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Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera

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Posted: 11/3/2012 8:12 AM

Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


Would you embrace him?

I've read at least a couple times recently that Cabrera could be a good fit for the Mets and that the Mets could show interest.  Lets say they do sign him for 1-year, $4-5M.  What would you reaction be?  Will you embrace him if he produces at a high level?
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Posted: 11/3/2012 8:29 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


No way. Picking up players on the cheap due to their lack of integrity? Not the direction the team is trying to go. How do we even know what he can do in the absence of PEDs? Chances are pretty high he's the .650/750 OPS guy from pre-2011 years--who needs that? Signing him would be a clear sign of pure desperation. I would be furious if they signed him, and it wouldn't matter what he produced afterward. There would always be suspicion he was cheating again.
_______________________________________________________________________

"The Mets have shown me more ways to lose than I even knew existed."
-Casey Stengel

Posted: 11/3/2012 8:37 AM

Re: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



DocK16 wrote: Would you embrace him?

I've read at least a couple times recently that Cabrera could be a good fit for the Mets and that the Mets could show interest.  Lets say they do sign him for 1-year, $4-5M.  What would you reaction be?  Will you embrace him if he produces at a high level?
Hmmm, yes! Under this scenario why would anyone root for him to fail?

RIP WIC 2005-2008

Last edited 11/3/2012 8:46 AM by HadronsAtHome

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Posted: 11/3/2012 8:47 AM

Re: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


I would agree with Vin's post above but after seeing a season of Bay, Duda, and Torres in our OF my answer would be yes. I don't want him long term, but as a stopgap until the salaries clear I would be Ok with him for 1 year. I don't like the PED thing, AT ALL, but he did serve his suspension so why shouldn't he be given a 2nd chance? My own belief is that guys should be banned for life on the 2nd positive, but that's another thread.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:00 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


It's not about not giving the guy a 2nd chance, although there's definitely a taint he carries that we don't need at this time--it's that he sucked before he started using PEDs and the only way he can be any good is if he uses them. He knows that better than anyone, which is why he started juicing in the first place.
_______________________________________________________________________

"The Mets have shown me more ways to lose than I even knew existed."
-Casey Stengel
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:12 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



vinluvr wrote: It's not about not giving the guy a 2nd chance, although there's definitely a taint he carries that we don't need at this time--it's that he sucked before he started using PEDs and the only way he can be any good is if he uses them. He knows that better than anyone, which is why he started juicing in the first place.
This.  It's called the Gary Matthews, Jr. postulate.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:24 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


I've always believed that steroid/HGH users continue to benefit from their use even after they stop using.  From what I've observed, the physical progress one makes using steroids doesn't just whither away when usage stops.  If Melky's improvement is attributable to improved strength and speed, I don't see why at least a good portion of that improvement can't carry over.

I could be wrong about this but I think age plays a large role in how quickly those improved skills deteriorate post-usage.  GMJ was 34/35 when he got busted.  Jason Giambi was significantly younger, and he still put up some pretty big numbers when he was presumed to be off the juice.  He just broke down at a more natural rate.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:28 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


I'm not saying that would justify signing Melky because ultimately he's a cheater who benefited from cheating.  Personally, I don't know how I'd feel about it.  I'm a firm believer in people deserving second and even third chances, but I can't really embrace signing guys under the logic I provided above, even if technically it could make sense in baseball terms.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:33 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


I would root for him, and like the move. However, that isn't happening, Alderson will wait around and pick up some scrap heap gems like Rausch to insure that we field another minor league level team.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 9:58 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


Dock I've got some knowledge on roids. 

The gains do rapidly disappear.  One of the reasons depression is such an issue amongst users is that you suddenly can't lift the numbers you used to.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 10:03 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



dondada10 wrote: Dock I've got some knowledge on roids. 

The gains do rapidly disappear.  One of the reasons depression is such an issue amongst users is that you suddenly can't lift the numbers you used to.

They do?  I'm by no means an expert on the topic, so I'll definitely take your word for it.  I have a couple of friends who took roids in HS and college for football, and while some gains disappeared, they didn't completely disappear.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 10:51 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


A one year deal with a low base that was incentive laden? I'd probably roll the dice with Melky.


17 & 14 = Best Duo In NY Sports
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Posted: 11/3/2012 11:25 AM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



vinluvr wrote: It's not about not giving the guy a 2nd chance, although there's definitely a taint he carries that we don't need at this time--it's that he sucked before he started using PEDs and the only way he can be any good is if he uses them. He knows that better than anyone, which is why he started juicing in the first place.
Well, that is definitely something to be afraid of.

Posted: 11/3/2012 11:45 AM

Re: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


Wouldn't signing Melky be a band aid to our OF problem ? If he had a good year, he would bolt to the highest bidder, so we would be back to square zero. Personally, I think the Mets will be outbid for his services next year by a more desperate team with deeper pockets.

Plus wouldn't next year be a good year to see what are "kids" (Valdespin, Nieuwenhuis, Flores, Lagares, Puello & Nimmo) bring to the table ? Then in 2014 with Bay off our books, we can take our best prospects, and add a free agent stud to make us competitive again in the NL East. With the future of the Mets being Pitching with Harver, Wheeler, Niese, etc., I think we are 1 or 2 OF prospect's and a catcher away.noidea

Go Mets...Cyborg
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Posted: 11/3/2012 12:05 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


god I really hope this is not the way this FO decides to go.
"Maybe it's time to make some moves."  - Sandy Alderson
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Posted: 11/3/2012 12:18 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



DuffyDyer wrote: god I really hope this is not the way this FO decides to go.

I agree. Some guys you avoid like the plague. Guys with PED issues, Milton Bradley/Carl Everet/FRod types.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 12:37 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



DocK16 wrote:
dondada10 wrote: Dock I've got some knowledge on roids. 

The gains do rapidly disappear.  One of the reasons depression is such an issue amongst users is that you suddenly can't lift the numbers you used to.

They do?  I'm by no means an expert on the topic, so I'll definitely take your word for it.  I have a couple of friends who took roids in HS and college for football, and while some gains disappeared, they didn't completely disappear.
Say your genetic limit on bench press is 1.8-2x of your body weight.   So a 200 lb man could, cleanly, train himself to bench ~400 pounds.  If at that point he started using testosterone and the other necessary stackers, he could get himself up to closer to 550, while ballooning up to 250 himself.  When he cycles off, he's gonna ultimately revert to his genetic limit.

Now if you're not at the peak of your conditioning before you start using, you might see something like a 200 pound man benching 250.  He cycles and gets to 250 lbs while benching 350.  When that guy cycles off, he might still be able to bench 275-300 but now he weighs 215.

So yes, some gains are kept.  But that's usually amongst those who still had room to grow naturally.

The caveat is that I'm talking about Test, which is a working man's steroid.  I really can't speak much about artificial HGH.

Last edited 11/3/2012 12:39 PM by dondada10

Posted: 11/3/2012 12:37 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 



vinluvr wrote: It's not about not giving the guy a 2nd chance, although there's definitely a taint he carries that we don't need at this time--it's that he sucked before he started using PEDs and the only way he can be any good is if he uses them. He knows that better than anyone, which is why he started juicing in the first place.
There are some who think our about-to-be Hall of Fame catcher and former 62nd round draft pick falls into that category. So be careful with those judgements...that net might be wider than you think.

Last edited 11/3/2012 12:39 PM by TNice

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Posted: 11/3/2012 1:00 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


For me it's really simple: I don't want to have to root for Melky.
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Posted: 11/3/2012 3:09 PM

RE: Lets say the Mets sign Melky Cabrera 


A-From a baseball standpoint, Melky was not a good player beforehand and if he stays off the juice, it is unlikely that he would play as well as he did the last 2 yrs.

B- There is no way to trust him.  The next strike is 100 games.

C- Do you want this around your players?  I dont want to be naive but do you want a convicted cheater around your young players?  What if Melky's takeaway from this is that he messed something up or he never would have been caught and boy oh boy, he was leading the league in hitting before they got him.  Oh, and now his supplier has this new stuff that isnt detectable.....

D-  Shouldnt you have some integrity?  I know our ownership knowingly worked one of the worst human beings of this century, but shouldnt we try to do things the right way with the right people?
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