.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 2:45 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


In a perfect world Duda rebounds to be an .800 bat (and a more comfortable fielder in left), Kirk/Cowbell form an effective platoon, and we end up only needing one OFer.

I'm also hoping Stacy Keibler dumps George Clooney and decides to give me a call.
__________________________________



"We've got 5 guys better than this?"
.....Jason Bay watching Matt Harvey throw in March 2012.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 2:47 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


Keibler probably has better range in the OF then Duda.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 3:22 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



oct271986 wrote: Keibler probably has better range in the OF then Duda.

........much better legs, that's for sure.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

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Posted: 2/20/2013 3:24 PM

Re: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


With those long legs, she's got better range than Duda in stilletos.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 3:50 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



Walnutz15 wrote:
erosen wrote: "I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad. He has terrific outward energy. I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015."

What are his choices? He is under contract for 2013. If he quits, he has to essentially take a year off [or take a position below manager for another club]. If he complains [publicly], he might come off as having a bad attitude which might affect his future employment.
Agreed.

While I have nothing against Terry Collins, and actually like the persona he's put out there for the public --- I haven't seen very much in the way of actual, "Wow, I like what he did there!" managerial tact, either.

Granted, the rosters he's had to work with have generally sucked -- but there's also no excuse for falling completely off the map in terms of competitive nature the past 2 seasons. 

The Mets just weren't competing in many of their 2nd half games, and that much can't really be disputed.....think they lost 9 straight at home this past summer, and that's beyond unacceptable for really any Major League squad.

I'd really have to see something, start to finish - in terms of consistency, to even consider extending him.
I'm sorry.....in baseball, you don't just coax out a playoff contender from a group of AAA OFs, a group of AAA catchers, Frank Francisco closing, and having 3 starting pitchers go down for 2 months and a couple other relievers in an already weak bullpen also go down.    I'm not trying to sell that Terry Collins has done anything that makes him indispensable.......but I think he has done enough to warrant consideration for a small contract extension.    He's not been given a full deck to play with in his entire managing experience with the Mets.   And he hasn't attempted to make any excuses for it.   The fact that he was even above 500 with this squad for an extended period last summer is borderline incredible.....with Jason Bay and Ike Davis both hitting below 200.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:03 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



JeffHostetlerFan wrote:
Walnutz15 wrote:
erosen wrote: "I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad. He has terrific outward energy. I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015."

What are his choices? He is under contract for 2013. If he quits, he has to essentially take a year off [or take a position below manager for another club]. If he complains [publicly], he might come off as having a bad attitude which might affect his future employment.
Agreed.

While I have nothing against Terry Collins, and actually like the persona he's put out there for the public --- I haven't seen very much in the way of actual, "Wow, I like what he did there!" managerial tact, either.

Granted, the rosters he's had to work with have generally sucked -- but there's also no excuse for falling completely off the map in terms of competitive nature the past 2 seasons. 

The Mets just weren't competing in many of their 2nd half games, and that much can't really be disputed.....think they lost 9 straight at home this past summer, and that's beyond unacceptable for really any Major League squad.

I'd really have to see something, start to finish - in terms of consistency, to even consider extending him.
I'm sorry.....in baseball, you don't just coax out a playoff contender from a group of AAA OFs, a group of AAA catchers, Frank Francisco closing, and having 3 starting pitchers go down for 2 months and a couple other relievers in an already weak bullpen also go down.    I'm not trying to sell that Terry Collins has done anything that makes him indispensable.......but I think he has done enough to warrant consideration for a small contract extension.    He's not been given a full deck to play with in his entire managing experience with the Mets.   And he hasn't attempted to make any excuses for it.   The fact that he was even above 500 with this squad for an extended period last summer is borderline incredible.....with Jason Bay and Ike Davis both hitting below 200.
would be interesting if there were some kind of point system that earned you something toward the playoffs for being ahead at the close of the 1st half... biggrin
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:12 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


Worked in '81... :)
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:14 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 


I for one have a positive outlook for the lefty relievers. I think (hope) Edgin and Carson show that they are ready and able to be the solution as the lefties out of the pen. If one faulters we now have some depth with the vets, Pedro, Byrdak, Laffey, and Rice. Isn't the goal to develop young bullpen arms so you don't have to allocate resources on midle relief pitchers? Then give these 2 a shot and see if they can produce. We have seen what signing veteran middle relief help has gotten us the last 6 years.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:15 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



erosen wrote: Worked in '81... :)
The Reds beg to differ.
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Posted: 2/20/2013 4:24 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



erosen wrote: Worked in '81... :)
was it that long ago??  jeez.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 2/20/2013 6:48 PM

RE: Heyman: Likes/Dislikes of 2013 Mets 



JeffHostetlerFan wrote:
Walnutz15 wrote:
erosen wrote: "I am just amazed Terry is still excited about managing this squad. He has terrific outward energy. I think it would be almost criminal if the Mets didn't seriously consider giving him an extention into 2015."

What are his choices? He is under contract for 2013. If he quits, he has to essentially take a year off [or take a position below manager for another club]. If he complains [publicly], he might come off as having a bad attitude which might affect his future employment.
Agreed.

While I have nothing against Terry Collins, and actually like the persona he's put out there for the public --- I haven't seen very much in the way of actual, "Wow, I like what he did there!" managerial tact, either.

Granted, the rosters he's had to work with have generally sucked -- but there's also no excuse for falling completely off the map in terms of competitive nature the past 2 seasons. 

The Mets just weren't competing in many of their 2nd half games, and that much can't really be disputed.....think they lost 9 straight at home this past summer, and that's beyond unacceptable for really any Major League squad.

I'd really have to see something, start to finish - in terms of consistency, to even consider extending him.
I'm sorry.....in baseball, you don't just coax out a playoff contender from a group of AAA OFs, a group of AAA catchers, Frank Francisco closing, and having 3 starting pitchers go down for 2 months and a couple other relievers in an already weak bullpen also go down.    I'm not trying to sell that Terry Collins has done anything that makes him indispensable.......but I think he has done enough to warrant consideration for a small contract extension.    He's not been given a full deck to play with in his entire managing experience with the Mets.   And he hasn't attempted to make any excuses for it.   The fact that he was even above 500 with this squad for an extended period last summer is borderline incredible.....with Jason Bay and Ike Davis both hitting below 200.
Nothing to be sorry for.  I understand how successful baseball clubs are built and operated.

Just haven't seen anything in the way of managerial decisions from Collins to put myself out there for an extension.

I think it’s a pretty valid question as to whether or not his club just shuts down at a certain point, ‘cuz it’s not even like we saw a ton of offense without pitching; or vice-versa.  That also speaks to the choices we've seen from a hitting instructor's standpoint - and the ever-present Teflon Dan Warthen.  I've wanted to see a completely different regime from the time of Randolph's firing; yet we still have some residual leftover from the Manuel years, amazingly enough.

At some point, you grind it out and win some ballgames vs. other flawed ball-clubs.  The tipping point for me was the 4 game sweep at Citi, vs. a horrible Rockie team that wasn't even traveling at full strength.

All told, 2012 was the second year in a row where things went disgustingly sour past the All Star Break…..and again, while I do like Collins as a personality (and readily admit to the fact that the Mets aren't an overly talented group) – they sure did look lifeless for long stretches.


Farrrrr too long.

Not to mention that many of the moves I saw from Collins within a game…..would be magnified by 100 times, provided the team was actually in a pennant race.

Unfortunately, not too many of us cared very much to scrutinize.

My standpoint in August was that he'd be a lame duck by the first few months of 2013, no matter how much he was liked by this group of guys……and I’ll re-iterate that I have no problem when it comes to Collins: The Person.

Just too much points to: this guy’s not going to be here when things start to matter again - my own personal perspective.


Maybe he proves otherwise this year, and some guys make strides with him at the helm -- but the 1st couple of seasons where he actually had to make some in-game moves?

Not exactly impressive, and I'm always pretty diplomatic - except when it comes to the Wilpons.

We'll see what happens in 2013.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

Last edited 2/20/2013 7:05 PM by Walnutz15

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