The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

thebadge10 wrote: I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

Brust: 50-104 on 2 point shots (.481)
Dekker: 51-95  on 2 point shots (.537)

Dekker has also made 6 more free throws.

PS - Brust has played 320 more minutes than Dekker.

thebadge10 wrote: I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

Well except that Brust gets a much higher percentage of his points from 3s than Dekker does.

To the OP - yes if you aren't willing to work hard or you are only interested in showing off for the NBA and you think you are a one and done it might make sense to play fopr someone other than Bo

So your observation is Dekker is one trick pony because all he does is shoot threes but Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon?  You do realize that 60% of Ben Brust's shots this year have come from behind the three point line while 50% of Sam Dekker's shots have come behind the three point line, right?

You might be the only one who thinks Ben Brust's all-around offensive game is more proficient than Sam Dekker's. 

thebadge10 wrote: I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

4badgerdenu4 wrote: So your observation is Dekker is one trick pony because all he does is shoot threes but Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon?  You do realize that 60% of Ben Brust's shots this year have come from behind the three point line while 50% of Sam Dekker's shots have come behind the three point line, right?

You might be the only one who thinks Ben Brust's all-around offensive game is more proficient than Sam Dekker's. 

thebadge10 wrote: I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

Throug the first 10 games or so, there was no question that Brust's all-around offensive game was better. More shots, more minutes, more scoring, more assists, more rebounds, etc.

Over the last 10 games, that has changed a lot. Just what you'd expect for a FR.

thebadge10 wrote: I would argue that Ben Brust is our best offensive weapon. Up until recently Dekker is a one trick pony. He shoots threes and does it very well.

Not to pile on, but this just isn't true for the various reasons stated above.

You could certainly make the argument that Brust is our best all-around player when considering rebounding and defense, but not purely offensively.

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

So many people make it seem like Dekker is not getting much playing time.  He is getting 22 mpg.  That is pretty good considering he plays the same position as 2 senior forwards who have tons of experience.  The other 2 forwards are a huge reason this teams defense is elite and why we are again toward the top of the big 10. 

Bo Ryan does not favor seniors, juniors, sophomores or freshman.  He favors players who will most help the team get wins.  Defense is half of the game, so it would make sense that a players defense has a huge part in whether a team will win or lose. 

Bo Ryan wouldn't have the highest winning percentage in big 10 history if he favored upperclassmen despite not being as good.  He plays the players that are best able to help the team win the current game...even if they are more limited as players.

If a player is afraid to play for Bo, it is likely because he doesn't care about defense.  If that is the case, he doesn't care about winning and I would prefer he not play here anyway.

Hard to buy the argument Bo doesn't favor upperclassmen when pretty much the whole year we watched ryan evans and mike b. make some of the same mistakes as dekker did, yet dekker was the one that sat while the others didn't. A teaching point should be a teaching point whether your dealing with a frosh or an upperclassman.

Dekker scores but he isn't as good a defender and he doesn't rebound all that well. I think his minutes in total are appropriate, but I do think he should be on the court more often when UW is behind.

terror5 wrote: Hard to buy the argument Bo doesn't favor upperclassmen when pretty much the whole year we watched ryan evans and mike b. make some of the same mistakes as dekker did, yet dekker was the one that sat while the others didn't. A teaching point should be a teaching point whether your dealing with a frosh or an upperclassman.

This is wholly inaccurate.

terror5 wrote: Hard to buy the argument Bo doesn't favor upperclassmen when pretty much the whole year we watched ryan evans and mike b. make some of the same mistakes as dekker did, yet dekker was the one that sat while the others didn't. A teaching point should be a teaching point whether your dealing with a frosh or an upperclassman.

Our defense is elite.  Look at the numbers.  It is not just elite for teams this year.  It is elite for teams in this generation.  A HUGE reason for that is Evans and Bruisewitz.  Yes, they make more offensive mistakes than Dekker..without a doubt.  That doesn't make them worse players in terms of winning the game. 

How would you explain Bo Ryan having the highest winning percentage in big 10 history if what you say is true in that he doesn't even play his best players? 

Bo Ryan plays the players who will give the team the best chance to win.

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

So you know with certainty Vander Blue eventually chose MU over UW for the theory you proposed?

You're trying to argue Blue chose to -- your words -- go to a run and gun style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Williams doesn't emphasize defense? Really?

Though I must concede the point MU allows its players to showcase scoring far more than UW -- 69.2 ppg to 67.0 ppg.

And for the record, Dekker is averaging more minutes per game than Blue did as a freshman.

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

Yea, Vander didn't come to Wisconsin because of the need to play defense.

BO's defense is a man to man with many principles on help.  If one person on the defensive breaks down the whole team defense breaks down.  That is why in this system you must be able to guard your man.  A perfect example is Brust--- last year he was not a very good defensive player-- this year he changed that to be very good and is no longer a weakness.  

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

 you are putting VANDER ORANGE in the blue chip recruit category?? pssssssst please!!

CCBadger wrote:

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

Yea, Vander didn't come to Wisconsin because of the need to play defense.

If by 'defense' you mean 'student', then yes.

UWBuckethead wrote: BO's defense is a man to man with many principles on help.  If one person on the defensive breaks down the whole team defense breaks down.  That is why in this system you must be able to guard your man.  A perfect example is Brust--- last year he was not a very good defensive player-- this year he changed that to be very good and is no longer a weakness. 

Actually, I don't think that's the correct conclusion to be drawn from your first two sentences. I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have about Bo's tolerance for defensive breakdowns is that you can't get beat by your man. Certainly mental mistakes when guarding your man aren't given much leeway. But on-ball defense, guys get beat off the dribble all the time. The entire system is set up to deal with guys getting beat in that manner, sometimes the other guy is simply quicker and/or more athletic. What does gets very little tolerance are failures in help defense.

If you're the first level guy & get beat off the ball, there's 4 guys there to help. If you're the help & don't get there in time, then there's trouble. At that point, there's no longer any room to recover & an easy basket or foul often results.

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

So you know with certainty Vander Blue eventually chose MU over UW for the theory you proposed?

You're trying to argue Blue chose to -- your words -- go to a run and gun style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Williams doesn't emphasize defense? Really?

Though I must concede the point MU allows its players to showcase scoring far more than UW -- 69.2 ppg to 67.0 ppg.

And for the record, Dekker is averaging more minutes per game than Blue did as a freshman.

I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more (and saying defense isn't as high as a priority does not equate to saying Buzz Williams doesn't emphasize defense - talk about twisting words TGP).

maddogmarty wrote: 
I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more.

Pitt plays the same pace as UW (slower this year) and they have two four star recruits in their 2013 class. They also got a five star center last year.

---------------------------------------------
--- maddogmarty wrote:

The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

---------------------------------------------

The premise of the post is flawed in multiple areas. I will point out the obvious that all "blue chip" recruits do not go to "run and gun" ( whatever the definition of that is ) teams. An all around dumb post.

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

So you know with certainty Vander Blue eventually chose MU over UW for the theory you proposed?

You're trying to argue Blue chose to -- your words -- go to a run and gun style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Williams doesn't emphasize defense? Really?

Though I must concede the point MU allows its players to showcase scoring far more than UW -- 69.2 ppg to 67.0 ppg.

And for the record, Dekker is averaging more minutes per game than Blue did as a freshman.

I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more (and saying defense isn't as high as a priority does not equate to saying Buzz Williams doesn't emphasize defense - talk about twisting words TGP).

Again, how do you KNOW Williams doesn't prioritize defense as much as Bo does?

You attend many of MU practices? I doubt it.

You don't play defense at UW, you don't play much. You don't play defense for Williams, you don't play much.

Blue has developed nicely on offense. It's a tribute to his hard work. But he couldn't shoot straight as a freshman and played about 18-19 minutes per game. Why? Because he was a tenacious defender.

mudcannon wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: 
I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more.

Pitt plays the same pace as UW (slower this year) and they have two four star recruits in their 2013 class. They also got a five star center last year.

So what are you saying?  A program on par (or less during Bo's era) gets better recruits playing the same system...what does that say?

maddogmarty wrote:

mudcannon wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: 
I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more.

Pitt plays the same pace as UW (slower this year) and they have two four star recruits in their 2013 class. They also got a five star center last year.

So what are you saying?  A program on par (or less during Bo's era) gets better recruits playing the same system...what does that say?

It says every recruit is different.

Illini have a pair of bigs UW went after. They play for Groce now but they signed with Weber.

You going to argue Weber doesn't prioritize defense as much as Ryan? Or that he employed a run-an-gun system at Illinois?

redforeman62 wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- maddogmarty wrote:

The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

---------------------------------------------

The premise of the post is flawed in multiple areas. I will point out the obvious that all "blue chip" recruits do not go to "run and gun" ( whatever the definition of that is ) teams. An all around dumb post.

If the flawed premise was true, Dekker wouldn't be here and Koenig would not have signed.

maddogmarty wrote:

mudcannon wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: 
I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more.

Pitt plays the same pace as UW (slower this year) and they have two four star recruits in their 2013 class. They also got a five star center last year.

So what are you saying?  A program on par (or less during Bo's era) gets better recruits playing the same system...what does that say?

OK, so are you saying that Bo can't get elite recruits because of his system or because he can't recruit elite players?

---------------------------------------------
--- maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

---------------------------------------------

Vander Blue was not a "blue chip" recruit. But it is yet another indication of your simplistic and flawed questioning

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote:

potrykus wrote:

maddogmarty wrote: The "stereotype" being that Bo can't get "blue chip" recruits because, despite how gifted they may be offensiveily, he will make them sit until they play proficient defense.  Thus they'd rather go to a "run and gun" style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Dekker is clearly the best offensive threat the Badgers have yet he doesn't start or even get starter minutes.  One could argue Bo prefers someone strong defensively who is an offensive liability (Evans) over the other way around.  Does this drive recruits elsewhere?

Bronson Koenig is on hold and would like to share his thoughts.

Vander Blue and others hung up and already shared their thoughts.

So you know with certainty Vander Blue eventually chose MU over UW for the theory you proposed?

You're trying to argue Blue chose to -- your words -- go to a run and gun style system where defense isn't as high a priority and they can showcase their scoring.

Williams doesn't emphasize defense? Really?

Though I must concede the point MU allows its players to showcase scoring far more than UW -- 69.2 ppg to 67.0 ppg.

And for the record, Dekker is averaging more minutes per game than Blue did as a freshman.

I will argue Bo has not had elite recruits consistently (you used Koenig as one example and I used Blue - neither define the whole scenario of Bo's career here).  And one of the suppositions is that elite recruits prefer early playing time and to play in an uptempo offense.  And yes, Bo emphasizes defense more than Buzz Williams - a lot more, no, but more (and saying defense isn't as high as a priority does not equate to saying Buzz Williams doesn't emphasize defense - talk about twisting words TGP).

Again, how do you KNOW Williams doesn't prioritize defense as much as Bo does?

You attend many of MU practices? I doubt it.

You don't play defense at UW, you don't play much. You don't play defense for Williams, you don't play much.

Blue has developed nicely on offense. It's a tribute to his hard work. But he couldn't shoot straight as a freshman and played about 18-19 minutes per game. Why? Because he was a tenacious defender.

Why are you so hung up on Marquette?  I used Blue as an example.  This isn't a pissing match between UW and MU.  Other than Dekker and Koenig, name another elite recruit in the 12-year Bo era.  And by the way, much of what the casual observer believes how a program is run comes from the media coverage (= you).  And to you and your brethren, Bo emphasizes defense more than most, if not all, of college basketball.  So if you're trying to change the narrative, help us out.