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Wheeler: Will Resume Throwing Thursday or Friday

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Posted: 12/28/2012 7:56 AM

Wheeler: Will Resume Throwing Thursday or Friday 


He's essentially a big leaguer at this point, so I'll post this here:

Wheeler. Monster upside. RT  @ chip42180  @ ProfessorParks wheeler or Harvey.



Between  # Orioles RHP Dylan Bundy and  # Mets RHP Zack Wheeler, I am taking Wheeler over the long-term as the better MLB'er. Love the stuff.


Both guys work for Baseball Prospectus. 

excited

Last edited 3/5/2013 8:31 AM by Walnutz15

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:12 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


I'm excited about Wheeler.....but am cautiously optimistic about when his Major League "breakout" will occur.

The state of our current starting rotation will afford him with ample opportunity to break camp as a mid-rotation arm, IMHO. However, the realist in me asks how long he'll be able to stick around (meaning in 2013) -- before they decide he'll need to refine some of the control issues back at Triple-A.

I'm rooting like hell for the kid, though - and hope he stays healthy for a good, long while. Hopefully, he'll be a key cog in the 2014 Met-Renaissance.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:21 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


I'm hoping he comes out and goes gangbusters on the league, but I also think there's a real chance he struggles with is command.  The best thing that can happen to him is getting off to a strong start in AAA.

I agree with Nutz in that there'll likely be some ups and downs, with Wheeler looking great at times and both wild and in over his head at other times.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:29 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


The most interesting snippet for me will be not only Wheeler's, but Harvey's actual DEVELOPMENT AS PITCHERS at the Major League level.

Both guys have nice stuff, but have Dan Warthen as their mentor.

Reading the head-to-head comparison there, with Bundy's name mentioned - I immediately think, "that kid's learning from Rick Peterson" ---- so, as much as someone might like to give an immediate nod to Wheeler in that instance.....I'm keeping a close eye on Bundy as well.

Year-after-year, I have a hard time believing in the tutelage of Warthen. I'd love nothing more than to get someone else in there to work with these youngin's.

"Use your head.....that's that lump 3 feet above your arse." - Jimmy Dugan

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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:48 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


I'm a little skeptical of Bundy's ceiling -- he should still be damn good -- upon reading the O's forced him to completely scrap his cutter, which was supposed to be his most dominant pitch.  Evidently Dan Duquette has convinced himself the cutter tears up pitching arms.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 8:59 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


I think Wheeler has a ridiculously high ceiling. You can see his absolutely electric stuff watching him pitch. The thing that makes me nervous is I think he does have a bit of "boom or bust" in him, in that he doesn't yet have the command he needs. I'm optimistic that he'll find it, but I think in the minors he's getting bailed out by bad hitters, and that won't happen as much on this level.

Eagles/Indiana/Mets/Villanova: it's a long story

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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:03 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


Even in their recent prospect ranking writeups, Parks sounded more optimistic about Wheeler than BA or Sickels. With that said, only real concern I have about Wheeler is durability.  From all the reports and videos I've seen, his curveball is scary good and he manages to keep his fastball velocity up late in games. From purely a "stuff" perspective, I'm actually more concerned about Harvey being able to maintain the 2-3 extra mph on his fastball and better command he suddenly discovered on his flight from Buffalo. Also his slider didn't seem to have the same bite after that first game in Arizona.

Last edited 12/28/2012 11:10 AM by ventura1818

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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:14 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


Wheeler and Harvey give you reason to hope and believe, without a doubt. Wheeler has upside as an ace, and Harvey has upside as a solid #2 right behind him. It makes you believe that somehow, someway, the system can produce some talent (we've said for years other than Wright Reyes how many disappointments have come up).

Let's just hope with this surplus in young pitching, which relieves massive amounts of $$ the next 3-5 years, not to mention Niese great contract, translates to investment in offense. I don't want to see Wheeler like Santana in 08 and 09, with great ERA and K's but only 14-15 wins because the run support he got was god awful.

Once this pitching is up and going, the team at that point has to be built around these youngins. Wheeler has the chance to be a dominant Tim Lincecum type arm and we have the potential to have a Lincecum/Cain type 1/2 for years. But we need to build the rest of the team around them to win. And that starts with the OF.


I will say this though... TDA acquisition is that much bigger with our young pitching if he becomes a good signal caller for them. At a weak position, I give the FO credit it is a great call for a young piece right there. But as said, once these young guys are in the bigs, the next move has to be investment, and MASSIVE investment, in the OF and in the bullpen.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:21 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 



met8669 wrote: Wheeler and Harvey give you reason to hope and believe, without a doubt. Wheeler has upside as an ace, and Harvey has upside as a solid #2 right behind him. It makes you believe that somehow, someway, the system can produce some talent (we've said for years other than Wright Reyes how many disappointments have come up).

Let's just hope with this surplus in young pitching, which relieves massive amounts of $$ the next 3-5 years, not to mention Niese great contract, translates to investment in offense. I don't want to see Wheeler like Santana in 08 and 09, with great ERA and K's but only 14-15 wins because the run support he got was god awful.

Once this pitching is up and going, the team at that point has to be built around these youngins. Wheeler has the chance to be a dominant Tim Lincecum type arm and we have the potential to have a Lincecum/Cain type 1/2 for years. But we need to build the rest of the team around them to win. And that starts with the OF.


I will say this though... TDA acquisition is that much bigger with our young pitching if he becomes a good signal caller for them. At a weak position, I give the FO credit it is a great call for a young piece right there. But as said, once these young guys are in the bigs, the next move has to be investment, and MASSIVE investment, in the OF and in the bullpen.
That's why I loved the trade so much.  I know that recently there has been a shortage of good outfielders, but over the  long haul, I think there will be even bigger shortages of good young catchers.  Every young catcher that can hit, the conversation shortly becomes "how soon do we move him to first base".
Mets trade away reigning CY Young award winner.
Still have the best pitcher in Baseball.

Last edited 12/28/2012 11:23 AM by VAMetsFan

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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:53 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 


Future HOF!
_______________________________________________________________________________

"No more questions for you bro!.....TROLL" - Russell Westbrook

"I don't want to be categorized." - Colin Kaepernick
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:55 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 



thethe wrote: Future HOF!

Mejia 2014: 11 IP, 12.27 K/9, 4.09 ERA, 3.67 xFIP, 53.6% GB
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Posted: 12/28/2012 11:57 AM

RE: Zack Wheeler 



thethe wrote: Future HOF!
I thought the Braves have that title trademarked...?

Actually, the only issue I have with Wheeler is that he's from Atlanta.  Yuck.

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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:16 PM

RE: Zack Wheeler 



PhilaMet wrote: I think Wheeler has a ridiculously high ceiling. You can see his absolutely electric stuff watching him pitch. The thing that makes me nervous is I think he does have a bit of "boom or bust" in him, in that he doesn't yet have the command he needs. I'm optimistic that he'll find it, but I think in the minors he's getting bailed out by bad hitters, and that won't happen as much on this level.
If you define bust as a non-major league pitcher, or even a Mike Pelfrey-like disappointment I disagree. If you define it as a solid #3 rather than the Justin Verlander clone we all hope he becomes, I think thats possible but unlikely. All the usual caveats about young pitchers apply, but I really think Wheeler is going to be a dominating pitcher.

A couple of things about his "control issues". Since being traded to the Mets and going back to his old delivery, his walk totals have improved significantly...not under 3.0/9IP but headed in that direction until late last season. His promotion to AAA last year coincided almost exactly with him going past his previous innings limit, so its not surprising that those two things resulted in additional walks.

Even with the walks, his WHIP was been under 1.2 at every stop since he was traded to the Mets. Taken in a vaccuum, you could make the argument that those numbers only prove that minor league hitters were bailing out a somewhat wild pitcher, but to me, thats a perfect example of where numbers cant tell the whole story of a player. Granted it was only a couple of games at the end of last year, but in those couple of games that SNY televised of Wheeler's AAA starts you saw what the numbers cant tell you- the deceptiveness of that easy delivery producing an explosive, moving fastball and wipeout slider leading to some of the most defensive swings I saw all year. They werent swinging at balls out of the strike zone, they were being dominated by superior stuff. Dont remember who the second start was against, but Syracuse had some former major leaguers
in the lineup, so these werent wallflowers either.

I'm not saying he doesnt still need to refine his command, but he doesnt have to be Cliff Lee-like to be a big time pitcher in MLB. Gio Gonzalez will never be a 2 walks per nine guy, but he's a pretty damn good pitcher because he doesnt give up hits. Even Verlander was closer to 3 per nine than 2 his first couple of years in the bigs and he was great before he got the walks down and went superhuman. I think Wheeler has the kind of stuff to dominate even if his control isnt awesome. I really see him as a #2 at worst-not right away obviously- with his upside being a top 10 SP in all of baseball by the time he's 27.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 12:53 PM

RE: Zack Wheeler 



NYMethuselah wrote:
thethe wrote: Future HOF!
I thought the Braves have that title trademarked...?

Actually, the only issue I have with Wheeler is that he's from Atlanta.  Yuck.
That just means he will be like every other player that will say they would love to play in Atlanta but never actually go there.
_______________________________________________________________________________

"No more questions for you bro!.....TROLL" - Russell Westbrook

"I don't want to be categorized." - Colin Kaepernick
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Posted: 12/28/2012 3:18 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 


Been a looooong time since we had big time pitching prospects like we have now.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:35 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 




---------------------------------------------
--- danfran wrote:

Been a looooong time since we had big time pitching prospects like we have now.

---------------------------------------------

It's been a longtime since we've had a deep farm system like this.
And you don't need to look very far to realize what a huge impact a couple of good young arms can have for a franchise.
Cain, Lincecum and Bungarner with SF.
Strasburg & Zimmerman with the Nats,
And I guess the emergence of Seaver & Koosman or Gooden & Darling also had something to do with former Met champs.

Maybe this time the Mets get lucky for a change.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 4:39 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 



DrDooby wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- danfran wrote:

Been a looooong time since we had big time pitching prospects like we have now.

---------------------------------------------

It's been a longtime since we've had a deep farm system like this.
And you don't need to look very far to realize what a huge impact a couple of good young arms can have for a franchise.
Cain, Lincecum and Bungarner with SF.
Strasburg & Zimmerman with the Nats,
And I guess the emergence of Seaver & Koosman or Gooden & Darling also had something to do with former Met champs.

Maybe this time the Mets get lucky for a change.

The best part about SF and Washington is that neither of them have powerhouse lineups.  Each team has maybe 2 two notch offensive players and virtually a bunch of solid roleplayers.  It's definitely promising to think you can have success with a team like that.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 6:42 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 



Penningtana wrote:
DrDooby wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- danfran wrote:

Been a looooong time since we had big time pitching prospects like we have now.

---------------------------------------------

It's been a longtime since we've had a deep farm system like this.
And you don't need to look very far to realize what a huge impact a couple of good young arms can have for a franchise.
Cain, Lincecum and Bungarner with SF.
Strasburg & Zimmerman with the Nats,
And I guess the emergence of Seaver & Koosman or Gooden & Darling also had something to do with former Met champs.

Maybe this time the Mets get lucky for a change.

The best part about SF and Washington is that neither of them have powerhouse lineups.  Each team has maybe 2 two notch offensive players and virtually a bunch of solid roleplayers.  It's definitely promising to think you can have success with a team like that.
Washington has Harper, Desmond (one of the best power hitting middle infielders) Zimmerman, had Laroche, Werth, Span now, and an unbelievable bullpen......

The Mets have none of that. Their lineup isn't the Yankees sure, but if the Mets want to duplicate the Nationals, a) they need to invest in offense and b) they would have to make trades that are aggressive (the Nats traded for Gio Gonzalez).

Also San Francisco in 2010 I'll give you didn't have a powerhouse. But last year if they don't trade for Hunter Pence, they don't win the series, plain and simple. Not to mention Pagan gave them the best year of his career (much like Ross and Torres in 2010). And the had Sandoval who is a better power hitter than anything we have on our roster, and.... Buster Posey for 2010 and 2012.

San Francisco and Washington lineups are not powerhouse, you are right, but the Mets are light years way from them too and would require some serious investment/moves by Sandy and the FO to get anywhere close, even if Wheeler and Harvey liveup to what we want. But this is what I've been saying all along: we have young pieces and I'm excited, but until the Mets are ready to build around them and show a willingness, we will never be good. Our payroll is below 90 million at the moment with the deferrment money, and we still haven't signed anyone (the only team in the majors not to). That is concerning to me, and tells me that ownership simply doesn't get it.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:52 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 


Given that the Mets expectations for 2013 are at best mediocrity AND the fact that Vegas is a terrible place to pitch I won't be the least bit surprised if Wheeler gets a very serious look in Spring training to join the Mets rotation right away. At the end of the day they'll send I'm to AAA for a short time so they can control him for seven rather than six years but his time in Vegas will be a formality. With his stuff and the Mets likely struggles I have no problem with ZW learning on the job in the bigs.
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:55 PM

Re: Zack Wheeler 



Penningtana wrote:
DrDooby wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- danfran wrote:

Been a looooong time since we had big time pitching prospects like we have now.

---------------------------------------------

It's been a longtime since we've had a deep farm system like this.
And you don't need to look very far to realize what a huge impact a couple of good young arms can have for a franchise.
Cain, Lincecum and Bungarner with SF.
Strasburg & Zimmerman with the Nats,
And I guess the emergence of Seaver & Koosman or Gooden & Darling also had something to do with former Met champs.

Maybe this time the Mets get lucky for a change.

The best part about SF and Washington is that neither of them have powerhouse lineups.  Each team has maybe 2 two notch offensive players and virtually a bunch of solid roleplayers.  It's definitely promising to think you can have success with a team like that.
Except that you need a Posey or a Harper. biggrin
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