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ESPN position battle for 2014-2015

Posted: 6/11/2014 3:34 PM

ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
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Posted: 6/11/2014 3:40 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



FIBinMO wrote: Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
I'm curious where that guy got the impression Koenig could get to the rim better than Jackson. I certainly didn't see that very often last season. He might be able to but he hasn't shown a better ability to. YET.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 4:30 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



UnknownBadger wrote:
FIBinMO wrote: Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
I'm curious where that guy got the impression Koenig could get to the rim better than Jackson. I certainly didn't see that very often last season. He might be able to but he hasn't shown a better ability to. YET.

Are you being sarcastic?  Even in Koenig's limited playing time you could see he has a much greater ability to break down a defender than Jackson.  His crossover is a thing of beauty.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 4:47 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



thesup wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
FIBinMO wrote: Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
I'm curious where that guy got the impression Koenig could get to the rim better than Jackson. I certainly didn't see that very often last season. He might be able to but he hasn't shown a better ability to. YET.

Are you being sarcastic?  Even in Koenig's limited playing time you could see he has a much greater ability to break down a defender than Jackson.  His crossover is a thing of beauty.
I agree Koenig has a very deceptive crossover and beautiful pull up mid range shot but do you really think he drove to the rim and got shots at anywhere near the frequency of Jackson?
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Posted: 6/11/2014 4:55 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


I suppose you could say Kaminsky, Dekker, and Gasser are sure starters, and the other two spots will be between Jackson, Hayes, and Koenig, but when has Ryan ever not started a returning two-year starter?  Chances are Koenig is the odd man out, but his minutes could be very close to those of Jackson and Hayes, and we could alternate between two and three-guard lineups to some extent, with Koenig often being the first player off the bench regardless of who comes out.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 5:21 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



dcamp wrote: Chances are Koenig is the odd man out, but his minutes could be very close to those of Jackson and Hayes, and we could alternate between two and three-guard lineups to some extent, with Koenig often being the first player off the bench regardless of who comes out.
This pretty much sums it up. There is no real position battle between Jackson and Koenig; both guys are going to play tons of minutes throughout the season.
Sure...I'll take a look.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 6:05 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



dcamp wrote: I suppose you could say Kaminsky, Dekker, and Gasser are sure starters, and the other two spots will be between Jackson, Hayes, and Koenig, but when has Ryan ever not started a returning two-year starter?  Chances are Koenig is the odd man out, but his minutes could be very close to those of Jackson and Hayes, and we could alternate between two and three-guard lineups to some extent, with Koenig often being the first player off the bench regardless of who comes out.
Exactly why all the debate about whether or not Bo goes small or big in his starting lineup doesn't matter. If he starts Nigel/Sam/Frank and Nigel picks up two quick fouls, there's no reason he can't bring Koenig in and roll out BK/Trae/Gasser/Sam/Frank. There's no rule about having to sub in a big for a big or a small for a small.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 6:50 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


It isn't about who starts, but who finishes.

Or so said some old basketball coach...many times.biggrin
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Posted: 6/11/2014 7:14 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



Madtowntom wrote:
thesup wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
FIBinMO wrote: Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
I'm curious where that guy got the impression Koenig could get to the rim better than Jackson. I certainly didn't see that very often last season. He might be able to but he hasn't shown a better ability to. YET.

Are you being sarcastic?  Even in Koenig's limited playing time you could see he has a much greater ability to break down a defender than Jackson.  His crossover is a thing of beauty.
I agree Koenig has a very deceptive crossover and beautiful pull up mid range shot but do you really think he drove to the rim and got shots at anywhere near the frequency of Jackson?
I agree exactly. Koenig may have been a bit hesitant to drive to the basket his true freshman year but the simple fact is he rarely did. I would guess he will do more of it this season. However, Brown (the writer) is being extremely speculative because he certainly hasn't seen it with any frequency from Koenig. Jackson, we have.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 7:48 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Saw Bronson break down some guys and get into the lane.  Only recall a couple of layups and zero dunks though.  Seemed he'd break down an opponent, get into the middle and not just dish but look first to dish.  Too deferential

Koenig becomes deadly the day he makes an enduring commitment to reaching the rim.  Everything else about his game will fall right into step from that- free throws, assists and open jump shots off the dribble.  The athleticism, shooting and ball-handling are there now.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 8:00 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Yeah. That's what they always say to the bench guys. ;)


---------------------------------------------
--- badgerpaw wrote:

It isn't about who starts, but who finishes.

Or so said some old basketball coach...many times.biggrin

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 6/11/2014 10:26 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


This "battle" is laughable. Anyone who has watched the program for a while knows that barring injury TJ, Gasser, Dekk, Hayes, and Frank are the starters. BK and Duje give you a 1/2 and 3/4 off the bench respectively......Showy/Hill and Vitto/Happ turn into luxuries as reserves at those spots.

Said another way, Espn can speculate...........meanwhile Bo and company are DROOLING with the flexibility of next years lineup. And BK will thrive from the 6 spot!!!!!!
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Posted: 6/12/2014 10:13 AM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



Bendbadgersteve wrote: Saw Bronson break down some guys and get into the lane.  Only recall a couple of layups and zero dunks though.  Seemed he'd break down an opponent, get into the middle and not just dish but look first to dish.  Too deferential

Koenig becomes deadly the day he makes an enduring commitment to reaching the rim.  Everything else about his game will fall right into step from that- free throws, assists and open jump shots off the dribble.  The athleticism, shooting and ball-handling are there now.
This is typical of the way that Bo develops players. Freshmen are asked to do less than they are accustomed and able, learn to do things Bo's way minimizing turnovers, then are allowed and encouraged to become higher usage players in succeeding years. It also takes teammates a fair amount of time to get used to playing with a guy who can pass into such tight spaces as Bronson can do, so that is going to make his passing more valuable this year.

So for those reasons I do believe that you will see BK use a lot more possessions this year. He does a lot of things well--I would rank his arsenal in this order:
1) pick-and-roll
2) cross-over to set up the mid-range pull up
3) three point shot
4) drive all the way to the rim

He is just so good with his top 3 options that he is able to find open shots before he gets to the rim. Last year, he didn't use enough possessions to make defenses adjust to his game. As he becomes higher usage, I'd expect defenses to start to try to take away the things that he does most often, and that will open up more opportunities to get all the way to the rim, so I think we'll see more of that this year.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 12:02 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


I can't remember seeing this much experienced depth on a Bo Ryan Badger team.  It will be interesting to see how Bo handles the minutes.  I think TJ starting is a given.  I would not be shocked to see Duje start next year.

Bo certainly isn't afraid to play his starters heavy minutes if they can stay out of foul trouble.  Last year, Brust (34.8) and Gasser (33.1) ranked near the top of the B1G in minutes per game.  What we have not seen from Bo in the past is more than 7-8 players getting regular minutes.  So, throw Vitto, Show, Hill, or Happ into the mix and we are already at 8.  Doesn't leave much room for anyone else unless Bo goes deeper into the bench.

So many questions going into last season, and so few going into this season.  Is it October yet?

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Posted: 6/12/2014 12:04 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



thesup wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
FIBinMO wrote: Interesting about Jackson vs Koenig

espn.go.com/blog/collegebasket...osition-battles
I'm curious where that guy got the impression Koenig could get to the rim better than Jackson. I certainly didn't see that very often last season. He might be able to but he hasn't shown a better ability to. YET.

Are you being sarcastic?  Even in Koenig's limited playing time you could see he has a much greater ability to break down a defender than Jackson.  His crossover is a thing of beauty.
Unfortunately he's not, he's really that dense. Another important point I haven't seen mentioned is the VAST difference in passing ability. Bronson has in Bo's own words "the best vision he's seen" and will dish off a drive. Once TJ puts his head down, it's hero time - no matter how open anyone else is.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 12:51 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


UW lost Brust last year who played a lot of minutes.  Both Jackson and Koenig will get a lot of minutes.  Bronson will see increased minutes from last year and Jackson's minutes will likely stay about the same.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 12:59 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



FireMarshalBill wrote:

I can't remember seeing this much experienced depth on a Bo Ryan Badger team.  It will be interesting to see how Bo handles the minutes.  I think TJ starting is a given.  I would not be shocked to see Duje start next year.

Bo certainly isn't afraid to play his starters heavy minutes if they can stay out of foul trouble.  Last year, Brust (34.8) and Gasser (33.1) ranked near the top of the B1G in minutes per game.  What we have not seen from Bo in the past is more than 7-8 players getting regular minutes.  So, throw Vitto, Show, Hill, or Happ into the mix and we are already at 8.  Doesn't leave much room for anyone else unless Bo goes deeper into the bench.

So many questions going into last season, and so few going into this season.  Is it October yet?

Actually, we have seen it. It's just been some time since.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 1:41 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Just re watched the KY game, BK got to the rim twice against them. Given the opportunity, we probably would have seen more...opportunity being the key word as he didn't get much last year unfortunately..

That game was a snippet of what he can do all around, got to the rim, nice passing, and hit from the outside....against great competition and athleticism. Too bad he will have to share time again this year, definite waste of talent.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 1:49 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



terror5 wrote: Just re watched the KY game, BK got to the rim twice against them. Given the opportunity, we probably would have seen more...opportunity being the key word as he didn't get much last year unfortunately..

That game was a snippet of what he can do all around, got to the rim, nice passing, and hit from the outside....against great competition and athleticism. Too bad he will have to share time again this year, definite waste of talent.
+1 - he will be 1st team all B1G as a junior (along with Burgundy) and the 2 will battle for BTPOTY the following year. Can you imagine how BK is abusing TJ in summer games?
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Posted: 6/12/2014 1:51 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



Bronson shot .328 from three. And was 1-4 from three against KY. Let's not let reality get in the way of your fantasy.

---------------------------------------------
--- terror5 wrote:

Just re watched the KY game, BK got to the rim twice against them. Given the opportunity, we probably would have seen more...opportunity being the key word as he didn't get much last year unfortunately..

That game was a snippet of what he can do all around, got to the rim, nice passing, and hit from the outside....against great competition and athleticism. Too bad he will have to share time again this year, definite waste of talent.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 6/12/2014 1:54 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



stlbadger wrote:
 Can you imagine how BK is abusing TJ in summer games?
No, because thankfully my brain isn't infected by the delusions that run yours.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 3:05 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Koenig had plenty of chances to get to the rim last year if he wanted to.  I didn't see much in the way of consistently taking it to the hoop off of the bounce.  He has a great cross-over pull up jumper but I rarely saw him take it all the way to the rim.  There's about 3 players that I for sure would want driving to the rim before Bronson (Kaminsky, Hayes and Jackson).  

Not saying Bronson can't do it or won't do it next year but he certainly didn't do it much last year.  Hayes consistently drove to rim last season.  He was a freshman as well and wasn't starting, nothing stopped Hayes from driving consistently, in fact there was a stretch there where Hayes was our best offensive player and most of that offense came from him driving the hoop.  Nothing prevented Koenig from doing it either, he just didn't.


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Posted: 6/12/2014 4:54 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Bk gets 6th man of the year, next year?
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Posted: 6/12/2014 5:01 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 





---------------------------------------------
--- Tvtime wrote:

Bk gets 6th man of the year, next year?

---------------------------------------------

I don't think it matters as I see next years team having basically 6 starters. I think Gasser will average the most minutes on the team because of his versatility defensively but one could easily see Koenig averaging 22-30 mpg and basically the same minutes as most of the starters.

Or

Koenig could start with Jackson and Gasser and the same would be true for Nigel Hayes.

The most pressing need is for one of these below players to step up and show they're capable:

Brown
Hill
Dearring

My guess is Brown starts to get some really healthy minutes.
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Posted: 6/12/2014 5:10 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



komacki wrote:
stlbadger wrote:
 Can you imagine how BK is abusing TJ in summer games?
No, because thankfully my brain isn't infected by the delusions that run yours.
Can you imagine how Jackson is abusing Koenig? wink
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Posted: 6/12/2014 11:28 PM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



FireMarshalBill wrote:

I can't remember seeing this much experienced depth on a Bo Ryan Badger team.  It will be interesting to see how Bo handles the minutes.  I think TJ starting is a given.  I would not be shocked to see Duje start next year.

Bo certainly isn't afraid to play his starters heavy minutes if they can stay out of foul trouble.  Last year, Brust (34.8) and Gasser (33.1) ranked near the top of the B1G in minutes per game.  What we have not seen from Bo in the past is more than 7-8 players getting regular minutes.  So, throw Vitto, Show, Hill, or Happ into the mix and we are already at 8.  Doesn't leave much room for anyone else unless Bo goes deeper into the bench.

So many questions going into last season, and so few going into this season.  Is it October yet?

Unless there are a couple injuries, 0% chance Duje starts.
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Posted: 6/13/2014 12:15 AM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 


Jackson is a very tough player and very very clutch. He likes the ball in his hands and isn't afraid of taking the last shot. I am surprised how far he has come since his freshman year. Having said that Koenig has a way higher ceiling as a player. He is more athletic, a better ball handler, better shooter, and more versatile. 

I don't know who will start for you guys but I am sure Bronson will force his way onto the floor alot more this year. That will be at the expense of someones minutes maybe solely Brust's. I don't know. I do know that Bronson is a very good player though and will give the BIG 10 fits while he is on campus. Love his game.
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Posted: 6/13/2014 5:58 AM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



UnknownBadger wrote:
komacki wrote:
stlbadger wrote:
 Can you imagine how BK is abusing TJ in summer games?
No, because thankfully my brain isn't infected by the delusions that run yours.
Can you imagine how Jackson is abusing Koenig? wink
No, because I think they would be pretty even.  But can you imagine how bad Gesell would abuse either of them?  Heck I think he would wipe the floor with both of them at the same time if they played 2-on-1.
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Posted: 6/13/2014 6:44 AM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



DWILL05 wrote: Jackson is a very tough player and very very clutch. He likes the ball in his hands and isn't afraid of taking the last shot. I am surprised how far he has come since his freshman year. Having said that Koenig has a way higher ceiling as a player. He is more athletic, a better ball handler, better shooter, and more versatile. 

I don't know who will start for you guys but I am sure Bronson will force his way onto the floor alot more this year. That will be at the expense of someones minutes maybe solely Brust's. I don't know. I do know that Bronson is a very good player though and will give the BIG 10 fits while he is on campus. Love his game.
+1 - anyone with a BB IQ above plant level can see how much better Koenig is in EVERY aspect of the game. I hope he doesn't regret his limited time here now as he may be the most talented PG in the B1G today - TJ is probably in the lower half of B1G PG's.
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Posted: 6/13/2014 8:21 AM

Re: ESPN position battle for 2014-2015 



stlbadger wrote:
DWILL05 wrote: Jackson is a very tough player and very very clutch. He likes the ball in his hands and isn't afraid of taking the last shot. I am surprised how far he has come since his freshman year. Having said that Koenig has a way higher ceiling as a player. He is more athletic, a better ball handler, better shooter, and more versatile. 

I don't know who will start for you guys but I am sure Bronson will force his way onto the floor alot more this year. That will be at the expense of someones minutes maybe solely Brust's. I don't know. I do know that Bronson is a very good player though and will give the BIG 10 fits while he is on campus. Love his game.
+1 - anyone with a BB IQ above plant level can see how much better Koenig is in EVERY aspect of the game. I hope he doesn't regret his limited time here now as he may be the most talented PG in the B1G today - TJ is probably in the lower half of B1G PG's.
That kind'a leaves you out, stl.
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