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Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN

Posted: 6/3/2014 5:14 PM

Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


I didn't know if this was posted anywhere but in an updated ESPN ranking of the 2015 class Diamond Stone comes in at #4 (no surprise) and Henry Ellenson at #5. Pretty cool to see Wisconsin have two guys in the top 5 in the whole country. Both are now 5 star recruits. Also Nick Noskowiak came in at #50.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 5:42 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Ellenson's meteoric rise is not good news for UW or MU.  He was already on most of the blue bloods' radar screens, but he will now very likely move up to Plan A for some of those programs rather than Plan B.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 6:04 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Ellenson's meteoric rise is great news for UW, MU and Wisconsin high school basketball and recruiting. Your BS is not worth quoting, but the good news for idiots like yourself is that medication is now available free.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 7:35 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Ellenson's rise is most certainly not great news for UW. I think Silver hit the nail on the head. Ellenson just went from Plan B to Plan A for the Blue Bloods. But apparently you think that improves UW's  chances of landing him. Please explain your logic, at least, before calling someone an idiot.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 7:57 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


I'm almost certain that the blue bloods are going off their evaluations, and not the espn ranking of a player. They want the best basketball players they can get, and they really don't give a **** what they are rated on espn.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 8:23 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


I've thought for some time that Stone is a better pro prospect but Ellenson is a better prospect at the college level.  I'd love to have either (or both) but Ellenson would be my choice if I had to choose between them for the Badgers.  I'm not convinced Ellenson is Plan A for the blue bloods.  He's more of a below the rim player with a great deal of skill and touch for a big.  I think most blue bloods will target the more athletic big and rely on skill at the wing/perimeter positions.  They are not going to want Henry getting the ball on the perimeter and creating.  The Badgers would seem to have a significant advantage in that regard but you can never tell with 18 year old kids. 

Regardless, I think the Badgers are loaded for the future.  Ethan Happ is a REAL find.  His development since committing to the Badgers is eye opening.  He's stronger than Ellenson inside and more skilled than Stone on the perimeter.  He's not as highly rated as either but I wouldn't sleep on his potential.  Koenig and Hayes are around for another 3 years.  Bo will continue to bring in great players like Pritzl and (hopefully) Sharma.  Nothing to worry about if we happen to miss out on Stone and Ellenson.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 8:33 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Wowza!  How did Ellenson move all the way up to #5 so fast???  I thought he was rated like in the #40 - #65 range for player ranking in most rankings???

http://espn.go.com/college-spo...gs/_/order/true
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:02 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Agree.
Tvtime wrote: I'm almost certain that the blue bloods are going off their evaluations, and not the espn ranking of a player. They want the best basketball players they can get, and they really don't give a **** what they are rated on espn.

Go Badgers!  On Wisconsin!

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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:12 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


IMO - Henry would be excellent in the Badger program.  He would grow year to year skill wise and be set for a nice career in the NBA.  

Diamond is a wonderful C and will do fine anywhere he goes.  He is a great prospect for the NBA so I would assume 1done.

Happ is going to be fun to watch mature and he'll be just fine.

I would like to see a PG, C (Duh) and SF taken (A.Tucker like -miss the "take it to the hoop"...Dekker will be gone soon.

Sharma is a good baller and has a nice balance to his frame, would love to get the trainer on him and do what he did to Kamisky/Berregen...seriously.

Oh, and ZSho will have a few big dunks this year.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:16 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Is Ellenson compare favorably to Kevin Love of the T-wolves?
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:38 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


In terms of what?
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:48 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Comparable yes, in a few years with some good coaching and training.  Doesn't have the same passing skills as Love but similar Offense/Defense...maybe rebounding with work.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 9:58 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 



betrage wrote: Ellenson's rise is most certainly not great news for UW. I think Silver hit the nail on the head. Ellenson just went from Plan B to Plan A for the Blue Bloods. But apparently you think that improves UW's  chances of landing him. Please explain your logic, at least, before calling someone an idiot.
Tvtime's post.

It's idiotic to think that the Blue Bloods would need help from the recruiting services to determine who should be on their Plan A or Plan B lists.


Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back - Bruce Lee.
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Posted: 6/3/2014 10:20 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


The ESPN 100 does not show that Wisconsin has offered Henry Ellenson and does not even have Wisconsin listed as having any interest in Sharma......
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Posted: 6/3/2014 10:29 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Returnfish,

Are Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Arizona, etc. going to suddenly go after Ellenson harder because he rose in the ESPN rankings to #5?  No, but that was not my point.

Now, try to follow this logic, if you can.

1. Ellenson played so well this spring and impressed the ESPN analysts so much that they moved him up from the 40s to #5.

2. No one moves up into the Top 5 unless he has been extremely impressive.

3. The bluebloods follow spring AAU ball very, very closely to see who has improved his game significantly and who has not.

4. Coaches from blueblood schools must have seen many of the same games ESPN analysts watched.

5. They, too, were very likely extremely impressed by Ellenson's level of play and his progress.

6.  Here it comes.  Stay with me here. For at least some of those elite programs Ellenson has now become more attractive - and therefore a higher priority - than he was prior to the spring because his level of play has improved dramatically.

There it is - the logic underlying my statement that his meteoric rise does not bode well for UW or MU.  I did not present my reasoning step by step because I thought it was fairly obvious, but I guess not.  I went from Step 1 straight to Step 6, but apparently inferential reasoning is not one of your strengths.

Now that I have spelled it out for you despite my "idiot" image, perhaps you would like to trash this step-by-step analysis.  If so, go for it.

Last edited 6/3/2014 10:30 PM by SilverWarrior

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Posted: 6/3/2014 11:15 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 



Ellenson's meteoric rise is not good news for UW or MU.  He was already on most of the blue bloods' radar screens, but he will now very likely move up to Plan A for some of those programs rather than Plan B.
you forgot your own formula--when trolling Badger forums, always start by saying that you are a huge Wisconsin fan and root for the Badgers 364 days per year.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:52 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Wisconsin will be in it to the end for both Stone and Ellenson. We will get one of them.


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  • awich1
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Posted: 6/4/2014 4:47 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


At least one poster on Duke board, while bad-mouthing Roy Williams for frequently jumping on board recruits after Duke has offered, thinks Ellenson is heading our way.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 5:49 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


I think you'd be amazed at how many staffs recruit based on star ratings and a players other offers. I don't think it's particularly smart, but it happens all the time. I'd think it happens quite often when offering a guy a preferred walk on position. You don't think his offer list comes into play on that? Coaches offer players without ever seeing them play until the day they offer. They do it off of highlight films some times, although this probably exists moreso in football than basketball. They do all sorts of careless stuff when it comes to recruiting. Some of it idiocy, perhaps, but they still do it. So i don't think that it's all that idiotic to suggest a rise to #5 in the overall rankings causes coaches to ramp up their efforts when it comes to their recruiting approach.
UWRX95 wrote:
betrage wrote: Ellenson's rise is most certainly not great news for UW. I think Silver hit the nail on the head. Ellenson just went from Plan B to Plan A for the Blue Bloods. But apparently you think that improves UW's  chances of landing him. Please explain your logic, at least, before calling someone an idiot.
Tvtime's post.

It's idiotic to think that the Blue Bloods would need help from the recruiting services to determine who should be on their Plan A or Plan B lists.

Last edited 6/4/2014 6:09 AM by betrage

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Posted: 6/4/2014 6:58 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 



awich1 wrote: At least one poster on Duke board, while bad-mouthing Roy Williams for frequently jumping on board recruits after Duke has offered, thinks Ellenson is heading our way.
"our"????  And you're a fan of which team?  UW, UNC, Duke, or Rutgers (the board which 8 of you last 10 post have been on).

Last edited 6/4/2014 6:59 AM by HugeUpside

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Posted: 6/4/2014 7:51 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 



betrage wrote: I think you'd be amazed at how many staffs recruit based on star ratings and a players other offers. I don't think it's particularly smart, but it happens all the time. I'd think it happens quite often when offering a guy a preferred walk on position. You don't think his offer list comes into play on that? Coaches offer players without ever seeing them play until the day they offer. They do it off of highlight films some times, although this probably exists moreso in football than basketball. They do all sorts of careless stuff when it comes to recruiting. Some of it idiocy, perhaps, but they still do it. So i don't think that it's all that idiotic to suggest a rise to #5 in the overall rankings causes coaches to ramp up their efforts when it comes to their recruiting approach.

A player's other offers have an impact, sure, but you've got the ratings thing pretty backwards.  Guys shoot up the ratings after getting offers from blue bloods, not the other way around.  A couple weeks ago, Ellenson got offers from Duke, UNC and UCLA.  It's not a coincidence that he flew up the ratings soon after.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 7:59 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Guess what.  There are whole lot more out there just like me.  I'm guessing most of them/us grew up in the Milwaukee area, just like I did, cheered for both UW and MU as kids, and continued as adults.

Here's another flash for you, one you probably won't like, but that's your problem.  I work with a lot of high schools juniors and seniors - kids from more than 20 schools throughout the metro Milwaukee area, and you'd be surprised how many of them are both MU and UW fans.  And among those kids who actually play high school basketball in the area - both boys and girls - you'd be amazed how many are fans of both programs.
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  • jakeec
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Posted: 6/4/2014 8:03 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 



SilverWarrior wrote: Guess what.  There are whole lot more out there just like me.  I'm guessing most of them/us grew up in the Milwaukee area, just like I did, cheered for both UW and MU as kids, and continued as adults.

Here's another flash for you, one you probably won't like, but that's your problem.  I work with a lot of high schools juniors and seniors - kids from more than 20 schools throughout the metro Milwaukee area, and you'd be surprised how many of them are both MU and UW fans.  And among those kids who actually play high school basketball in the area - both boys and girls - you'd be amazed how many are fans of both programs.
I dont doubt there are people like that but I doubt you are one of them.  Most of the time you post here it is about Marquette or a negative slant on something for the Badgers - here is why Ellenson probably wont come, Jarvis Johnson is struggling, etc.  Not terrible stuff but it isnt like you were here posting consistently during the season when the Badgers were winning.  You say you are a fan but you have given zero reason for many of us to think you actually like the Badgers.  When I like a team I compliment them quite often and I get excited when they are having success.  I havent seen any of that from you.  If you do compliment it is usually followed by a but.  The Badgers are playing well but...
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Posted: 6/4/2014 8:08 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


I understand how the ratings thing works. I never implied offers would start to pour in for Ellenson, specifically, they already have. I'm just pointing out that it's naive to think that recruiting efforts don't also increase after a player shoots up in the rankings. "post hoc ergo proctor hoc"

Let me be clear here, it's not the evaluation being done by these ranking services, so much as the attention they draw on a player's progress/level of interest. Basically, my response was to a poster who thought it idiotic that these things have any influence on recruiting. My opinion is slightly different.
panama74 wrote:
betrage wrote: I think you'd be amazed at how many staffs recruit based on star ratings and a players other offers. I don't think it's particularly smart, but it happens all the time. I'd think it happens quite often when offering a guy a preferred walk on position. You don't think his offer list comes into play on that? Coaches offer players without ever seeing them play until the day they offer. They do it off of highlight films some times, although this probably exists moreso in football than basketball. They do all sorts of careless stuff when it comes to recruiting. Some of it idiocy, perhaps, but they still do it. So i don't think that it's all that idiotic to suggest a rise to #5 in the overall rankings causes coaches to ramp up their efforts when it comes to their recruiting approach.

A player's other offers have an impact, sure, but you've got the ratings thing pretty backwards.  Guys shoot up the ratings after getting offers from blue bloods, not the other way around.  A couple weeks ago, Ellenson got offers from Duke, UNC and UCLA.  It's not a coincidence that he flew up the ratings soon after.

Last edited 6/4/2014 8:16 AM by betrage

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Posted: 6/4/2014 8:13 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


But which is the chicken and which is the egg?  Or is it more of a simultaneous event.

As I tried to explain in another reply to the guy who referred to me as an "idiot," ESPN analysts had to be extremely impressed with Ellenson's play this spring to have him leap up from the 40s to #5. In short, his level of play, and his progress, obviously stood out.

Duke, UNC, UCLA, and other coaches obviously monitored the EYBL very closely, meaning they watched the same games the ESPN guys did.  If Ellenson's improved game stood out that much to ESPN, it surely must have done the same to Duke, UCLA, and other staffs.  Thus the offers.

Koening got an offer from UNC but that didn't improve his ranking.  Tokoto got an offer from UNC and other bluebloods, but his ranking actually dropped spring and summer before his senior year.

The fact that Ellenson jumped into ESPN's Top 5 means his game has evolved to the point where Duke, UCLA, etc. will be even more interested in him.

The same thing happened with Embiid.  He was Plan B or Plan C going into spring of last year, but his level of play shot him up the rankings, and he suddenly found himself in the Top 20 (#16 on RSCI).  What happened?  Kansas made him a top priority, and he ended up a Jayhawk.

Had he not played in the spring and summer or played at the same level he had before then, he would not have ended up in Kansas.

Another example is Tyler Ulis and Kentucky.  The list could go on and on.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:01 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Most of the time I post here - which has averaged around 19 posts per year since 2004 - it is to reply to something I perceive as unfairly negative or misleading about MU. That is true.  I would guess a majority of my posts over the years would fit that description - like my responses to the recent statement that MU is a "good mid-major job."  The degree of hostility toward anything MU by some posters here is, in my mind over the top.

However, if you were to read my posts on MU boards, you'd see I have the same issue with MU fans who have the same attitude toward UW.

You would also see that I am sometimes very critical of things going on within MU's program.  This entire past year I was very critical of Buzz's coaching, from whom he played and didn't play to combinations on the floor to game strategies and decisions.

I was also critical of the proliferation of transfers during both the Crean and Buzz eras.

I was also critical of some of the decisions made by the former MU administration and the Board of Trustees. 

With respect to UW, I think and have posted over the years that Bo has done an amazing job over the years.  I do not think Bo is the infallible "god" some fans on this site make him out to be, and I took issue with MU fans who took a similar view of Buzz.  In fact, I was extremely vocal about that on MU boards.

For the record, I think one of the major differences between many Badger fans and most MU fans is that MU fans, even if they profess not to like him, give Bo his due as a coach.  There is widespread respect, even admiration, for his coaching ability. I very seldom - if ever - found that kind of attitude toward Buzz's achievements at MU.  Instead, many Badger fans seem to take pleasure in personal attacks ("Scuzz," for example), and that will probably continue during Wojo's era, despite every indication that he is a very good person.

By the way, I do refrain at times from posting on this site because too often when I do, things get sidetracked because some posters can not get beyond my board name, and I end up spending more time on posts like this than on the topic.

For example, I really wanted - several times last season - to come to the defense of Traevon Jackson.  In my view he was unfairly criticized by many posters.

I also wanted to comment on the unbelievable improvement in Kaminsky's play.  I still find it hard to believe how much he progressed. 

But I was also tempted at times to express my feelings that many fans had unrealistic expectations for Dekker, especially those who, pre-season, predicted he would be all-conference.  Some even predicted he would be in the running for conference POY.  But had I posted something like that, I would have been crucified as just another hostile MU (or should I say "Pukette"?) fan trying to tear down the Badgers.

The truth is that I expressed the same types of doubts on MU boards to those who said Jamil Wilson would have a "break out year" or that Mayo would end up being "better than Blue," and so forth.  I have already expressed similar feelings to those who have incredibly high expectations for Fischer next year.

The difference is that on MU boards, the discussion sticks to the topic.  I don't get called an "idiot." No one tells me I need to take "medication."
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:24 AM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


You're a Marquette fan. A child could see that.

Back to the topic. Wisconsin could easily land Stone, Ellenson or Sharma. Wisconsin is a great school and hoops program
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:16 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


BadassBucky wrote: IMO - Henry would be excellent in the Badger program.  He would grow year to year skill wise and be set for a nice career in the NBA.  

Diamond is a wonderful C and will do fine anywhere he goes.  He is a great prospect for the NBA so I would assume 1done.

Happ is going to be fun to watch mature and he'll be just fine.

I would like to see a PG, C (Duh) and SF taken (A.Tucker like -miss the "take it to the hoop"...Dekker will be gone soon.

Sharma is a good baller and has a nice balance to his frame, would love to get the trainer on him and do what he did to Kamisky/Berregen...seriously.

Oh, and ZSho will have a few big dunks this year.
How many turnovers will he have?  Because he can't dribble.
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  • Bucky10
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:27 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


My gut feeling is (and has been for some time) that we land Sharma and Ellenson to go with Pritzl.  I think Bo will take one more for sure and probably two more, but I have no speculation on that.  I don't see how Ellenson and Sharma can watch what Kaminsky did this year and not see a bright future at UW, especially Ellenson being from Wisconsin.  If I could choose now I would love to add Whitt to the trio of players I believe we'll get (or already have with Pritzl).  I believe Stone will strongly consider us, but in the end will end up at either a blue blood or following Newman to some school that will be able to take both of them.  Just my gut feeling.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:33 PM

Re: Diamond Stone #4 and Ellenson #5 in ESPN 


Who needs to dribble when you can fly. LOL.  

What can I say, I pull for the guys that hustle and have tenacity for the game....
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