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Bill Carmody's future
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:22 AM
Bill Carmody's future
1. He deserves a pass for this season. TOO many injuries for any real hope of success;
2. His NU teams, for the most part, struggle defending and on the boards.
NOT a successful roadmap for winning in the B10;
3. IF healthy AND unsuccessful in 13-14, might be time for the Nerds to remove
Carmody;
4. Hiring a defensive oriented coach might improve the play of the Nerds.
NOT going to win in the B10 being near last in D and Rebounding stats.
5. A young Bennett/Ryan type coach might be the solution for the Nerds.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:25 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Maybe someone like Ben Jacobson from UNI?
Another guy who I think is a real comer (but very young) is Billy Donlon at Wright State.
**** "Bully!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Last edited 2/21/2013 11:27 AM by BB Fran
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:33 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
TexasBadger wrote: 1. He deserves a pass for this season. TOO many injuries for any real hope of success;
2. His NU teams, for the most part, struggle defending and on the boards.
NOT a successful roadmap for winning in the B10;
3. IF healthy AND unsuccessful in 13-14, might be time for the Nerds to remove
Carmody;
4. Hiring a defensive oriented coach might improve the play of the Nerds.
NOT going to win in the B10 being near last in D and Rebounding stats.
5. A young Bennett/Ryan type coach might be the solution for the Nerds. As someone else pointed out, why have they not fired him yet? Are they afraid of slipping from the 9-10 spot and finishing dead last? Frankly, I don't care how good their academics are, if I were talented I would want nothing to do with that pathetic excuse for a stadium and gameday experience. No video board. 50 person student section on wooden risers. They didn't even have the band play the national anthem last night - imagine if you had to sing the anthem a capella at a funeral. That's what it sounded like. And then there's this: 
The light on that banner was CONVENIENTLY turned off. |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:33 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
NU needs to hire one of Bo or Dick Bennett's disciples.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:34 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
I think Carmody is better than some of the experts on this board believe. And the promise of the new athletic center is going to help with recruiting. Actually, the NW alumni have been fairly pleased at the general direction of the program, understanding that without the loss of at least one key player over the last couple of years, the team would have probably made the dance. Of course, this year has been a nightmare for the team and provides no pragmatic basis for a coaching change, although some on this board, who know far more than I do (or perhaps far less) think he's just not good enough...
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:35 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Jacobson would be a steal for the Nerds. Probably take a seven figure(annual) multi-year deal for him to make that move.
Donlon would be another good possible choice.
Unless they start defending/rebounding to B10 standards, they will continue to lose.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:40 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
TexasBadger wrote: 1. He deserves a pass for this season. TOO many injuries for any real hope of success;
2. His NU teams, for the most part, struggle defending and on the boards.
NOT a successful roadmap for winning in the B10;
3. IF healthy AND unsuccessful in 13-14, might be time for the Nerds to remove
Carmody;
4. Hiring a defensive oriented coach might improve the play of the Nerds.
NOT going to win in the B10 being near last in D and Rebounding stats.
5. A young Bennett/Ryan type coach might be the solution for the Nerds. For a defensive minded coach familiar with the midwest, they might want to turn to a guy like Jim Molinari (currently @ Western Ill). Not the most successful guy in the world, but also not the least, and his teams are usually outstanding defensively. He might be stop-gap, though, because he's almost 60. But, then again, look at what Miami is doing with Larranega. |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:40 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Why would a quality coach leave UNI for NU? Career suicide. NU must show a commitment to winning $$$$ or it won't matter. Dick Bennett is not coming out of retirement again. Hard to find another masochist to take that job and try to compete in the strongest conference in the nation.
" Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:43 AM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
TexasBadger wrote: 1. He deserves a pass for this season. TOO many injuries for any real hope of success;
2. His NU teams, for the most part, struggle defending and on the boards.
NOT a successful roadmap for winning in the B10;
3. IF healthy AND unsuccessful in 13-14, might be time for the Nerds to remove
Carmody;
4. Hiring a defensive oriented coach might improve the play of the Nerds.
NOT going to win in the B10 being near last in D and Rebounding stats.
5. A young Bennett/Ryan type coach might be the solution for the Nerds. He wins at a 32% rate over 13 years... why does that deserve another chance? If the current team wins one more game, his career Big 10 winning percentage will have increased slightly since the end of last year. You can play word games and say "he doesn't deserve to get fired because of this team's performance"; but he still deserves to get fired.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:43 AM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
Northwestern's football teams have the same constraints as the basketball team, if not even more considering they have to find 22 starters and 85 scholarship athletes. If they can make bowl games, crack the top 25, and even threaten for a BCS game every 15 years, there's absolutely no reason Carmody can't put an NCAA team out there or crack .500 in conference.
And if Vandy can be a decent team evey few years and put some resources into helping the program, NW can. They've got a huge talent pool to pull from. I'm assuming guys like Brust and Kaminsky could have made it academically there.
Carmody needs to be canned. I can't see any reason he shouldn't.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 11:50 AM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
For the sake of comparison take a look at NU coaches history en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northw...tball#section_2The problem is much bigger than the coach. Same problem UW had until they made a commitment to winning under Shalala/Richter. " Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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Posted: 2/21/2013 12:06 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
Like we discussed in last night's in-game thread. Carmody is a very good coach. The guy took an Ivy league squad to a top 5 spot in the polls. He went 28-0 in his first two seasons within the Ivy. That's very impressive...
But he hasn't had one (1!!) winning conference season within the B10 since arriving 13+ years ago. You'd think even a bad program would have one year where the talent, leadership, etc. would line up once in 13 seasons to get a winning record. The program isn't him as a coach, but with his system and philosophy. He has a program based more on precision of offense and not on building the defensive squads that can compete night in and night out in this conference. Look at how UW has continued it's run of top 4 finishes under Bo. The talent comes and goes (as evidence by analyst and even badger fans picking the badgers to finish outside the top 4 each year even though history tells us how stupid it is), but Bo's hard-nose defense continues. He has his teams ready for the grind and they use that defense and toughness to compete each year. NW never has that and I think it's just not BC style. He'd be a better fit back in the Ivy or maybe a Pac-12 type league
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Posted: 2/21/2013 12:13 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
I also believe he has done about as well as can be expected. He also fits well in Evanston and is well-regarded there. That said, I have begun to wonder if he leaves on his own. The Northwestern job has to be one of the most frustrating in the game and that is not solely about financial commitment. That wears on anyone and he has shown that more so this season than in the past. RacineRed wrote: I think Carmody is better than some of the experts on this board believe. And the promise of the new athletic center is going to help with recruiting. Actually, the NW alumni have been fairly pleased at the general direction of the program, understanding that without the loss of at least one key player over the last couple of years, the team would have probably made the dance. Of course, this year has been a nightmare for the team and provides no pragmatic basis for a coaching change, although some on this board, who know far more than I do (or perhaps far less) think he's just not good enough... |
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- Bmoken
- Freshman
- 1912 posts this site
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Posted: 2/21/2013 12:51 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Maybe it's time for an encore appearance in the B1G by Tommy Amaker ... or maybe not?
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Posted: 2/21/2013 1:07 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
redforeman62 wrote: For the sake of comparison take a look at NU coaches history
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northw...tball#section_2
The problem is much bigger than the coach. Same problem UW had until they made a commitment to winning under Shalala/Richter. That history shows me that Northwestern has had many coaches with bad record who were deservedly fired. Carmody holds a similar record and should be fired as well. If we use your argument that "they're not committed to winning"; no coach Northwestern should ever be fired. Secondly, how do you explain Northwestern football? They were awful forever and now they're respectable. They have all the some academic/financial constraints as basketball and are run by the same department. Heck, you can argue that football has it tougher because basketball could theoretically be turned around by 2 really good players. Football takes like 20-25. At some point it comes down to production. That point is at 13 years of losing.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 1:19 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
I like Carmody. I think he's a nice guy and a good basketball coach and I don't think Northwestern could get somebody better if they fired him.
Winning in hoops at Northwestern is tough, though. The majority of top 100 type kids aren't interested in playing ball at a big time academic school with little commitment to hoops. He's also been a little unlucky in the injury department over the years. But his recruiting is starting to pick up. Next season they should be pretty good. Drew Crawford will be back and they have a commitment from one of the better PGs in the nation in Jaren Sina.
Carmody is also in a bind that the Big Ten has been so loaded recently in hoops talent. If he was in the SEC or ACC or Pac 12, it'd be far easier to have a good conference record to go along with what is usually a pretty good OOC resume and get into the tourney. His problem is that his teams have tended to get physically beat up in Big Ten play and struggle to even hit .500 for a conference record.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 1:35 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Carmody seems like a hell of a guy but how important is it to have your Coach loved by the opposing fans? It's not high on my criteria. I don't expect them to string together an NCAA streak like UW has or a top 4 finish streak like Bo has put together but there comes a point when you have to ask yourself if this is the best you can do. I'm fully aware of their history but I don't see it as raising the bar ridiculously high if some guy can come in and finish smack dab in the middle of the B1G and find a way to snag an 11 or 12 seed in the NCAAs. "It's a great day to be great!" Greg Jennings 2/6/11
SNC - D3 Men's Hockey National Champs
WWCND? What Would Chuck Norris Do? |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 2:25 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
mwingb wrote: but there comes a point when you have to ask yourself if this is the best you can do. I think it is the best they can do. Because if he had a little better luck in the past, they probably would have made an NCAA tourney or two. At some point the luck should turn in their favor.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 2:37 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
If NU wants to keep pace with their improved football program they will probably let Carmody go this year or next. He has to be on a pretty hot seat, along with Painter and Tubby Smith in the BIG?.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 2:51 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Painter wouldn't be on the hot seat yet, would he?
I would think Tubby and Carmody would have the two Big Ten hot seats at this point. If I were Northwestern, I'd replace Carmody. They could use the change. If I were Minnesota, assuming they don't have an unexpectedly strong finish, and assuming the university can afford it, I'd go after somebody like Shaka. Or Brad Stevens. Isn't Brad Stevens going to take a bigger job one of these years?
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Posted: 2/21/2013 3:05 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
Minnesota a big job?? Wow, we must have different criteria. Why leave a program like Butler at this point unless you get a job in the upper echelon. Or at least a job in the top half of a big 6 conference. I think MSU, Michigan, Ohio St, WI, Illinois, and Indiana are all better jobs to nab (not that they are open), but he's going to leave that job security for a team like the Goophs. Dont see it for Brad Stevens.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 3:18 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
blockm2 wrote:
mwingb wrote: but there comes a point when you have to ask yourself if this is the best you can do. I think it is the best they can do. Because if he had a little better luck in the past, they probably would have made an NCAA tourney or two. At some point the luck should turn in their favor. So you say that winning 32% of Big Ten games is their ceiling? So let's play devil's advocate and say that Carmody is setting the ceiling. So they fire him and the next guy wins 20%. Is that really much different? They're basically 10th place instead of 9th. My point is that there is no risk in firing Carmody because all you're giving up on is a guy who has proven that he can't win enough to matter. So if the next guy comes in and doesn't win, you're in the same spot.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 3:18 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
imabadger55 wrote: Minnesota a big job?? Wow, we must have different criteria. Why leave a program like Butler at this point unless you get a job in the upper echelon. Or at least a job in the top half of a big 6 conference. I think MSU, Michigan, Ohio St, WI, Illinois, and Indiana are all better jobs to nab (not that they are open), but he's going to leave that job security for a team like the Goophs. Dont see it for Brad Stevens. Yes, I think Minnesota is a big job. Or at least a good coach could make it one, like Bennett and Ryan have done at Wisconsin. |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 3:50 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
How many passes is Northwestern going to give Carmody? Last year was suppose to be there year, but they ended up crapping the bed and missing the tourney. This year injuries are a valid reason. But, at some point Northwestern's AD is going to have to ask, "do we want to try and be competitive in the Big Ten, and is Bill Carmody that guy?". I know they have recruiting challenges, but you mean to tell me there aren't a bunch of kids that wouldn't be excited about getting a great education and playing in the Big Ten, and playing so close to Chicago? It just seems to me that Carmody had his chance, and he did an admirable job but it's time for them to move on, in my opinion.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 5:32 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
I'm curious why? Minnesota's history (since NCAA's tournament formations) includes just 3 official sweet sixteen appearances, 1 elite 8, and a total of 7 (yes 7!) tournament appearances...If you add in their forfeited seasons, 11 seasons in the tourny and a grand total of 4 sweet 16 appearances...Wisconsin has 6 sweet 16s since the turn of the century! And 14 straight tourny trips. So UW's current streak of NCAA tournys is 3 more in total than all of the Gophers combined. I know it's recent, but Butler has more Sweet 16s, elite 8s, final fours, and tourny trips than the Gophers do. Yes coaching against the best is attractive, but why leave a cushy job for one that may see you on the curb in 3 or 4 years. Stevens isn't going anywhere on AD's radar. He should wait for a real marquee program to offer him a job and not try to take over an average-at-best Big 6 program that hasn't been all that kind to a past NCAA champion in Tubby Smith AerialBomb wrote:
imabadger55 wrote: Minnesota a big job?? Wow, we must have different criteria. Why leave a program like Butler at this point unless you get a job in the upper echelon. Or at least a job in the top half of a big 6 conference. I think MSU, Michigan, Ohio St, WI, Illinois, and Indiana are all better jobs to nab (not that they are open), but he's going to leave that job security for a team like the Goophs. Dont see it for Brad Stevens. Yes, I think Minnesota is a big job. Or at least a good coach could make it one, like Bennett and Ryan have done at Wisconsin. |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 5:34 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
EricTheeRed wrote:
blockm2 wrote:
mwingb wrote: but there comes a point when you have to ask yourself if this is the best you can do. I think it is the best they can do. Because if he had a little better luck in the past, they probably would have made an NCAA tourney or two. At some point the luck should turn in their favor. So you say that winning 32% of Big Ten games is their ceiling?
So let's play devil's advocate and say that Carmody is setting the ceiling. So they fire him and the next guy wins 20%. Is that really much different? They're basically 10th place instead of 9th.
My point is that there is no risk in firing Carmody because all you're giving up on is a guy who has proven that he can't win enough to matter. So if the next guy comes in and doesn't win, you're in the same spot. I'm not saying that winning percentage is their ceiling. Never did, never will. But I'm saying I don't think they can get a better coach. If Carmody had a little luck bounce his way the past few years he'd have 1 or 2 NCAA tourney appearances and we'd be hailing him as their greatest coach in school history. I'm saying he has proven to be a very good coach elsewhere and he is meeting or exceeding their historic level of play while having bad luck with injuries and in a super tough conference. And despite all that his recruiting is even picking up. I'd actually be fairly surprised if he DIDN'T get them to an NCAA tourney in the next 4 years. Anybody else they hire would surprise me to get to an NCAA tourney.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:35 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
While I agree they've had bad luck recently, I just have a hard time believing they can't find someone who can make the NCAA tournament without the moon and stars lining up perfectly.
"It's a great day to be great!" Greg Jennings 2/6/11
SNC - D3 Men's Hockey National Champs
WWCND? What Would Chuck Norris Do? |
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Posted: 2/21/2013 6:53 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
Carmody is no Bo Ryan that's for sure. I still have a hard time understanding how he did what he did at Princeton and can't even get to the dance with Northwestern. I know I've said that before, but it really blows my mind. Coaches overachieve all over the country all the time. I seriously just cannot get it.
I will say this though, he took over from a pretty good coach at Princeton that already had the program on the map. They had been to the NCAA's a bunch before Carmody. Carmody went to the NCAA's and had the great teams with the previous coaches recruits. In his final two seasons there he didn't make the NCAA's.
I just can't imagine that they can't find a young energetic coach with something to prove. Hell If I was them I'd find a coach like that or go after Gard. Carmody has coached Northwestern for 13 years, it's time for a change. I think a change for both of them would be good. The athletic department has to get it's sh.it together as well. Northwestern is making boatloads from the conference and there is no reason they can't bring their facilities up to a respectable level.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 7:25 PM
Re: Bill Carmody's future
In 2010 Kevin Coble decided to forgo his senior season. NW finished 20-14. With Shurna, Crawford,Thompson, and Coble ( who almost singlehandedly beat MSU at MSU in 2009) NW would have had a good shot at NCAA's. From what I read online, somehow Carmody and Coble couldn't work out a compromise on a foreign BB tour, or Carmody just couldn't sell Coble on playing basketball in 2010. With all the skills a head coach has to have, negotiation and compromise sometimes count as much as x's and o's. NW fans probably regret this episode; I know I do. Coble was fun to watch. The MSU fans got on him early in the 2009 game about an airball; 30 points later they were lots quieter.
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Posted: 2/21/2013 8:25 PM
RE: Bill Carmody's future
EricTheeRed wrote:
redforeman62 wrote: For the sake of comparison take a look at NU coaches history
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northw...tball#section_2
The problem is much bigger than the coach. Same problem UW had until they made a commitment to winning under Shalala/Richter. That history shows me that Northwestern has had many coaches with bad record who were deservedly fired. Carmody holds a similar record and should be fired as well.
If we use your argument that "they're not committed to winning"; no coach Northwestern should ever be fired.
Secondly, how do you explain Northwestern football? They were awful forever and now they're respectable. They have all the some academic/financial constraints as basketball and are run by the same department. Heck, you can argue that football has it tougher because basketball could theoretically be turned around by 2 really good players. Football takes like 20-25.
At some point it comes down to production. That point is at 13 years of losing. Those were not my points. To summarize. There are legitimate reasons for NU to move on but this would not be a good year to blame Carmody. Changing coaches alone will likely not change NU's fortunes. " Bo Ryan doesn't specialize in either offense or defense, just excellence."
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