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D4,5,6 Champions

Posted: 11/26/2012 7:56 AM

D4,5,6 Champions 


Joy Christian, Northwest Christian, Seton Catholic.

When was the last time Metro Privates swept these championships? Ever?
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Posted: 11/26/2012 12:44 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Cant think of it.  When was the last time someone dominated both white mountain schools on their way to a championship? Pretty cool stuff.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 1:50 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 



Population in School Districts for State Runner UPs that they pull their players from...

Blue Ridge- 16,494
Morenci- 3,212
Pima- 3,380

Info from---proximityone.com/sd_az.htm


Population in School Districts for State Champions that they pull their players from...


4,192,887


Info from---en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_metropolitan_area

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STUDENT POPULATION IN THE SCHOOL!!! HOW IS THIS FAIR!!!
SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE!!!

Last edited 11/26/2012 2:23 PM by azjoe

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Posted: 11/26/2012 1:57 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Enrollment is the only thing that matters. Why should a team like Valley Christian be penalized just because a lot of kids go to hamilton? Because those kids at Hamilton have the POTENTIAL to transfer? That would be rediculous. The only thing that matters is how many kids go to the school.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 2:07 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Privates should follow Phoenix Christians lead and petition up to DIV III. 3 Private champions should send a message.eek1
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Posted: 11/26/2012 2:10 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Lets put it this way and let Morenci, Thatcher, St. Johns for DV and Show Low, Blue Ridge and Snowflake for DIV and Bagdad, Pima and Joe City for DVI combine an all star team like yours and see what happens..

Combined these teams still will not have as many to pull from as you do. You Private schools need your own State Championship and then the playing field will be level for everyone. Then you can all sift through the 4,192,887 for your players together.. Oh yea you already do that.

Last edited 11/26/2012 5:10 PM by azjoe

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Posted: 11/26/2012 3:35 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


I agree with Joe, and I'm not crying over who won the titles, but there is a legitimate point to be made, that when you "attract" your student body from a huge population, you are much different than a public school who picks from what they have in their small population. Joe is correct, schools that "attract" their student body, should be separated, and have their own rules, their own titles.

All that said, I thoroughly enjoyed watching Seton play and beat BR. Not often does a team make BR look as disorganized and out of sorts as Seton did.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 6:59 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


In the last 18 years BR has been in the State Championship about 15 times (give or take a few-I lose count) and they have won many of them. Seton was runner up in the same Division in '03 and now champion - thats 2.

Things must change. This cannot stand.

Clearly, Seton should genuflect and flagellate themselves for the sin theyve committed. How dare they take what belongs to BR.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 7:22 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Here we go again...  the rural guys whining about the huge disadvantage they have over the small private schools.   There may be a very lare population difference in the Phx area over the rural community, but before you go looking at just the population number add a a few filters to that Phx population number
1. subtract out all of the people that cannot even afford to send their kids to a private school.

2.  subtract out all of the people that have no interest in their kids attending a private institution

3.  subtract out (now here's a big one) all of the people that are not christian and would no interest what so ever in their kids getting that type of education, or being in that environment.

now you've removed proably atleast 90% of the Phx area population....   so now divide that 10% by the very large number of private/charter schools that pepper the valley and you have a population number roughly the same as the rural schools do.

Rather then whine about how unfair you believe it is, why not give props to the hours and hours and hours and hours those 3 schools players/coaches put in to achieve their goal of being the best teams in the state.


and before you go throwing stones...  take a hard look at some of the very dominant rural programs and tell me there aren't any freshman variance transfers at any of those schools.  IMO a freshman variance transfer (or a variance tranfer of any kind) is not different then a student choosing a private school over the public school they are zoned for.
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Posted: 11/26/2012 8:29 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Good grief, look at the results.  Dont let the facts get in front of what you want to believe.  The privates absolutely 'Attract' a certain quality student athlete that a public, let alone a rural public school has NO CHANCE AT.  Its not rocket science that a no boundries student population has the potential to increase the Quality of it's overall student body.  Using student body numbers clearly isnt the best way to assess it's athletic fit in the current system.  It just isnt apples to apples.    

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Posted: 11/26/2012 9:59 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


That Morgan kid went from Valley Christian, a private school to Blue Ridge  a few years ago right? Works both ways. Don't say that was different. Also Keiley Reis or however his name was spelled went from Show Low to Blue Ridge back in 2002 or someyear around there. Besides, when was the last year a private school took Division Iv or 3A (before they were called Div. IV)? Also, look at how many years Joseph City, Mogollon and Pima have taken the Div. VI title.

   


"The reason I didn't like to throw on First and Ten was because I hated Second and Ten" - The legendary Ray Smith


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Posted: 11/27/2012 7:25 AM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


The private schools that are run well (not all of them); are usually full of students that are very similar in their mindset. They are more competitive, goal driven and mentally prepared. Their parents usually have had more success than failure in their lives and believe in the theory of surrounding themselves and their children with others who behave and think along the same frequency as themselves. They've chosen to pay a sum of money, whether the parents have made great sacrifices to pay that sum or whether they easily write a check for tuition, they want to ensure that their children are surrounded by these like types. Regardless of academic or athletic ability, these schools have a greater pool of potential leaders and students who more prepared to handle challenges and who already have the mindset to be taught and then do what it takes to be successful in whatever their area of study, interest or passion. When you combine that mindset with students who happen to be athletes - whether they are "studs" or not - success breeds success. This can and does happen in the public schools. Just not all of them.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 11:24 AM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Jimmer,

very valid points, that actually made the point Joe was trying to make. Ie let me select from these rural districts the top 10% of kids, and then combine them into one school. I'd play anybody in the state if I could do that.

Nobody is discounting the hours and hours of work put in by those schools and those kids, just suggesting what is clearly in plain sight, and what you made very clear. There are a select group of kids that can attend these type of private schools. don't you think that deserves a closer look, and we should not be comparing them on the basis of enrollment.

I've said it for 20 years, separate the private schools and public schools, let each have their own titles and rules.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 11:24 AM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


I would agree.  With good school administration, good academics, good coaching (not just in one sport but accross the board as an athletic department), just about any school in the state can turn itself into having successfull programs.  I would even go to say that if you looked even deeper into it the same schools that are successfull on the athletic fields are also having success in other areas as well  (band, choir, academically, social charity work, etc....)
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Posted: 11/27/2012 11:45 AM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Sprinkler

You are making a huge assumption that the 10% of the kids applying to the private schools are only the best of the best athletically (in this case).  That really isn't the case.   I was at a private institution for a number of years and more "top tier" athletes that attended K-8th grade were lost to public schools for high school then were retained.  (which happens at most of the smaller private/charter schools).   perceptions that small schools won't get you a college scholarship or even professional scout attention is generally the main reason many of these kids leave (a good deal of which is started by the larger schools trying to attract these athletes into their programs).    Now if we are talking about the Div 1 & 2 Schools in the valley, then yes I would agree they are attracting the best of the best of the 10%...  that is if they can offer them something better then one of the big public school programs is.  with open enrollement in AZ a very good athlete can pick the school he wants to goto (public or private) if their family is willing to drive them there.

there are a number of very good athletes that choose to stay a smaller private school, but the vast majority of the athetes are your average athlete.  What successfull schools/coaches (public and private) have figured out is how to mold the mindset of an average athlete into performing at a top level and competing day in and day out at that level.  players and coaches spend countless hours in and out of season preparing to be successfull, many of them accross multiple sports as well.(weight room, speed and agility training, 7 on 7, QB's and Receivers just running routes together on their own, batting practice, groundballs/flyballs, long toss, the list goes on and on).   I can remember vividly one July Thursday evening a few years back the activity that was voluntarily taking place on campus  Football, Baseball, Softball, Track/Cross Country, Volleyball, & Boys Basketball, all had voluntary summer workouts taking place.....  it's no wonder we were successfull and they continue to be successfull.  Oh and by the way, it wasn't that way because of scholarships or a rich tradition of athletic success (we hadn't been good in most sports for a long time at that point)....  It was a collective mindset that said we refuse to accept medoctrity and will work to be execllent.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 12:20 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


No Jimmer,

I'm not making that assumption that they are the "best of the best athletically". In fact, I didn't mention athletics at all--reread my posts. I'm using exactly what you said, your words---- in that the type of kid that attends a private school is about 10% of the population. They fall into the special 10% because they meet certain criteria. Others have described that criteria above, with which I tend to agree in an overall sense. It's not rocket science, these are not your normal run of the mill kid, that's why they are the 10%. I think those criteria, tend to make up a student body that is vastly different than the overall general population at a public school. That's just facts. Most states recognize this, AZ has tried to recognize this and deal it in a bunch of silly, foolish ways. I commend those private schools Like PC, that have chosen to play at a higher level even though that is not the direction I personally think should happen. I have always said to separate them and always will.

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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:04 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Sprinkler knows what he is talking about!

10% of 4,192,887 is still 419,288.
Quite a bit to pull from for DIV, DV & DVI considering what these larger school districts have to pull from..

Chandler- 212,123

Glendale- 361,673

Gilbert- 195,386

Mesa- 469,321


It's just the facts.

Info from---proximityone.com/sd_az.htm

Last edited 11/27/2012 1:17 PM by azjoe

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Posted: 11/27/2012 1:29 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Maybe we should expand the "Everybody gets a trophy" philosophy from tee ball and other pee-wee sports to high school as well so that no one feels bad becuase they didn't win the game????   Oh yeah and while we are at it turn the scoreboards off and count every game as a tie
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Posted: 11/27/2012 2:20 PM

Re: D4,5,6 Champions 


Jimmer, lets not be silly about it. Nobody suggested handing out trophy and participation medals to everybody. That's ridiculous. People are just pointing out facts, many of which came from your own comments, that suggest public school student bodies, and private school student bodies are very, very different. Things that have been recognized for a very long time, in many states. I don't see anyone attacking those kids and those schools, or not givin them credit. In fact, I think the discussion is very factual and matter of fact. I think the point being made here, is this isn't an apples to apples comparison with regard to student population. Something you emphatically made clear with your above comments, of which I wholeheartedly agree.
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Posted: 11/27/2012 3:42 PM

RE: D4,5,6 Champions 


Sprinkler and azjoe - If privates schools get "better kids" then the public schools, and by all means better then the public rural schools, shouldn't they win a championship in every sport they play? Shouldn't all the girls teams be winning every sport too? Why isn't Brophy winning the big school championships in football, basketball, and baseball EVERY year? They are obviously getting "better" kids then the public schools.
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