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Harvey won't accept mediocrity

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Posted: 2/14/2013 7:14 PM

Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


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Posted: 2/14/2013 7:27 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


He has that mentality/edge you want to see in a SP.  What a great parting gift from Omar Minaya and company...

Last edited 2/14/2013 7:27 PM by Manning4MVP18

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Posted: 2/15/2013 3:25 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Mentioned this in one of the other threads, but I'm guessing that this would be a better spot to discuss 2013 expectations for Mr. Harvey.

Huge.....check that -- absolutely gigantic expectations for Harvey from the Mets fanbase, from what I've read.  Whether that's fair or not?

Completely different conversations, but realistically - I'd imagine that most good baseball fans are more concerned with him progressing, rather than automatically ascending into

"ace" status his Sophomore season (provided he ever does in his career). 

Obviously, I liked what he showed last season - who wouldn't, with the starts he had.....but remain realistic about what he'll ultimately provide in the rotation.

Think many need to temper it down a few notches, simply because there'll be an adjustment period - not only since the hitters will have more exposure to what he's bringin'......but because he'll need to adapt, also.

That's on top of an already inflated walk rate.  He's tough - but hitters are also going to be a bit wiser when it comes to being able to wear him down some more, IMHO.

Like that he seems to be a tough cookie, in addition to swinging a better bat than some in the Mets' starting lineup the past few years.  biggrin

What do we realistically expect to see out of Harvey in 2013?

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

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Posted: 2/15/2013 3:38 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


I wouldn't be disappointed with a .500 record and an ERA of around 4.00.  He's a bulldog who will gut things out, but everyone who made it to the bigs did it by being a competitor.  Plus, he's on a learning curve like every other young player.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 4:09 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Well, Mets fans have absolutely no expectations for the team in 2013 whatsoever, so that should take a little pressure off Harvey and Wheeler.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 4:28 PM

RE: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


i don't know if it takes any pressure away from them guys, as a lot is riding on them being the real deal. I expect Harvey to have some growing pains this season. But, lets say both struggle in 2013, you are going to have a lot of fans (fair or unfair) screaming they are busts already.


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Posted: 2/15/2013 4:33 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Double digit wins, single digit losses, a sub 4.00 ERA and a BB/9 close to to or below 3.0.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 5:49 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Mike Pelfrey. With a slightly better K-rate.



No, seriously. Usually you expect a minor league K-rate to translate to something lower in the majors. Harvey did the opposite while keeping the same BB-rate. So I expect to see that revert a bit to form.

So I expect Harvey to be a better Mike Pelfrey. I expect the control to be somewhat intermittent as he continues to learn to keep his mechanics repeatable, fewer strikeouts than last year, but certainly a goodly number of them, and lots of innings, though not consistently (ie dependent on if he runs his pitches up on nights where he's striking everyone out/walking too many batters). He's got the kind of build and stamina that mean if he's got his good stuff on a given day, he can pitch all day long, no worry about him tiring in the 5th or 6th inning. But his track record suggests there'll be days where he can't locate and it'll be over by the 4th innings.

And hey who knows what he'll accomplish with a year under the expert tutelage of one Dan Warthen!


Last edited 2/15/2013 5:51 PM by Absentminded

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Posted: 2/15/2013 7:00 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Unlike Pelfrey, Harvey can actually miss bats.  I don't take him for a nibbler either; he'll attack hitters with his FB.

I'll go with 160-175 IP, 3.90 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 8.5 k/9, 3.9 bb/9.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 8:09 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


The one concern I have about Harvey is that his velocity was up considerably once he got to the majors.  Was he overthrowing his fastball to levels he can't sustain over an entire season? Or was he just that bored with AAA? He pitched well in Buffalo, but not well enough where he could afford to conserve 2-3 mph on his fastball every night.
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Posted: 2/15/2013 11:05 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 



DocK16 wrote: Unlike Pelfrey, Harvey can actually miss bats.  I don't take him for a nibbler either; he'll attack hitters with his FB.

I'll go with 160-175 IP, 3.90 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 8.5 k/9, 3.9 bb/9.
Like I said. cool


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Posted: 2/15/2013 11:17 PM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


Pelfrey would be one of the last SP you would think of when comparing Harvey's repertoire or more importantly what makes him/them successful. Harvey's top secondary pitch: SL, is as good if not better than his FB, as a SO pitch. I see ~C. Carpenter. Before you think I'm being too bullish, C. Carpenter is a career 3.76, 116+ ERA SP.

* in '13 I'm expecting a sub 4 ERA from Harvey, along w/ 180+ IP, 8+ K rate, ~3 BB/9.

"Seen It All"

loyal_Jues (IG)

Last edited 2/15/2013 11:22 PM by Gstacks177

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Posted: 2/16/2013 1:39 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 



Gstacks177 wrote: Pelfrey would be one of the last SP you would think of when comparing Harvey's repertoire or more importantly what makes him/them successful. Harvey's top secondary pitch: SL, is as good if not better than his FB, as a SO pitch. I see ~C. Carpenter. Before you think I'm being too bullish, C. Carpenter is a career 3.76, 116+ ERA SP.

* in '13 I'm expecting a sub 4 ERA from Harvey, along w/ 180+ IP, 8+ K rate, ~3 BB/9.
I'm being slightly tongue in cheek. But consider - big tall build, big fastball, success will hinge on command. The big difference is that Harvey has legit secondary pitches which translates to a higher K-rate, and fewer balls in play.

But the pitcher you just projected is 2008/2010 Pelfrey (with 3 more K/9. Yes, not a small difference, I know. Like I said, tongue in cheek). 

(I'd sign for your projection - but I expect a BB/9 closer to 4 for Harvey.)


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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:44 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 



Absentminded wrote:
Gstacks177 wrote: Pelfrey would be one of the last SP you would think of when comparing Harvey's repertoire or more importantly what makes him/them successful. Harvey's top secondary pitch: SL, is as good if not better than his FB, as a SO pitch. I see ~C. Carpenter. Before you think I'm being too bullish, C. Carpenter is a career 3.76, 116+ ERA SP.

* in '13 I'm expecting a sub 4 ERA from Harvey, along w/ 180+ IP, 8+ K rate, ~3 BB/9.
I'm being slightly tongue in cheek. But consider - big tall build, big fastball, success will hinge on command. The big difference is that Harvey has legit secondary pitches which translates to a higher K-rate, and fewer balls in play.

But the pitcher you just projected is 2008/2010 Pelfrey (with 3 more K/9. Yes, not a small difference, I know. Like I said, tongue in cheek). 

(I'd sign for your projection - but I expect a BB/9 closer to 4 for Harvey.)




And he's not a headcase........
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:13 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 




---------------------------------------------
--- DocK16 wrote:

Unlike Pelfrey, Harvey can actually miss bats.  I don't take him for a nibbler either; he'll attack hitters with his FB.

I'll go with 160-175 IP, 3.90 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 8.5 k/9, 3.9 bb/9.

---------------------------------------------

I can see peripherals in this range but i am hoping for better. Like a lot of young pitchers his success is going to be determined by how efficient he is. If he's walking close to 4 per 9 and striking out almost 1 per inning he may have trouble getting past the 5th or 6th inning a lot of nights given the obsession with pitch counts these days. He will truly become a horse when he can get his BB rate closer to 3 and use his secondaries to get early in the count grounders and fly balls. I'm optimistic- he seems like a tough, smart, coachable kid and his physical tools are obvious.

If he gets 30 starts and 180 IP that will mean he was healthy and efficient. That would be a win.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:16 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


I'm also hoping for better, but I think those are probably the most reasonable expectations.  There's nothing stopping him from going out there an absolutely killing it, I just don't think it's fair to expect him to be an ace from the start.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:17 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 


BTW, I'm absolutely salivating about the thought of him and Wheeler in the same rotation.  Odds are at least one of the two falls short of expectations, but if both are legit we're going to become relevant in a hurry.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:23 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 




---------------------------------------------
--- DocK16 wrote:

BTW, I'm absolutely salivating about the thought of him and Wheeler in the same rotation.  Odds are at least one of the two falls short of expectations, but if both are legit we're going to become relevant in a hurry.

---------------------------------------------

Totally agree. I know we won't see Wheeler out of spring training due to team control issues and I'm cool with that. That said I wonder if pitching in the majors a couple months too early would be any worse than pitching in Vegas. Can we just have him pitch in Binghamtom?
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:30 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 



MookieLJL wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- DocK16 wrote:

BTW, I'm absolutely salivating about the thought of him and Wheeler in the same rotation.  Odds are at least one of the two falls short of expectations, but if both are legit we're going to become relevant in a hurry.

---------------------------------------------

Totally agree. I know we won't see Wheeler out of spring training due to team control issues and I'm cool with that. That said I wonder if pitching in the majors a couple months too early would be any worse than pitching in Vegas. Can we just have him pitch in Binghamtom?

Vegas is death for SP, but if he can keep things in perspective the time spent there could be extremely valuable.  The difference between pitching there and the majors is he can fine-tune his command under little-to-no pressure pitching in Vegas.  That's just not possible in NY.

Lets just hope he doesn't put a ton of pressure on himself to make it to the bigs.  That, coupled with Vegas and PCL park effects, could have a negative impact on his psyche.  Hopefully the Mets have sat him down and eased his mind by giving him certain benchmarks based not so much on performance but IP criteria.  The last thing he needs to do is go out there every 6th day thinking the difference between a good and bad start is the majors or another week in pitching hell.
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:42 AM

Re: Harvey won't accept mediocrity 



MookieLJL wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- DocK16 wrote:

Unlike Pelfrey, Harvey can actually miss bats.  I don't take him for a nibbler either; he'll attack hitters with his FB.

I'll go with 160-175 IP, 3.90 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 8.5 k/9, 3.9 bb/9.

---------------------------------------------

I can see peripherals in this range but i am hoping for better. Like a lot of young pitchers his success is going to be determined by how efficient he is. If he's walking close to 4 per 9 and striking out almost 1 per inning he may have trouble getting past the 5th or 6th inning a lot of nights given the obsession with pitch counts these days. He will truly become a horse when he can get his BB rate closer to 3 and use his secondaries to get early in the count grounders and fly balls. I'm optimistic- he seems like a tough, smart, coachable kid and his physical tools are obvious.

If he gets 30 starts and 180 IP that will mean he was healthy and efficient. That would be a win.

If he puts up numbers like this, I think you give him a Niese-like extension.
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.
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