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AZFCA vs AIA

Posted: 12/11/2012 10:09 PM

AZFCA vs AIA 


www.azcentral.com/insiders/ric...otball-coaches/

Why is that rule article 14.7 in place?

What about army all American all star game? Under Armour all star?
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:56 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


Why does this not surprise anyone.  Once again the AIA is showing it is true colors.  Now if the association was truly looking for the best interest of the kids, why would they oppose this game.  I mean the Semper Fi All Star game played at Chase Field last year had Arizona coaches and athletes in it last year? DJ Foster (Saguaro), Javon Williams (Chandler), Josh Weeks (Show Low), Zack Hemmila (Chandler), Zach Hoffpauir (Centennial), Avery Moss (CDS), Jaxon Hood (Hamilton), and all participated in that All Star Game. It was another opportunity for those kids to showcase their talents to scouts.  Now to the topic at hand. Head coaches Steve Bellis (Hamilton), John Sanders (Saguaro) and Shaun Aguano (Chandler) participated as coaches in that same game.  Were those coaches and schools ever sanctioned?  No they WERE NOT! How about all the coaches that have participated in the Under Armor All Star game?  When were they sanctioned?  NEVER!  Now the AIA comes up with this stupid argument.  An athletic/interscholastic association is a support group for the member schools, not big brother making threats of retaliation and retribution against the members of said association.  The AIA has called district superintendents Tuesday (Dec 11th) afternoon, threatening sanctions/punishment/retaliation against any and all schools & coaches that participate in this All Star game.  Why?  Those coaches do not work for the AIA, the AIA work for the schools, students & coaches.  But Slemmer & Schmidt have forgotten that.  They see the AIA and it's member as an ATM.  But of course the AIA is going to hide behind this stupid & archaic rule.  Because when it the sh*t hits the pages of the media that will be the only leg they will have to stand on.  Business as usual for Slemmer & Schmidt.  If it doesn't make them money, they don't want anything to do with it.  That the real reason they are making the big stink.  This game was organized by the Coaches Association, not the AIA.  And knowing the tension between the 2 organization lately, I'm sure the AZFCA is not including the AIA in anything, which means there is no profitability for Slemmer & Schmidt.  So of course they want to stop coaches from participating.  They think if they stop the coaches from coaching, those kids won't play, thus killing the marketability of game.  We all know they hated the game that took after school was out for the summer because the AIA got no revenue from it. And now Slemmer & Schmidt have resorted to strong arm, intimidation and coercion tactics.  They have already set precedence by NOT enforcing their obscure rule, on multiple occasions, in the past, so how can they suddenly decide to enforce it now?  Oh wait it's typical of the Keystone Cops that are the AIA.  I mean with AIA refusing to be transparent with its financials to its members (who pay to be members), the backroom deal with MaxPreps, the AIA refusal to recognize the coaches association, the lack of transparentcy on PowerPoints and now this.  Now wonder the coaches in this state have lost faith, don't trust the AIA.  I say all the Superintendents, Principals, Athletic Directors, grow a backbone.  Support your coaches and do not crumble to the rhetoric and propaganda being spooned out by Slemmer and his minions.  The only one with power to punish a coach are the schools/school districts.  The AIA only has power that is granted to it by the members.  Don't admonish your coach for being a football coach... thats why you hired him. Take back that power by backing your coach, telling Slemmer & Schmidt to shove it, and let your coaches coach these young men in this All Star game.  Because we all know what is going to happen if the AIA's gestapo tactics prevail.  Slemmer & Co. will then reach out to other states and suddenly have an AIA Interstate All Star game.  And they'll use the media to make them out to be some hero and the coaches are nothing but heel.  After all, we all know they attempt to twist everything to deflect all the negative attention, to make it seem like everyone but the AIA is at fault.  If majority of the member schools that make up the AIA can come to a consensus, they should leave the AIA and begin a new association.  Hell you really only need the powerhouse schools.  Once that happens, the rest will follow.  The AIA is desperate and have resorted to desperate tactics, coaches & school districts should show them they mean business and won't back down.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 6:39 AM

RE: AZFCA vs AIA 


I would assume that this article was put into place because winter and spring coaches did not want their star players playing and getting hurt in a football All-Star game in December. Which I can kind of understand, if I am a basketball coach and one of my starters is a stud football player, I am going to lose him for a week towards the end of my season. Not very appealing. If you read the article on azcentral, there was a rule on All-Star games since the 70s, they just ammended it

AzFCA kind of dropped the ball here. It allowed the AIA to enforce their muscle and hide behind "your bylaws". This whole membership and doing what the schools want is becoming more and more of a joke.

The vote on May 5th 2005 was to amend the wording of a long standing rule that All-Star games are not to be played during the school year. It went from saying "AIA Inc" to membership of the AIA. Nothing really new except to show in writing that it wasn't the AIA's bylaw it was the school so when someone tried to play they could use it against them which is exactly what they did in the email to Coach Joseph.

A things that are just ridiculous:
How many COACHES were informed of this vote prior? How many local ADs presented this to ALL their coaches so they could report back to their District ADs who could go to whomever the board member was and then make the vote. For it to truely be "the schools vote" all the schools should be informed this vote is going to happen. I am not sure why the AZFCA hasn't tried to get more coaches and more local ADs on board to get it changed.

Multiple football players have played in All-Star games in January over the past few years as FF stated. Is the AIA going to come back and say that they didn't know about it? They stated the only reason they knew about this was because of a media report. Maybe they didn't read the paper that week and saw that Neal played in the game last year, Hundley the year before??

The Arizona Basketball All-Star game is played in May. However, it is played after all sports have concluded. I am sure they will use that as their basis of not stopping it.

Ridiculous as it is, the AIA has left the AZFCA with pie all over their face. Its a bylaw. You can't do it. There are many laws that cops do not usually enforce, but if you piss them off and they have a chance to they will. Think that is whats happening here.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 6:55 AM

RE: AZFCA vs AIA 


AZFCA said in their press release that none of the all-star game participants played winter sports, so there would be no interruption for other sports. Amazing the AIA didn't hear about the semper-fi bowl played right under their noses last January with AIA athletes and AIA coaches. Oh wait it seems to be selective hearing as usual for the AIA. I actually think AIA member schools fields were used as practice locations for those semper-fi teams. What I don't get is where is the money link for the AIA. Does the AZFCA just need to pay off the AIA? Did semper-fi bowl pay off the AIA? It's very sketchy to choose to enforce when it suits you, makes the AIA look very suspicious.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 7:35 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


wonder if the date is the issue?

the other games were played during winter recess... the one in Riverside is after break.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 7:48 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree with AIA that if you don't like a bylaw then go through the process to change it.  I don't believe you can compare this game to the UnderArmour Bowl, US Army or Semper Fi games as these are not organized around a specific state all star team, have sponsors who fly, house and entertain the athletes for a week and have coaches from all over the country.  This game sounds more like it is organized by the local coaches, correct me if I'm wrong.

AIA response to Coach Joseph, whom I deeply respect, was on the money if it stated his own AD and District AD voted approval of the bylaw.  If they did not get feedback from their own coaches then it's on them.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:58 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



azthreadkiller wrote: I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree with AIA that if you don't like a bylaw then go through the process to change it. 
The coaches association has tried to go through the proper steps with the AIA to get this changed for at least a couple of years now.  The AIA wont work with them or budge.

So thus you now get a power play by the AZFCA, then a return one by the AIA.

Stare down and power struggle is whats going on here.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 10:26 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


Obviously you are oblivious to the fact that no matter what the AIA claims, they refuse to listen to the coaches.  Slemmer & Schmidt run off at the mouth that they are willing to sit down with the coaches and "discuss" anything, at anytime. The reality is Slemmer and the rest of the Keystone Cops "listen to the coaches" then attempt to turn everything around, manipulate the facts and make it seem as if every issue the coaches bring up is the coaches fault/problem.  The only, and I repeat THE ONLY reason the AIA is bringing up the stupid rule, is because they are not getting a piece of the pie. If the AIA was receiving revenues from this game, there would be no problem.  But the AIA won't say it openly, and hides behind it's "rules" instead of being honest and making a firm legit argument against the game.  For Slemmer & Schmidt it is and always will be about the dollar, not what's best for the member schools and the kids.  To them its a profitable business, not a support system for the members.

If the AIA really wants to show its not about the money and they're not a bunch of goose-stepping, mental midgets... have an emergency legislative meeting an change the rule, the same way it was changed in 2005.  Yeah they changed the rule with "emergency legislation" so they can do the same to abolish it.  Beside that, the coaches are not employed by the AIA.  They receive no benefits/compensation from the AIA, they have no binding contract to the AIA.  The coaches are employees of their respective school districts, what sanctions can the AIA bring upon a coach? Threatening retaliation, retribution, punishment is ridiculous.  The only entity that can hand down sanctions are the districts. That's why the AIA had to resort to intimidation & strong arm tactics. Th AIA has no true power. By running and crying to the district administration, the AIA proved they the stereotypical 5-year old little child that runs and whines to mom & dad when another kid has a toy they want but don't have.

 The coaches should coach.  The AIA already set precedent that coaching in All Star games is not a major issue, by NEVER enforcing the rule previously.  Not even when it was happening in it backyard.  Again it all come down to the almighty dollar.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:13 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


Interesting reading the email response to Coach Joseph quoting the bylaw that has been on place the last 7 years. 

Wonder where that bylaw was in 2008 (still less than 7 years ago according to my math) when the AIA was fine with an all-star game played at Copper Canyon during the school year between an all-star team of high school kids from Mexico and a team of Arizona players.  I believe this game was played in February if my memory serves right.

Basically the AIA is fine with something as long as it fits their needs or they sign off on it.  Hypocrites.
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  • Tangled
  • Heisman
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:27 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


I think the best analogy is the "messing with sasquatch" commercials.  

Lee Brush and his crew (a handful of coaches) have been complaining and confronting the AIA on every issue, start dates, scheduling, padded spring practice, all star games, championship venues, you name it and AZFCA has fought it.  They even started a committee to look into "breaking away" from AIA.

AZFCA is like the parent that complains every week about your offense, your play calling, how you use his son, what position they should be playing, why isnt he getting scholarship offers, where you take the kids for meals after the game, how booster money is spent, etc.

It gets so tiring, they've (AIA) had enough, I suppose?
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:40 PM

RE: AZFCA vs AIA 


Cheaptrick - you are right. The AIA will call for "emergency legislation" if it benefits them. Anyone who thinks the AIA is working for the good of the schools and their athletes is a fool.
They "forced" the game to be played against the team from Mexico a few years ago, because someone in Congress from Az went to the AIA and wanted the game to happen. It's funny how easy it was to change the bylaw then, but now they're acting like it's an impossibility!
Someone mentioned the coaches have been trying to change this bylaw the past couple of years. I can tell you, it has been at least the past 5-6 years the football coaches have been asking for a change. The AIA continues to shut the coaches out on the issue. I totally agree with the coaches just bypassing the AIA and doing on their own.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:48 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



Tangled wrote: I think the best analogy is the "messing with sasquatch" commercials.  

Lee Brush and his crew (a handful of coaches) have been complaining and confronting the AIA on every issue, start dates, scheduling, padded spring practice, all star games, championship venues, you name it and AZFCA has fought it.  They even started a committee to look into "breaking away" from AIA.

AZFCA is like the parent that complains every week about your offense, your play calling, how you use his son, what position they should be playing, why isnt he getting scholarship offers, where you take the kids for meals after the game, how booster money is spent, etc.

It gets so tiring, they've (AIA) had enough, I suppose?

That's just a horrible analogy.  I think the coaches are probably more tired of the AIA making rulings like:

A) Contradictory decisions to previous rulings (like this one)
B) Making rulings that serve no logical purpose (no pads or teaching equipment during the spring)
C) Giving certain schools a competitive advantage (no real enforcement of transfer rules and the complete joke of an "honor based" self reporting system, **Cough** Chavez and Chaparral **Cough**)
D) Completely asinine geographic scheduling that matched schools with wide population differences.

Those are just off the top of my head.  I'm sure if the AIA brass was really serious about coming to a happy middle ground with the coaches they would have done so by now.  Unfortunately, it seems like too much damage has been done on both sides of the relationship for them to really work together on common sense approaches to make the game better and more competitive all-around. 

By the way, I love the "Messing with Sasquatch" commercials.  The one where they put the shaving cream on his hand and tickle his nose makes me laugh every time.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 3:45 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



Tangled wrote: I think the best analogy is the "messing with sasquatch" commercials.  

Lee Brush and his crew (a handful of coaches) have been complaining and confronting the AIA on every issue, start dates, scheduling, padded spring practice, all star games, championship venues, you name it and AZFCA has fought it.  They even started a committee to look into "breaking away" from AIA.

AZFCA is like the parent that complains every week about your offense, your play calling, how you use his son, what position they should be playing, why isnt he getting scholarship offers, where you take the kids for meals after the game, how booster money is spent, etc.

It gets so tiring, they've (AIA) had enough, I suppose?
Really? I think you have it backwards. Parents who don't know chit about coaching complaining to coaches, versus coaches who do know chit complaining to people who are out of touch!

You are clueless, you should apply at the AIA.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 4:12 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



SideShowBob15 wrote:
azthreadkiller wrote: I don't have a dog in this fight but I agree with AIA that if you don't like a bylaw then go through the process to change it. 
The coaches association has tried to go through the proper steps with the AIA to get this changed for at least a couple of years now.  The AIA wont work with them or budge.

So thus you now get a power play by the AZFCA, then a return one by the AIA.

Stare down and power struggle is whats going on here.
The proper steps are to have the legislative committee change it, the committee is comprised of AD's, Principals and Superintendents plus 8 reps from the school boards.  If the coaches brought it to the committee and lost then lobby for changes with your reps.  Such as "My AD sits on the AIA Executive Committee and won't support my proposal".  Sometimes you lose, but if all the coaches lobbied their representatives then they should support it. Coach Joseph has three reps on the committee including his own AD and the district AD plus a Tempe Union Board member.  All the Tempe coaches should go to a Board meeting and advocate for the Board to direct their reps to change it, maybe the Board will agree, maybe they won't.  That's the way it works but you have to live with the decision.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 6:35 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


This is all very simple folks.

Head down to your AD's office and ask him to set up a meeting with fellow AD's at the other schools that are planning on having kids/coaches play in this game. Once all AD's get together ask them to go as one to the AIA office and demand this game be played.

The AIA (employee) will not tell the AD's (boss) to screw off if they go in force. Problem is always getting people to do their jobs.

Bitching and whining on a message board like always will do nothing but produce the same lack of results.

Just my two cents.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 8:47 PM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


I think if it was that easy the AzFCA would have done that by now

---------------------------------------------
--- Watchutalkinboutwillis wrote:

This is all very simple folks.

Head down to your AD's office and ask him to set up a meeting with fellow AD's at the other schools that are planning on having kids/coaches play in this game. Once all AD's get together ask them to go as one to the AIA office and demand this game be played.

The AIA (employee) will not tell the AD's (boss) to screw off if they go in force. Problem is always getting people to do their jobs.

Bitching and whining on a message board like always will do nothing but produce the same lack of results.

Just my two cents.

---------------------------------------------
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  • Tangled
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:53 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



Tnasty wrote:
Tangled wrote: I think the best analogy is the "messing with sasquatch" commercials.  

Lee Brush and his crew (a handful of coaches) have been complaining and confronting the AIA on every issue, start dates, scheduling, padded spring practice, all star games, championship venues, you name it and AZFCA has fought it.  They even started a committee to look into "breaking away" from AIA.

AZFCA is like the parent that complains every week about your offense, your play calling, how you use his son, what position they should be playing, why isnt he getting scholarship offers, where you take the kids for meals after the game, how booster money is spent, etc.

It gets so tiring, they've (AIA) had enough, I suppose?

That's just a horrible analogy.  I think the coaches are probably more tired of the AIA making rulings like:

A) Contradictory decisions to previous rulings (like this one)
B) Making rulings that serve no logical purpose (no pads or teaching equipment during the spring)
C) Giving certain schools a competitive advantage (no real enforcement of transfer rules and the complete joke of an "honor based" self reporting system, **Cough** Chavez and Chaparral **Cough**)
D) Completely asinine geographic scheduling that matched schools with wide population differences.

Those are just off the top of my head.  I'm sure if the AIA brass was really serious about coming to a happy middle ground with the coaches they would have done so by now.  Unfortunately, it seems like too much damage has been done on both sides of the relationship for them to really work together on common sense approaches to make the game better and more competitive all-around. 

By the way, I love the "Messing with Sasquatch" commercials.  The one where they put the shaving cream on his hand and tickle his nose makes me laugh every time.
Letter C: (Transfer and recruiting) That would be something AZFCA should channel their efforts toward, rather than the date of one meaningless All-Star game.

Geographic Scheduling I'll agree was a debacle, but that was implemented for all sports, and football is a whole other entity in the frame of athletics.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:05 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



Watchutalkinboutwillis wrote: This is all very simple folks.

Head down to your AD's office and ask him to set up a meeting with fellow AD's at the other schools that are planning on having kids/coaches play in this game. Once all AD's get together ask them to go as one to the AIA office and demand this game be played.

The AIA (employee) will not tell the AD's (boss) to screw off if they go in force. Problem is always getting people to do their jobs.

Bitching and whining on a message board like always will do nothing but produce the same lack of results.

Just my two cents.
Very good advice.  I don't have anyone involved in this game, but this is the best thing you can do if you want to make a change.  Also district ADs are even better than school ADs to approach with the problem.  Especially large districts :)
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:16 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 



Tangled wrote:

Letter C: (Transfer and recruiting) That would be something AZFCA should channel their efforts toward, rather than the date of one meaningless All-Star game.

Geographic Scheduling I'll agree was a debacle, but that was implemented for all sports, and football is a whole other entity in the frame of athletics.

I've never understood why the AZFCA didn't take more heat in the transfer/recruiting debate-if the member coaches came to an agreement amongst themselves that they wouldn't play transfer athletes from each others schools the situation is essentially resolved.  They don't need the AIA's blessing to come to an unofficial-official stance on matters like this. 

I will say this is a fight the AZFCA probably shouldn't have picked so closely after the debacle with their all-star team selections.

"You've got to remember, that these are just simple farmers, these are people of the land, the common clay of the new west. You know . . . morons."

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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:31 AM

Re: AZFCA vs AIA 


Because they all want to win, and want that stud to walk through their door.
dangerouswoody wrote:
Tangled wrote:

Letter C: (Transfer and recruiting) That would be something AZFCA should channel their efforts toward, rather than the date of one meaningless All-Star game.

Geographic Scheduling I'll agree was a debacle, but that was implemented for all sports, and football is a whole other entity in the frame of athletics.

I've never understood why the AZFCA didn't take more heat in the transfer/recruiting debate-if the member coaches came to an agreement amongst themselves that they wouldn't play transfer athletes from each others schools the situation is essentially resolved.  They don't need the AIA's blessing to come to an unofficial-official stance on matters like this. 

I will say this is a fight the AZFCA probably shouldn't have picked so closely after the debacle with their all-star team selections.
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