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Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish)

Posted: 12/13/2012 7:31 AM

Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


On the Mountain West forum some Boise State moron was stating that BJC is waiting (and deserves) an invite to the PAC12. His argument was shoved in his face by a rebuttal that shows the total amounts of research dollars the PAC12 schools and other MWC schools have as opposed to the pathetic amount BJC has. Does anyone know what the amount of research dollars U of I has??? The following is what was shown to the BJC fool.

 

Institution Annual Research
Colorado State University $295.3 million
University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa $271.8 million
University of New Mexico $197.6 million
University of Nevada, Reno $102.1 million
University of Wyoming $74.7 million
San Diego State University $70.0 million
University of Nevada, Las Vegas $50.8 million
United States Air Force Academy $44.3 million
California State University, Fresno $39.6 million
Boise State University $11.2 million

UCLA $871,478,000
University of Washington $765,135,000
Stanford University $688,225,000
University of California, Berkeley $591,770,000
University of Arizona $545,869,000
University of Southern California $519,543,000
University of Colorado $454,000,000
Arizona State University $347,000,000
Washington State University $276,806,000
University of Utah $253,891,000
Oregon State University $188,056,000
University of Oregon $67,378,000

 

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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:45 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


From the UI Research Office website:

"Between July 1, 2010 and June 30, 2011, members of the university community received and expended nearly $100 million on research, according to the National Science Foundation."

www.uidaho.edu/research/about-research

-fido

Last edited 12/13/2012 7:47 AM by VandalFido

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Posted: 12/13/2012 7:46 AM

RE: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


School budget reports- www.uidaho.edu/budgetoffice/budgetreports
have it at just above $70M annually (looking at '11, 12, and '13).

I know that some schools (well, College of Engineering) is working on scaling their part up.

edit- the internal research page- http://www.uidaho.edu/research/about-research shows that it's about $10 over that, at least in 2011.

Knowing the breadth of research, UI would not be out of place in the P12, and it probably could scale up and be an itregal part of P12 Research programs.

Last edited 12/13/2012 7:50 AM by alfablue

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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:22 AM

Sad part is 


with changing landscape all this goes out the window. If they feel bsu helps turn on TV sets they have a shot. Education seems nothing in confrence expansion.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:34 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


I would think the Oregon amount should be $167 mil not $67mil.

Just goes to show (once again) the donks are a football team in search of a university.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 8:56 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


Where did you get the 11.2 million figure? A while back I saw figures  with Idaho nearing 100 million and BSU had grown greatly over the last decade and was up over 30 million.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:16 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


IMHO this is all about TV markets.  The PAC-12 is as follows:
2 USC, UCLA
6 Stan, Cal
12 ASU, AZ
14 UW
18 Col
22 Ore, OSU
33 Utah
75 WSU

That being said, Boise is 112 in the nation.  And what follows next is a list of schools/TV markets that fit the PAC-12 geographic profile that have bigger TV markets than bsu:

20 Sac St
28 SDSU
42 UNLV
44 NM
55 Fresno St
72 Hawaii
91 Col St
98 UTEP
108 Reno
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:32 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


If this is about covering the West, I could see the next additions being Hawaii and New Mexico.  These schools still fit the research requirements as peer institutions and add considerable TV's.  I really wouldn't understand why the PAC 12 would add a directional or "community" school into their group.  All the schools in the PAC 12 are national universities and I would think they would want to keep it that way.

Too bad our facilities don't match up with WSU.  I could argue that Idaho should be included with the addition of Nevada and New Mexico and Hawaii for the PAC 16.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:37 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


Not so fast.... TV sets and markets are certainly a big factor when conferences are looking at new conference affiliations particularly for the TV contract dollars. 
But, the PAC 12 schools are slightly different.  They use that as a factor, that is true, but they also look to distiguished Universities that have heavily invested in research.  The Pac 12 is different than than the BIG, Big 12, and SEC for this reason.

The PAC 12 presidents at Sanford, UCLA, Cal, etc.. are not going to associate themselves with a school like BSU, just because of their football team.  If that were true, they certainly had the opportunity to choose BSU over Colorado and Utah.  BSU was very hot, winning BSC bowl games, and Colorado was (and still is) in the toilet.  But, that's not what was important to them.  Colorado will rebuild it's football program in a matter of a few years, BSU will not become a research University in that amount of time.  In fact, nobody really knows what would happen if BSU lost tCP - but it will happen someday.

Edit: Plus, why on earth would the PAC 12 want to expand beyond 12 schools.  No benefit from it, and just more mouths to feed with their HUGE tv dollars.

"The problem is not the problem; the problem is your attitude about the problem."
- Captain Jack Sparrow

Last edited 12/13/2012 9:39 AM by VandyBen

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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:37 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


BSUs 2013 budget has them at $27M http://vpfa.boisestate.edu/bud...current_budget/

I do recall doing some looking into this in the past where they were $11M,  so this is very good progress on their part.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:41 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



VandyBen wrote: Not so fast.... TV sets and markets are certainly a big factor when conferences are looking at new conference affiliations particularly for the TV contract dollars. 
But, the PAC 12 schools are slightly different.  They use that as a factor, that is true, but they also look to distiguished Universities that have heavily invested in research.  The Pac 12 is different than than the BIG, Big 12, and SEC for this reason.
Assuming you mean the B1G aka Big 10, the CIC says "hi"- http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx

Big 10 research budgets are massive- Michigan's is $1.24B.  The P12 and the B1G are very much the same in this respect.  Not sure about the SEC, ACC, or the former BE.

(and I'm still of the opinion that Idaho is a pretty decent fit for the P12 in this respect- everything can be scaled up, thanks to a very broad base of research)

Last edited 12/13/2012 9:43 AM by alfablue

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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:48 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



alfablue wrote:

BSUs 2013 budget has them at $27M http://vpfa.boisestate.edu/bud...current_budget/

I do recall doing some looking into this in the past where they were $11M,  so this is very good progress on their part.

I didn't look at the report, but, I do recall Congressman Simpson stating one time that he would do all he could to improve bSu research dollars.  I do know he has been effective in providing earmark dollars and I would imagine those dollars will go away considering the current state of the fiscal cliff.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 9:49 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



alfablue wrote:
VandyBen wrote: Not so fast.... TV sets and markets are certainly a big factor when conferences are looking at new conference affiliations particularly for the TV contract dollars. 
But, the PAC 12 schools are slightly different.  They use that as a factor, that is true, but they also look to distiguished Universities that have heavily invested in research.  The Pac 12 is different than than the BIG, Big 12, and SEC for this reason.
Assuming you mean the B1G aka Big 10, the CIC says "hi"- http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx

Big 10 research budgets are massive- Michigan's is $1.24B.  The P12 and the B1G are very much the same in this respect.  Not sure about the SEC, ACC, or the former BE.

(and I'm still of the opinion that Idaho is a pretty decent fit for the P12 in this respect- everything can be scaled up, thanks to a very broad base of research)
You are correct, Michigan is a good example.  Some others in the B1G are too.  But, their wildly commissioner may get a bit wild here.  I guess they are looking at some distinguished ACC schools, so maybe he (and the presidents) are keeping their standards intact.

"The problem is not the problem; the problem is your attitude about the problem."
- Captain Jack Sparrow

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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:00 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


"(and I'm still of the opinion that Idaho is a pretty decent fit for the P12 in this respect- everything can be scaled up, thanks to a very broad base of research)"

You are right, it could easily scale up but it would require an injection of capital.   There are examples of this all over UI - when an investment is made, it pays off 3X, 4X, 10X within a year.

If you want to watch this happen, the Albertson Foundation just gave the College of Ed a couple million to build capability in the study of Tech in hybrid education.  Within a year or two, faculty will take the increased capacity provided by that money and double or triple it with external funds.  This will be easy to track over the next few years.  (I should also point out that this is a result of hiring a new Dean of Education, she has already paid for her salary many times over with this get.)

It is very easy to show that investment at UI pays off with high ROI.  Yet our legislature and Governor do not seem to actively work to provide more money and enjoy the leverage.  Seriously, if this were a private company, the CEO would be pouring money into infrastructure and everyone would be richer and richer.  These are easy sells.  UI is very much capital limited.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:08 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



VandyBen wrote:
alfablue wrote:
VandyBen wrote: Not so fast.... TV sets and markets are certainly a big factor when conferences are looking at new conference affiliations particularly for the TV contract dollars. 
But, the PAC 12 schools are slightly different.  They use that as a factor, that is true, but they also look to distiguished Universities that have heavily invested in research.  The Pac 12 is different than than the BIG, Big 12, and SEC for this reason.
Assuming you mean the B1G aka Big 10, the CIC says "hi"- http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx

Big 10 research budgets are massive- Michigan's is $1.24B.  The P12 and the B1G are very much the same in this respect.  Not sure about the SEC, ACC, or the former BE.

(and I'm still of the opinion that Idaho is a pretty decent fit for the P12 in this respect- everything can be scaled up, thanks to a very broad base of research)
You are correct, Michigan is a good example.  Some others in the B1G are too.  But, their wildly commissioner may get a bit wild here.  I guess they are looking at some distinguished ACC schools, so maybe he (and the presidents) are keeping their standards intact.

Don't mix Delaney with the CIC.  They are not related- I would not be surprised if he (as the B1G commisoner) came in with a list of possibilities, and then the CIC rated them which THEN went onto the Universites to vote on.

For the B1G and the CIC- that's the real money.  People think that the B1G gets all this money from sport- when the fact is that the research budgets are quite a bit bigger and have a MUCH bigger impact that atheltics ever dreams to be.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:09 AM

RE: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


If WSU is 75th in TV markets, doesn't that also make us 75th? If so that would put us ahead of BSU in TV market and research funding.

We should technically be qualified for Pac-16, that should make us look particularly appealing to the MWC.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:13 AM

RE: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


I think the market factors in the number of graduates.  That is a problem it will take UI years to overcome.

GreatestMascotEver wrote: If WSU is 75th in TV markets, doesn't that also make us 75th? If so that would put us ahead of BSU in TV market and research funding.

We should technically be qualified for Pac-16, that should make us look particularly appealing to the MWC.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:23 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


Purely dumb (nonstarter) speculative question...

Would combining the universities (UI/BSU) completely (academics, athletics) get us into the Pac 12?

I think no.....  noidea
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:34 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


There are 300 miles between campuses.  Not sure how you are thinking about it.  It would make us competitive in terms of total research dollars, and one football team, but there are still massive problems.  For example, BSU physical campus will keep the PAC-12 away for many years to come.  UI has a competitive physical campus but we lack a football team (although I think we are closer with our other programs) and you can't really add campuses.   I think adding graduates doesn't really change things because BSU has so few.

It would make sense that BSU and UI had mutually exclusive strengths but we know that our SBOE doesn't really think that way, so I am not sure joining forces helps that much.

jwherb wrote: Purely dumb (nonstarter) speculative question...

Would combining the universities (UI/BSU) completely (academics, athletics) get us into the Pac 12?

I think no.....  noidea
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Posted: 12/13/2012 11:41 AM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


Thanks for sharing. Good post.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:06 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


And just for fun...compare these factors while you are at it:

-Total number of degreess conferred over time.
-Total number of Doctoral programs currently offered.
-Total number of Masters programs currently offered.
-Total value of foundation endowment.
-Total number of Rhodes and Oxford Scholars over time.
-Total number of National Merit Scholars over time.

Compare UI to BSU in these areas (or many MWC schools) and we shine brightly...

-fido

Last edited 12/13/2012 12:13 PM by VandalFido

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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:06 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



TammyDog wrote: one football team, 
jwherb wrote: Purely dumb (nonstarter) speculative question...

Would combining the universities (UI/BSU) completely (academics, athletics) get us into the Pac 12?

I think no.....  noidea
If BSU was in the Pac 12...  would they have the "football team"?

They failed to win the MWC outright...  If jwherb's UI/BSU combination was reality... Idaho offers much more because BSU's football team would suffer more losses...  while UI offers the academics...

Look at Utah...  a team that dominated the MWC...  of course...  the donkey braintrust will start blurting out victories over Oregon and Oregon State...  but realistically BSU will begin to lose more games...  they should be happy TCU was no longer on their schedule...  but mediocre Michigan State and SDSU teams took them  down...

The only thing more bloated than the Vandals' perception of their academia is the Donkey's perception of that Las Vegas Bowl bound program...   a couple of field goals have defined that program.  LAS VEGAS...  BOWL...
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Last edited 12/13/2012 12:12 PM by DesVandal

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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:23 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


I believe the one reason the pac 12 would look at Boise is mostly for sos in the upcoming playoff. It has little to do with tv market or research dollars. The strength of the football team is what enticed the Big East to invite Boise to join, and it's the football team and their staying or going that holds all the cards for the Big East now.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:27 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



broncodad9 wrote: The strength of the football team is what enticed the Big East to invite Boise to join, and it's the football team and their staying or going that holds all the cards for the Big East now.
Or desperation...  

However you Bronco fans want to look at it...

Bottom line is - I knew from Louisville alumni that they were leaving the Big East a year ago...

If I knew this...  so did the Big East...  

BSU's football program was desperate...  the Big East was desperate... the 2 found each other...

Holding the cards for the Big East is like holding the cards for Albertsons (to put into words we all understand)...  who cares...  Albertsons is sinking.  And so is the Big East.

On the brightside...  BSU's other sports just may get the invite...  (LOL) <---  no seriously...  LOL...  phuk...  rolleyes
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Last edited 12/13/2012 12:30 PM by DesVandal

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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:37 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 


Logistics wasn't an issue.  I was just wondering...

TammyDog wrote: There are 300 miles between campuses.  Not sure how you are thinking about it.  It would make us competitive in terms of total research dollars, and one football team, but there are still massive problems.  For example, BSU physical campus will keep the PAC-12 away for many years to come.  UI has a competitive physical campus but we lack a football team (although I think we are closer with our other programs) and you can't really add campuses.   I think adding graduates doesn't really change things because BSU has so few.

It would make sense that BSU and UI had mutually exclusive strengths but we know that our SBOE doesn't really think that way, so I am not sure joining forces helps that much.

jwherb wrote: Purely dumb (nonstarter) speculative question...

Would combining the universities (UI/BSU) completely (academics, athletics) get us into the Pac 12?

I think no.....  noidea
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:36 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



DesVandal wrote:

Look at Utah...  a team that dominated the MWC...  of course...  the donkey braintrust will start blurting out victories over Oregon and Oregon State...  but realistically BSU will begin to lose more games...  they should be happy TCU was no longer on their schedule...  but mediocre Michigan State and SDSU teams took them  down...



This is key here.  Utah was the first BCS buster.  They were the first to do it twice. In 2008 they dominated Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, the same Alabama that was 11 points away from the national title game.  Now Utah is a bottom dweller in the PAC 12, getting the big money but not really contributing anything for it.  But at least with Utah the PAC 12 got a school relatively comparable to the rest of the PAC 12 schools (high academic reputation, law school, medical school, high research foundation) to go along with the football team, plus a historically good basketball program as well.  And a TV market that is ranked 33 in the country.

Utah is losing because they played in a weaker conference with weaker talent.  They are finding out what it takes to win week in and week out in a top tier conference.  

BSU has a football program.  Nothing else.  Ask any PAC 12 football power whether they've always been strong.  USC.  UCLA.  Oregon.  Stanford.  Nope.  Power teams go through downward cycles, and the last thing the PAC 12 wants is to have a school like Boise State contractually attached at the teat.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:38 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



DesVandal wrote:
broncodad9 wrote: The strength of the football team is what enticed the Big East to invite Boise to join, and it's the football team and their staying or going that holds all the cards for the Big East now.
Or desperation...  

However you Bronco fans want to look at it...

Bottom line is - I knew from Louisville alumni that they were leaving the Big East a year ago...

If I knew this...  so did the Big East...  

BSU's football program was desperate...  the Big East was desperate... the 2 found each other...

Holding the cards for the Big East is like holding the cards for Albertsons (to put into words we all understand)...  who cares...  Albertsons is sinking.  And so is the Big East.

On the brightside...  BSU's other sports just may get the invite...  (LOL) <---  no seriously...  LOL...  phuk...  rolleyes
I don't really see BSU football as desperate,they have options. More so than some. I see Boise State doing what it can to come out on a life raft after all the sinking, shifting and so on is done.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:57 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



broncodad9 wrote:
I don't really see BSU football as desperate,they have options. More so than some. I see Boise State doing what it can to come out on a life raft after all the sinking, shifting and so on is done.
Of course you don't.  BSU wasn't desperate to get out of a non BCS conference, leaving the MWC after one year for an invite to a shakey conference called the Big EAST...  No...  no desperation there...  

Please list their options.

1.)  Stay in the Big East
2.)  Move back to the MWC if Craig Thompson allows it after being shafted by BSU.
3.)  Go Independent.

Am I missing any?  I mean... are #2 and #3 considered options?  All I've read is the Kustra is staying put...  negating any "options."  Haven't read anything about Craig Thompson reaching out to SDSU or BSU...  

You are Big East bound and that conference is changing daily... and the TV deal won't be anything that BSU thought...

If you head back to the MWC... how much will BSU have to pay the Big West to leave in other sports?  What a nightmare...  

Options???  Really???  Maybe... but the options are U G L Y.

PS - If BSU goes Indy...  the renewel of our rivalry game should be fun...  as Kustra o-kays a home and home...  biggrin  Kustra will be BSU's undoing...

It's CRAIG THOMPSON who is holding the cards...  should be interesting...  Kustra will have to bow and kiss his arse...  which is the undoing I'm talking about....
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Last edited 12/13/2012 2:08 PM by DesVandal

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Posted: 12/13/2012 3:34 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



jwherb wrote: Logistics wasn't an issue.  I was just wondering...

TammyDog wrote: There are 300 miles between campuses.  Not sure how you are thinking about it.  It would make us competitive in terms of total research dollars, and one football team, but there are still massive problems.  For example, BSU physical campus will keep the PAC-12 away for many years to come.  UI has a competitive physical campus but we lack a football team (although I think we are closer with our other programs) and you can't really add campuses.   I think adding graduates doesn't really change things because BSU has so few.

It would make sense that BSU and UI had mutually exclusive strengths but we know that our SBOE doesn't really think that way, so I am not sure joining forces helps that much.

jwherb wrote: Purely dumb (nonstarter) speculative question...

Would combining the universities (UI/BSU) completely (academics, athletics) get us into the Pac 12?

I think no.....  noidea
You and I have had this discussion a number of times over the years.  The last time we discussed it NebVandal talked about the fallout when Nebraska moved everything to Lincoln, it wasn't pretty and there are still hard feelings.  I would expect the same things to happen here as well.  I really can't imagine that N. Idaho would be all that excited to lose the Vandals and I think eventually you would see the sucking sound of the COU suck the rest of the UofI dry.  We missed the opportunity to combine all the schools back in the 60's when the state of Idaho took over bSc.  

My opinion is that perhaps bSu should go back to it's private school roots where it could then do whatever it wants based on market needs.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:15 PM

Re: Boise State to the PAC12 (they wish) 



broncodad9 wrote:
I don't really see BSU football as desperate,they have options. More so than some. I see Boise State doing what it can to come out on a life raft after all the sinking, shifting and so on is done.
For all of those top 5 finishes and BCS bowls, you have better options than we do.  Not much better, but, every bit counts.

 

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