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ESPN: Marquette a bad job

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Posted: 5/27/2014 5:39 PM

ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


Ouch.  

Marquette

Marquette

I grew up in Milwaukee. Everyone in the area recognizes Marquette as a school with high academic standards and an occasionally impressive basketball program. But the top local athletes would choose Wisconsin over Marquette in most situations. The Chicago kids that a successful Marquette coach has to pursue have a multitude of options, too. The city has a lot to offer but the area that surrounds the campus doesn't showcase the highs. And the Golden Eagles are residents of a Big East that lacks the lucrative TV deal that the old Big East commanded. That's a problem for a Marquette team that spends significantly more per participant than any other Big East school. The Golden Eagles could use more cash. The private university is wrestling with financial problems. And it's in the middle of a messy transitional period within its administrative ranks. The new regime could create academic barriers that might affect Steve Wojciechowski's recruiting plans. So it's easy to see why Marquette isn't the most appealing job in college basketball.

http://espn.go.com/mens-colleg...lege-basketball

Last edited 5/27/2014 5:40 PM by thesup

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Posted: 5/27/2014 6:21 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.


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Posted: 5/27/2014 8:46 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
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Posted: 5/27/2014 9:03 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


I didn't know not making a postseason tournament equated success at Marquette.  Today I learned....
mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
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Posted: 5/27/2014 9:06 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


It's about to be a really bad job when the power 5 conference schools break away from the other conferences.
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Posted: 5/27/2014 9:48 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
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Posted: 5/27/2014 9:52 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
I will admit that was a pretty poor and inaccurate article on Marquette, however those Marquette recruits you bring up weren't really recruited by Wisconsin, heck Nick N was practically begging for an offer after he opened his recruitment back up.  Vander Blue and Wes Matthews would be better examples.
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Posted: 5/27/2014 11:40 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)

No doubt the article had some errors.  No way MU is a "bad" job.  It's a very good job.  At the same time, a LOT of MU fans feel Marquette is the Duke of the Midwest.  It's just not.  The reality of the situation is MU is a good mid-major program.  Nothing wrong with that.  3 of MU's last 4 coaches moved on to P5 level jobs.  That screams stepping stone job.  That, more than anything, defines where MU's program is positioned in the grand scheme of things.  Wojo might take MU to the Final Four within 3-4 years.  That would be great but IF it happens Wojo would be moving on to a P5 level job before the ink dried on his contract extension.

As for Wisconsin recruits, Bo wanted and landed Koenig over Wilson.  Burton might end up being a heck of a player but Nigel Hayes and Vitto Brown were more important gets given the lack of size on UW's roster.  We'll see with Cohen but I'd say Happ is a better prospect at this point in time.  As others have said, Noskowiak practically begged for a UW offer after Buzz left and only re-committed to MU after it was obvious UW wasn't going to oblige.  Bottom line:  UW has a clear advantage in recruiting Wisconsin talent.
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Posted: 5/28/2014 5:05 AM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
UW was not an option for any of those kids. Given that not every kid wants to go to Madison but none of those examples strengthen your argument.
" Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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Posted: 5/28/2014 7:52 AM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



EarlyTimes22 wrote: It's about to be a really bad job when the power 5 conference schools break away from the other conferences.

This is exactly right.  As the power 5 break away, the other "have nots" will continue to fall further and further behind in money, tv power, recruiting, coaching, etc.  That gap will only increase as power 5 conferences tv contracts come up for renewal in the next go 'round.  And the TV pull for MU will be a huge hit considering the loss of teams like Cuse, Louisville, etc. from their conference.

"Players make plays, players win games."

Gary Andersen

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Posted: 5/28/2014 9:18 AM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)

NBA arena that is a dump. 

What major program doesn't have dedicated money?  noidea

Recent success under a completely different administration and coach recently trumped by missing postseason completely and now competing in a mid major conference.
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Posted: 5/28/2014 1:30 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



cor232000 wrote:
mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
I will admit that was a pretty poor and inaccurate article on Marquette, however those Marquette recruits you bring up weren't really recruited by Wisconsin, heck Nick N was practically begging for an offer after he opened his recruitment back up.  Vander Blue and Wes Matthews would be better examples.
Noskowiak had no interest in Wisconsin
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Posted: 5/28/2014 5:41 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 


I understand why you and others on the board would like everyone to view MU as a "mid-major" job and the Big East as a "mid-major" conference.  And you are certainly entitled to think what you want.

The problem with that point of view is simple: top recruits do not view the conference as "mid-major." In fact, if you look at Scout's Top 100 players for the Class of 2014, 16 committed to Big East schools.  What is also impressive is that those 16 commitments cover seven of the 10 programs: MU, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton.

Sorry, but 16 Top 100 recruits do not commit to a "mid-major" conference.

Just for the record, of those Top 100 recruits according to Scout, 13 have committed to Big 10/11/14 programs, and three of those 13 committed to Maryland.  Looking a tad deeper, those 13 recruits covered only 6 of 14 conference schools: Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland.

Granted, there are definitely limitations to these rankings, but in terms of perception, making a major Top 100 ranking is significant as those players are perceived as prized recruiting targets.

Bottom line is simple:  you may view the Big East as a "mid-major" conference and MU as a "mid-major" program, but the only ones that really matter - prospective recruits - don't share that view.  For them, the Big East is definitely high-major.

One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.

Down the road, could the Big East slip to mid-major status?  Yes.  But if the conference can continue to attract Top 100 recruits like it did in the Class of 2014, I wouldn't bet on that happening.

Last edited 5/28/2014 5:44 PM by SilverWarrior

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Posted: 5/28/2014 6:54 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



kstate323 wrote:
cor232000 wrote:
mubb34 wrote:
Activebadger wrote: I don't think Myron said anything that wasn't true.  Marquette has a ton of challenges now that are highlighted by not being in a major conference anymore.  Buzz Williams left for a reason and saw the handwriting on the wall.  

The situation is made worse by all of the success Wisconsin has had over the last decade plus and even more so with a recent Final Four trip.  Most in-state kids are going to want to go to Wisconsin, not Marquette.  Buzz took a lot more risks for players had academic issues because he had to.
Besides the fact that they play in the BMO Bradley Center? Also, all of the Wisconsin kids want to go to Madison? Duane Wilison? Sandy Cohen? Deonte Burton? Nick N? ( From Sun Prarie)....I agree that it is going to be a challenge and is not as "good" as a job because of the conference switch, but my God that was a poorly written article.

(Not to mention top 15 attendance, NBA arena, dedicated money to the bball program, recent success)
I will admit that was a pretty poor and inaccurate article on Marquette, however those Marquette recruits you bring up weren't really recruited by Wisconsin, heck Nick N was practically begging for an offer after he opened his recruitment back up.  Vander Blue and Wes Matthews would be better examples.
Noskowiak had no interest in Wisconsin
Then everyone should be happy. rolleyes
" Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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Posted: 5/28/2014 7:27 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



thesup wrote: Ouch.  

Marquette


I grew up in Milwaukee. Everyone in the area recognizes Marquette as a school with high academic standards and an occasionally impressive basketball program. But the top local athletes would choose Wisconsin over Marquette in most situations. The Chicago kids that a successful Marquette coach has to pursue have a multitude of options, too. The city has a lot to offer but the area that surrounds the campus doesn't showcase the highs. And the Golden Eagles are residents of a Big East that lacks the lucrative TV deal that the old Big East commanded. That's a problem for a Marquette team that spends significantly more per participant than any other Big East school. The Golden Eagles could use more cash. The private university is wrestling with financial problems. And it's in the middle of a messy transitional period within its administrative ranks. The new regime could create academic barriers that might affect Steve Wojciechowski's recruiting plans. So it's easy to see why Marquette isn't the most appealing job in college basketball.

http://espn.go.com/mens-colleg...lege-basketball

can someone elaborate?

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Posted: 5/28/2014 8:15 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



YouAreOur wrote:
thesup wrote: Ouch.  

Marquette


I grew up in Milwaukee. Everyone in the area recognizes Marquette as a school with high academic standards and an occasionally impressive basketball program. But the top local athletes would choose Wisconsin over Marquette in most situations. The Chicago kids that a successful Marquette coach has to pursue have a multitude of options, too. The city has a lot to offer but the area that surrounds the campus doesn't showcase the highs. And the Golden Eagles are residents of a Big East that lacks the lucrative TV deal that the old Big East commanded. That's a problem for a Marquette team that spends significantly more per participant than any other Big East school. The Golden Eagles could use more cash. The private university is wrestling with financial problems. And it's in the middle of a messy transitional period within its administrative ranks. The new regime could create academic barriers that might affect Steve Wojciechowski's recruiting plans. So it's easy to see why Marquette isn't the most appealing job in college basketball.

http://espn.go.com/mens-colleg...lege-basketball

can someone elaborate?

I don't know the specifics but they laid off 125 people this year. Lots of private colleges are laying off people for a number of reasons. It's really not very unique.
--------------------------------
"Badger Football Message Board... the nation's premier source for psychological advice" - ETR

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Posted: 5/28/2014 10:56 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 



SilverWarrior wrote: I understand why you and others on the board would like everyone to view MU as a "mid-major" job and the Big East as a "mid-major" conference.  And you are certainly entitled to think what you want.

The problem with that point of view is simple: top recruits do not view the conference as "mid-major." In fact, if you look at Scout's Top 100 players for the Class of 2014, 16 committed to Big East schools.  What is also impressive is that those 16 commitments cover seven of the 10 programs: MU, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton.

Sorry, but 16 Top 100 recruits do not commit to a "mid-major" conference.

Just for the record, of those Top 100 recruits according to Scout, 13 have committed to Big 10/11/14 programs, and three of those 13 committed to Maryland.  Looking a tad deeper, those 13 recruits covered only 6 of 14 conference schools: Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland.

Granted, there are definitely limitations to these rankings, but in terms of perception, making a major Top 100 ranking is significant as those players are perceived as prized recruiting targets.

Bottom line is simple:  you may view the Big East as a "mid-major" conference and MU as a "mid-major" program, but the only ones that really matter - prospective recruits - don't share that view.  For them, the Big East is definitely high-major.

One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.

Down the road, could the Big East slip to mid-major status?  Yes.  But if the conference can continue to attract Top 100 recruits like it did in the Class of 2014, I wouldn't bet on that happening.

It was the 7th best conference this year... Call it whatever you want. 

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Posted: 5/28/2014 11:24 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 


devil
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Posted: 5/29/2014 1:00 AM

Re: Mid-Major? 





---------------------------------------------
--- SilverWarrior wrote:



One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.



---------------------------------------------

You obviously don't understand that dynamic. Who owns the Big Ten Network? Who also broadcasts Big East conference games?

Survey says!..........FOX

FOX owning those rights is why that challenges is happening. Has nothing to due with the prestige of the league


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Posted: 5/29/2014 4:58 AM

Re: Mid-Major? 



Activebadger wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- SilverWarrior wrote:



One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.



---------------------------------------------

You obviously don't understand that dynamic. Who owns the Big Ten Network? Who also broadcasts Big East conference games?

Survey says!..........FOX

FOX owning those rights is why that challenges is happening. Has nothing to due with the prestige of the league
Exactly.
" Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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Posted: 5/29/2014 8:56 AM

Re: Mid-Major? 


For the record, in head-to-head competition last season, the Big East was 5 - 5 against the BIG.  You would think the BIG would do better than .500 against a "mid-major" conference.

Butler beat Purdue, Creighton beat Nebraska, DePaul beat Northwestern, Georgetown beat Michigan State, and Nova beat Iowa.

On the other side of the coin, UW beat MU and St. John's, Ohio State beat MU, Penn State beat St. John's, and Iowa beat Xavier.

Then again, the Big East was 4 - 3 versus SEC teams, 4 - 5 versus ACC teams, 5 - 4 versus Pac 12 teams, and 3 -5 versus Big 12 teams.

So, against the five big football powerhouse conferences, the Big East was 21 - 22.  Not exactly shabby for a "mid-major conference."

Oh, and the Big East was 3 - 0 versus the AAC, which I guess is another mid-major league.
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Posted: 5/29/2014 9:11 AM

Re: Mid-Major? 





---------------------------------------------
--- SilverWarrior wrote:

For the record, in head-to-head competition last season, the Big East was 5 - 5 against the BIG.  You would think the BIG would do better than .500 against a "mid-major" conference.

Butler beat Purdue, Creighton beat Nebraska, DePaul beat Northwestern, Georgetown beat Michigan State, and Nova beat Iowa.

On the other side of the coin, UW beat MU and St. John's, Ohio State beat MU, Penn State beat St. John's, and Iowa beat Xavier.

Then again, the Big East was 4 - 3 versus SEC teams, 4 - 5 versus ACC teams, 5 - 4 versus Pac 12 teams, and 3 -5 versus Big 12 teams.

So, against the five big football powerhouse conferences, the Big East was 21 - 22.  Not exactly shabby for a "mid-major conference."

Oh, and the Big East was 3 - 0 versus the AAC, which I guess is another mid-major league.

---------------------------------------------

The new alignment was in its first year. The Big East is still a major conference for now, but unless something drastic happens, I just don't see how they maintain at that level. 5 years from now it'll be CUSA v2.0, unless you can explain a viable route to staying up with the P5 conferences. I just don't see one.
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Posted: 5/29/2014 10:16 AM

Re: Mid-Major? 


I guess my response would be that for a lot of kids, especially kids in large urban areas, basketball is #1, and the idea of playing in a conference where hoops is, and always will be, #1, too, is attractive.

Plus, many, maybe even most, of these kids grow up in large urban environments, and urban campuses feel like home.  They are not put off by an urban campus; they're more comfortable being in a large city.

If, over the next two or three years, the conference can routinely place at least four teams (preferably five) in the NCAA and do reasonably well in the tournament, I think the conference will continue to be high-major.  That is why the recruiting Class of 2014 is so important.  Those kids will be juniors three years from now.

The fact that Georgetown landed four Top 100 recruits this year is huge (along with one in the Class of 2013).  Nova landed two last year and two in the Class of '14.  MU landed three in the Class of '13 in Burton, Wilson, and Johnson, then added Fischer as a transfer and Cohen in '14.

But the fact that Providence had its best recruiting class in probably 25 years this year is also telling.  Seton Hall landing two Top 50 recruits this year is the best SHU has done recruiting-wise in close to two decades.  Xavier has gotten commitments in the past from an occasional Top 100 kid, but not three in one year, like they did in the Class of '14.

That is the key: recruiting talented players.

It does not hurt that Fox Sports has given the league some solid financial stability and security for the next several years.  I doubt Fox Sports will ever rival ESPN, but I have learned not to under-estimate Fox.  They are in this for the long haul, not the short term, and they will do whatever they think necessary to succeed.

The Big East of the past seven-eight years is gone, and the new Big East will never come close to what the earlier version achieved.  But I think it will likely remain a major player on the college basketball scene.

Last edited 5/29/2014 10:18 AM by SilverWarrior

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Posted: 5/29/2014 11:12 AM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


1) If you have to make arguments to convince people you're a high major, you're not.

2) I've been aware of Myron Medcalf for several years now, starting when he was the Gophers beat writer for the Mpls paper where I live. He has been consistently poor his whole career, IMO, and this article is just the latest example. Even articles you'd like to agree with you have to discount. The next time he makes a well-researched and thought out argument will be his first. He's such a hack.

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Posted: 5/29/2014 12:53 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 



FormerlyBIS wrote:

1) If you have to make arguments to convince people you're a high major, you're not.


Winner!!!
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Posted: 5/29/2014 1:34 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 



CloudsOfDust wrote:


---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------

The new alignment was in its first year. The Big East is still a major conference for now, but unless something drastic happens, I just don't see how they maintain at that level. 5 years from now it'll be CUSA v2.0, unless you can explain a viable route to staying up with the P5 conferences. I just don't see one.
I just don't see the comparison to CUSA.  CUSA was a group of southern football schools with some consistently elite basketball schools (Cincinnati under Huggins, Louisville and Memphis) and some terrible basketball schools (e.g., Tulane) strangely mixed with some solid Midwestern basketball only schools.  The Big East is a basketball only Northeastern/Midwestern conference.  If you want to be derisive, I would refer to it as the A10 v.2.
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Posted: 5/29/2014 2:19 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


In other words, if fans of a program have to make arguments to convince people (and themselves) that they have reached elite status as a Top 10 program, then they're not?
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Posted: 5/29/2014 2:23 PM

Re: ESPN: Marquette a bad job 


I thought we established that not making ANY postseason tournament is the measuring stick for being"elite."
SilverWarrior wrote: In other words, if fans of a program have to make arguments to convince people (and themselves) that they have reached elite status as a Top 10 program, then they're not?
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Posted: 5/29/2014 2:24 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 



SilverWarrior wrote: I understand why you and others on the board would like everyone to view MU as a "mid-major" job and the Big East as a "mid-major" conference.  And you are certainly entitled to think what you want.

The problem with that point of view is simple: top recruits do not view the conference as "mid-major." In fact, if you look at Scout's Top 100 players for the Class of 2014, 16 committed to Big East schools.  What is also impressive is that those 16 commitments cover seven of the 10 programs: MU, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton.

Sorry, but 16 Top 100 recruits do not commit to a "mid-major" conference.

Just for the record, of those Top 100 recruits according to Scout, 13 have committed to Big 10/11/14 programs, and three of those 13 committed to Maryland.  Looking a tad deeper, those 13 recruits covered only 6 of 14 conference schools: Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland.

Granted, there are definitely limitations to these rankings, but in terms of perception, making a major Top 100 ranking is significant as those players are perceived as prized recruiting targets.

Bottom line is simple:  you may view the Big East as a "mid-major" conference and MU as a "mid-major" program, but the only ones that really matter - prospective recruits - don't share that view.  For them, the Big East is definitely high-major.

One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.

Down the road, could the Big East slip to mid-major status?  Yes.  But if the conference can continue to attract Top 100 recruits like it did in the Class of 2014, I wouldn't bet on that happening.

This.

Back when MU first joined the Big East I said that the conference -- despite just adding several new members -- was dead man walking.  The writing was on the wall.  No way would the Big East be able to survive because future conference realignment was imminent and the Big East was clearly the weakest remaining power conference.  Its best members would be picked off at some point.  I further stated that MU would end up in a conference with the other basketball only Big East schools and that it was, overall, a good outcome for MU compared to the days of CUSA.  The vast majority of MU fans thought I was crazy.  It was wishful thinking on my part. 

The Big East actually flourished for a number of years which gave many MU fans false hope.  This was the greatest collection of college basketball powers under one conference.  How could it possibly fail?  Of course, the inevitable finally did happen and the Big East of old is no more.  The only mildly surprising development was the Catholic 7 schools managed to keep the Big East name.  A very nice "get", if you will.

Today, it doesn't matter that the new Big East is off to a solid start.  It doesn't matter how many top 100 recruits its members sign.  It doesn't matter if it wins games against the B1G or the ACC.  The writing is, once again, on the wall.  The terms "Power Five" and "P5" offer yet another clue to the future.  The new Big East no longer has a seat at the big table.  This perception along with an ever increasing gap in TV revenue will allow the majority of P5 member schools to slowly but surely pull away from schools like MU in terms facilities, coaching, exposure, and recruiting.
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Posted: 5/29/2014 2:50 PM

Re: Mid-Major? 



bdmatt wrote:
SilverWarrior wrote: I understand why you and others on the board would like everyone to view MU as a "mid-major" job and the Big East as a "mid-major" conference.  And you are certainly entitled to think what you want.

The problem with that point of view is simple: top recruits do not view the conference as "mid-major." In fact, if you look at Scout's Top 100 players for the Class of 2014, 16 committed to Big East schools.  What is also impressive is that those 16 commitments cover seven of the 10 programs: MU, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton.

Sorry, but 16 Top 100 recruits do not commit to a "mid-major" conference.

Just for the record, of those Top 100 recruits according to Scout, 13 have committed to Big 10/11/14 programs, and three of those 13 committed to Maryland.  Looking a tad deeper, those 13 recruits covered only 6 of 14 conference schools: Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland.

Granted, there are definitely limitations to these rankings, but in terms of perception, making a major Top 100 ranking is significant as those players are perceived as prized recruiting targets.

Bottom line is simple:  you may view the Big East as a "mid-major" conference and MU as a "mid-major" program, but the only ones that really matter - prospective recruits - don't share that view.  For them, the Big East is definitely high-major.

One more thing, the Big 10/11/14 commissioner obviously does not perceive the Big East as "mid-major."  There is no way he would set up a conference challenge with a  "mid-major" conference.

Down the road, could the Big East slip to mid-major status?  Yes.  But if the conference can continue to attract Top 100 recruits like it did in the Class of 2014, I wouldn't bet on that happening.

It was the 7th best conference this year... Call it whatever you want. 

Big East was 4th in the RPI.
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