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All Bo Ryan Team

Posted: 7/15/2014 10:03 PM

All Bo Ryan Team 


http://msn.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/all-bo-ry an-starting-5-kirk-penney-071514

So far Kirk Penney and Devin Harris....

Last edited 7/15/2014 10:03 PM by 4badgerdenu4

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Posted: 7/16/2014 12:06 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Tucker, Butch, Kaminsky

(that's my guess, though Frank may not have put up enough numbers yet)

Last edited 7/16/2014 12:09 AM by komacki

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Posted: 7/16/2014 12:14 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Tucker
Leuer
Kaminsky

Dekker could bump Penney should he have the kind of season most of us expect this coming year.  Kaminsky vs Butch is a REAL close call but big Frank seems to have a little more skill and athleticism.  I don't think Harris, Tucker, and Leuer are up for debate although some will likely disagree.

Bench would be:

Dekker/Penney (whichever didn't make the starting 5)
Butch
Koenig
Wilkinson
Jordan Taylor
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Posted: 7/16/2014 8:08 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Koenig already?  Hopefully in a year or two but not yet.
LANI01 wrote: Tucker
Leuer
Kaminsky

Dekker could bump Penney should he have the kind of season most of us expect this coming year.  Kaminsky vs Butch is a REAL close call but big Frank seems to have a little more skill and athleticism.  I don't think Harris, Tucker, and Leuer are up for debate although some will likely disagree.

Bench would be:

Dekker/Penney (whichever didn't make the starting 5)
Butch
Koenig
Wilkinson
Jordan Taylor
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Posted: 7/16/2014 8:09 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Merill Brunson has to be on the list.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 8:48 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



4badgerdenu4 wrote: Koenig already?  Hopefully in a year or two but not yet.
LANI01 wrote: Tucker
Leuer
Kaminsky

Dekker could bump Penney should he have the kind of season most of us expect this coming year.  Kaminsky vs Butch is a REAL close call but big Frank seems to have a little more skill and athleticism.  I don't think Harris, Tucker, and Leuer are up for debate although some will likely disagree.

Bench would be:

Dekker/Penney (whichever didn't make the starting 5)
Butch
Koenig
Wilkinson
Jordan Taylor
Yeah first Bronson has to usurp "Mr. Clutch".
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:07 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Harris
Penney
Tucker
Leuer
Butch

And Frank could usurp Butch this season. Not sure if Deks could make this team with Tucker and Leuer at the forward positions. Hayes could make an argument a few years down the road if he keeps improving at the rate we're used to, but again, Alando and Leuer will be tough to oust.


EDIT:

Crazy that Jordan Taylor and Mike Wilkinson would be bench players... An argument could be made for Taylor over Penney since Kirk was technically more of a 3 than a 2. Taylor at PG and Harris at SG would be a deadly duo.

Last edited 7/16/2014 9:10 AM by CloudsOfDust

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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:20 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



4badgerdenu4 wrote: Koenig already?  Hopefully in a year or two but not yet.
LANI01 wrote: Tucker
Leuer
Kaminsky

Dekker could bump Penney should he have the kind of season most of us expect this coming year.  Kaminsky vs Butch is a REAL close call but big Frank seems to have a little more skill and athleticism.  I don't think Harris, Tucker, and Leuer are up for debate although some will likely disagree.

Bench would be:

Dekker/Penney (whichever didn't make the starting 5)
Butch
Koenig
Wilkinson
Jordan Taylor

I freely admit I'm being premature in my selection of Koenig.  I just have a strong belief that he'll end up being one of Bo's most gifted guards.  The other guards you have to consider are Flowers, Bohanan, Brust, Traevon Jackson, Hughes, and maybe Kam Taylor.  That's a great group but I'm expecting Koenig will ultimately surpass them.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 9:41 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Too early for Koenig.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 10:15 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


It wouldn't shock me if Wilkinson got in over Leuer.  Wilk had slightly better stats overall and he had both a 1st team and 2nd team all Big 10 season whereas Leuer had a 1st team and honorable mention.  I wouldn't quibble with either guy making it though.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 11:10 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



Buckynum2 wrote: It wouldn't shock me if Wilkinson got in over Leuer.  Wilk had slightly better stats overall and he had both a 1st team and 2nd team all Big 10 season whereas Leuer had a 1st team and honorable mention.  I wouldn't quibble with either guy making it though.
I'd put WIlk ahead of Leuer easily. Leuer was an outstanding offensive threat. Wilkinson was a complete player on both sides of the ball - to whatever degree he falls short of Leuer on offense, he easily surpasses on the defensive side.

I'd also put Kaminsky ahead of Butch already. Looking at the stats...it's not really that close either. Last year Frank put up better numbers than Butch in basically every category except a slight edge to Butch in rebounds. Now add to that, Butch always matched up with the weakest big on the defensive end, due respect to Butch, but he's just not really even in Kaminsky's league.

So:

Harris
Penny
Tucker
Wilkinson
Kaminsky

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.

Last edited 7/16/2014 11:12 AM by multimed

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  • panama74
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Posted: 7/16/2014 11:51 AM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


I understand that most are trying to put guys at their true positions, and you have to start Harris, but I think Taylor deserves to be in there more than Leuer, Wilk, Butch, etc.

My 5 would be:

Taylor
Harris
Penney
Tucker
Kaminsky

And I'd have no problem with Leuer/Wilk over Penney and moving Tucker to the 3.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 12:36 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



panama74 wrote: I understand that most are trying to put guys at their true positions, and you have to start Harris, but I think Taylor deserves to be in there more than Leuer, Wilk, Butch, etc.

My 5 would be:

Taylor
Harris
Penney
Tucker
Kaminsky

And I'd have no problem with Leuer/Wilk over Penney and moving Tucker to the 3.
Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute.  Kaminsky, while a wonderful Badger who finished  last season strong, has had 1 season (!) of starting/player regular minutes, and scored only fewer than HALF the points Wilkinson scored in his career, and Leuer averaged 15 and 6, and 18.5 and 8 in his last 2 years in college.  Kaminsky MAY have a similar year this year, but he is not even close to as good, right now, as either of those players were when comparing careers.

Penney
Harris
Tucker
Wilkinson
Leuer

That's a team I could see, with the potential for Taylor to sneak in there over Wilkinson.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:21 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



BadgerNCarolina wrote:
Kaminsky MAY have a similar year this year, but he is not even close to as good, right now, as either of those players were when comparing careers.
That was my problem when I predicted my three.  Tucker was obvious, but without knowing the criteria they used it's hard to guess the final two.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:37 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



komacki wrote:
BadgerNCarolina wrote:
Kaminsky MAY have a similar year this year, but he is not even close to as good, right now, as either of those players were when comparing careers.
That was my problem when I predicted my three.  Tucker was obvious, but without knowing the criteria they used it's hard to guess the final two.
Yeah - good point, that last part is my assumption...
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Posted: 7/16/2014 1:55 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



BadgerNCarolina wrote:
panama74 wrote: I understand that most are trying to put guys at their true positions, and you have to start Harris, but I think Taylor deserves to be in there more than Leuer, Wilk, Butch, etc.

My 5 would be:

Taylor
Harris
Penney
Tucker
Kaminsky

And I'd have no problem with Leuer/Wilk over Penney and moving Tucker to the 3.
Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute.  Kaminsky, while a wonderful Badger who finished  last season strong, has had 1 season (!) of starting/player regular minutes, and scored only fewer than HALF the points Wilkinson scored in his career, and Leuer averaged 15 and 6, and 18.5 and 8 in his last 2 years in college.  Kaminsky MAY have a similar year this year, but he is not even close to as good, right now, as either of those players were when comparing careers.

Penney
Harris
Tucker
Wilkinson
Leuer

That's a team I could see, with the potential for Taylor to sneak in there over Wilkinson.
I think Frank is due for a monster season, and Dekker too. Besides I don't think it is possible to ignore the drive to the Final Four. Therefore, I go with 
Kaminsky
Wilkinson
Dekker
Penney
Harris

I think Frank has an advantage over Mike as a true 5. 
I would put Tucker over Dekker, but I think Dekker's outside shooting is better (despite last year).
Hard to beat Penny and Harris as guards. My second guard tandem is J. Taylor and Flowers.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 2:12 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



jerdud59 wrote:
BadgerNCarolina wrote:
panama74 wrote: I understand that most are trying to put guys at their true positions, and you have to start Harris, but I think Taylor deserves to be in there more than Leuer, Wilk, Butch, etc.

My 5 would be:

Taylor
Harris
Penney
Tucker
Kaminsky

And I'd have no problem with Leuer/Wilk over Penney and moving Tucker to the 3.
Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute.  Kaminsky, while a wonderful Badger who finished  last season strong, has had 1 season (!) of starting/player regular minutes, and scored only fewer than HALF the points Wilkinson scored in his career, and Leuer averaged 15 and 6, and 18.5 and 8 in his last 2 years in college.  Kaminsky MAY have a similar year this year, but he is not even close to as good, right now, as either of those players were when comparing careers.

Penney
Harris
Tucker
Wilkinson
Leuer

That's a team I could see, with the potential for Taylor to sneak in there over Wilkinson.
I think Frank is due for a monster season, and Dekker too. Besides I don't think it is possible to ignore the drive to the Final Four. Therefore, I go with 
Kaminsky
Wilkinson
Dekker
Penney
Harris

I think Frank has an advantage over Mike as a true 5. 
I would put Tucker over Dekker, but I think Dekker's outside shooting is better (despite last year).
Hard to beat Penny and Harris as guards. My second guard tandem is J. Taylor and Flowers.
No reasonable list of top 5 Bo Ryan players would exclude Tucker - sorry!
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  • panama74
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Posted: 7/16/2014 2:40 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



BadgerNCarolina wrote: Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute. 

I just went by which players were the best at their peak, instead of doing the career achievement/"hall of fame" sort of thing.  Not saying either is right or wrong, I just think it's more fun to imagine the best possible team you could make.

And Dekker over Tucker... come on.  There's no criteria that justifies that.  Harris and Tucker are the gimmes.  The other three spots can be debated.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 5:37 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


the criteria that justified Dekker over Tuck was that Dekker's team got to the final four against outstanding competition and Dekker played better the tougher the game. Also I tried to pick a team, rather than five best players.

By the numbers Tucker's best year was 2003; he did almost as well in 2007. I forgot that the 2007 team was the one where Butch broke his elbow at OSU in the week that Wis was rated #1. That will always be a final four team in my mind. 

Tucker 2003 and 2007 edges Dekker 2014; but it appears that Dekker is going to write a new line in 2015. I am comfortable demoting Dekker to the bench until April of 2015. In my mind, Tucker gave all he had every game, sometimes against 2-3 people, while giving up a few inches, but he gave up nothing in the intangible department.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:34 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



panama74 wrote:
BadgerNCarolina wrote: Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute. 

I just went by which players were the best at their peak, instead of doing the career achievement/"hall of fame" sort of thing.  Not saying either is right or wrong, I just think it's more fun to imagine the best possible team you could make.

And Dekker over Tucker... come on.  There's no criteria that justifies that.  Harris and Tucker are the gimmes.  The other three spots can be debated.
I get it - criteria weren't set so we made our own.  However, leaving Tucker off is just silly.
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:43 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



BadgerNCarolina wrote:
panama74 wrote:
BadgerNCarolina wrote: Maybe we all need to step away from the Final 4 Kool-Aid for a minute. 

I just went by which players were the best at their peak, instead of doing the career achievement/"hall of fame" sort of thing.  Not saying either is right or wrong, I just think it's more fun to imagine the best possible team you could make.

And Dekker over Tucker... come on.  There's no criteria that justifies that.  Harris and Tucker are the gimmes.  The other three spots can be debated.
I get it - criteria weren't set so we made our own.  However, leaving Tucker off is just silly.
+1 - my team, in order:

1. Devin



2. Alando
3. Jordan Taylor


4. Penney


5. Wilk edging out Butch and Leuer
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Posted: 7/16/2014 7:48 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Tucker was the NPOY runner-up to Durant.  He's one of the two best players Bo has had.  He's on the list.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 1:35 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Next player announced:  Leuer it is

They gave Wilkinson the nod as Leuer's back up - which I assume means he's not the last starter.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 2:13 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


I know Michael Flowers will not make the top group but I really want him on my team.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 3:04 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


Landry as the backup 3 and Sam as a 4?  Sure, why not.

It comes down to Butch and Kaminsky for the 5 spot.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 3:24 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



komacki wrote: Landry as the backup 3 and Sam as a 4?  Sure, why not.

It comes down to Butch and Kaminsky for the 5 spot.
Just can't fathom any way you could have Butch ahead of Wilkinson. And it's not like it's just position either - because Wilk defended the 5 more than Butch ever did (unless the opponent's center was zero scoring threat). I don't think there's a single stat where Butch was better - and defensively it wasn't even that close. And it's not about ripping Butch - he had a fine career. But Wilkinson was a much better player.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/17/2014 4:24 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



multimed wrote:
komacki wrote: Landry as the backup 3 and Sam as a 4?  Sure, why not.

It comes down to Butch and Kaminsky for the 5 spot.
Just can't fathom any way you could have Butch ahead of Wilkinson. And it's not like it's just position either - because Wilk defended the 5 more than Butch ever did (unless the opponent's center was zero scoring threat). I don't think there's a single stat where Butch was better - and defensively it wasn't even that close. And it's not about ripping Butch - he had a fine career. But Wilkinson was a much better player.
By "can't fathom any way you could have Butch ahead," are you directing that at me specifically, or at the authors of the piece?  If you meant me then you answered it yourself - they have Wilkinson as a sub at the 4, so he won't be the starter at the 5.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 1:37 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



komacki wrote: 
By "can't fathom any way you could have Butch ahead," are you directing that at me specifically, or at the authors of the piece?  If you meant me then you answered it yourself - they have Wilkinson as a sub at the 4, so he won't be the starter at the 5.
No - wasn't directed at you. Though I was spurred to the the conclusion based on what you said. 

They just published #5 & it's Kaminsky. So it comes back to the criteria. If you're going by peak and/or factoring in next year for Frank, perfectly reasonable. Obviously that's the perspective they take. 

Also reasonable to make it about a career - in which case, you'd have to wait a year on Kaminsky. 

I don't have a problem with both Wilkinson and Butch as backups (though personally I'd put Mike ahead of Leuer). I just would've thought it would be way off the mark to have Butch as a starter & Wilk as a backup - I don't see any criteria that would support that.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 1:44 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 


I, too, would put Wilk and his overall game ahead of Leuer and his, mm. As for Butch over Wilk, Wilk was never a center although he was forced to guard the opponent's best big man, Butch was. So I, too, agree with you there.
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Posted: 7/18/2014 2:21 PM

Re: All Bo Ryan Team 



multimed wrote:
komacki wrote: Landry as the backup 3 and Sam as a 4?  Sure, why not.

It comes down to Butch and Kaminsky for the 5 spot.
Just can't fathom any way you could have Butch ahead of Wilkinson. And it's not like it's just position either - because Wilk defended the 5 more than Butch ever did (unless the opponent's center was zero scoring threat). I don't think there's a single stat where Butch was better - and defensively it wasn't even that close. And it's not about ripping Butch - he had a fine career. But Wilkinson was a much better player.
This - Wilk was WAY undervalued here. You have to look at his whole game - his D and footwork were textbook. No offense to Butch fans but as you said Wilk was a far better player.
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