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Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
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Posted: 1/23/2013 7:49 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
We can point to the poor free throws, but that's this team all year (although 40%, or whatever, was exceptionally bad). #8. Having Kaminsky could very well have made all the difference; even if he made one of those 3s like at Indiana it could've been enough to spark some confidence, and then there's having his size in there. I actually think we'll be alright against MN and are more likely to win that one...they're not as disciplined nor as defensive, but they are skilled, so I expect it to be pretty close.
Last edited 1/23/2013 7:50 AM by MnTCBadger
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Posted: 1/23/2013 7:49 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Our seniors and point guard play has been brutally inconsistent this year. That is why you can manhandle Illinois and beat Indiana on the road but lose to Virginia and Iowa. Bo's Badgers have had seniors improve or at least maintain their contributions as they become the guys. Berggren and Evans have played worse than they did last year. Bruiser has been limited due to his leg injury and concussion. If they turn it on.....
This team has also been snake bitten by injuries. Obviously the loss of Gasser was huge. Bruiser missed the game at Marquette and now Big Frank has missed two games where depth became an issue. There is no way in hell Evan Anderson or Zach Bohannon should touch the floor in a meaningful game.
Still time for it all to come together. Even if it continues to be up and down, an NCAA berth is in the future.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 8:31 AM
RE: My 10 Things -- MSU
Just about every shot that Evans took last night never got above the rim! Give the ball a fricken' chance and get it above the rim!!!! too often this season, Evans is a microcosm of the entire team, can't shoot a lick, misses free throws And shows no senior leadership. With all of the good defensive things they accomplished, they just piss away the game at the line. Just a waste of effort on the defensive end. --------------------------------------------- --- MUnertl wrote:
That baseline shot by Evans never got above the rim.
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- jakeec
- Sophomore
- 2411 posts this site
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Posted: 1/23/2013 8:40 AM
RE: My 10 Things -- MSU
I will probably get ripped for saying this but I have never been as excited for a Badger play to graduate as I am with Evans. I love that he rebounds and if he realized that was his role it would be great. Bo usually does a great job helping guys see their role on the team but it hasnt worked with Evans and Bo seems overly loyal by keeping him in at the end of games. Evans had negative value to the team and yet he played 34 minutes.
Also, I have been about as big of Berggren fan as there is but last night was brutal. For the first part of the game he and Bruiser kept us in it but it all fell apart at the end. This missed free throws and shot selection down the stretch were Evan's like
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:14 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
ETR-I told you I would come on here so here I am. I agree with you on Ryan Evans, isn't it funny that his go to shot is a fake jab step, pump fake, then line drive it up from 19 feet. He is athletic enough to find another shot, but his ball handling is suspect. what hurt us in the second half was Izzo's adjustment to not double Berggren, that allowed everyone to stay on their own man. Berg needs to step up and beat his man at least a few times to command that double. I wish Bo would run an offensive set to get Brust open. I disagree with Your dekker statement, he was a non factor yesterday he basically caught the ball 30 feet from the basket then passed it right away.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:30 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
uofwmadison wrote: ETR-I told you I would come on here so here I am. I agree with you on Ryan Evans, isn't it funny that his go to shot is a fake jab step, pump fake, then line drive it up from 19 feet. He is athletic enough to find another shot, but his ball handling is suspect. what hurt us in the second half was Izzo's adjustment to not double Berggren, that allowed everyone to stay on their own man. Berg needs to step up and beat his man at least a few times to command that double. I wish Bo would run an offensive set to get Brust open. I disagree with Your dekker statement, he was a non factor yesterday he basically caught the ball 30 feet from the basket then passed it right away. I agree that he did nothing to "deserve" taking the last shot; but I would have given him a chance since everyone else was garbage anyway. I know it's not all the logical, but I was tired of 8 minutes of the same choke jobs on offense. Like I said, what Marshall did was just fine. I think pretty much everyone knew he would miss the free throw. I just reviewed your first 5 posts... it appears you have some clue about how the game is played. 
Last edited 1/23/2013 9:33 AM by EricTheeRed
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:35 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
I had no problem with the play. Should you not expect a pg to make fts? Love that he is getting to the basket. On a side note,can you imagine if Jimmy Jackson had to do this game on the BTN with how bad his son was yesterday?
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:38 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
I only have three things to say: - We're turning the phrase 'senior leadership' into an oxymoron.
- There's never been another Badger that I've yelled 'NO NO NO DON'T SHOOT IT!!!' as much as I do with Evans. I appreciate all the strides he's made in his play over the last 5 years, but his shot selection (which leads directly to his inefficiency) is absolutely brutal.
- The last play, without question, should have been Marshall with the ball and Dekker setting a screen. AKA, exactly what Flowers and Butch did against Texas. They're your two best three point shooters, and one of 'em should get a good look. I know Dekker isn't a monster pick setter, but I assume in his many years of organized hoops, he can set a decent screen and then flare back to the three point line for a shot if they cave on Marshall. Having him sit out the last play was absolutely ridiculous.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:39 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
uofwmadison wrote: ETR-I told you I would come on here so here I am. I agree with you on Ryan Evans, isn't it funny that his go to shot is a fake jab step, pump fake, then line drive it up from 19 feet. He is athletic enough to find another shot, but his ball handling is suspect. what hurt us in the second half was Izzo's adjustment to not double Berggren, that allowed everyone to stay on their own man. Berg needs to step up and beat his man at least a few times to command that double. I wish Bo would run an offensive set to get Brust open. I disagree with Your dekker statement, he was a non factor yesterday he basically caught the ball 30 feet from the basket then passed it right away. Have seen people also complain about Dekker not getting the ball in the post but I didn't see him try to do that either. MSU is strong, long and mobile enough. They make posting and cutting harder than most. Dekker needs to find a way to score against these teams in ways other than 25 foot bombs. Great point on the lack of a double in the second half. MSU could play behind Bergs and not let him into the lane. Bergs didn't have a counter. Not every team is athletic enough to do that.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 9:44 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
3. Regarding the last play, I thought George was wise to take what the defense gave him. In my ideal world we shoot for the win, but they had Brust locked down and George saw some daylight. That’s a move that he has to make and he got the shot up. That being said, I had zero confidence that he would make the free throws. Regarding the attempted second miss… I swear that 80% of “trying to miss” free throws never hit the rim and end up being a turnover. Just tell him to shoot the shot normal and assume he’ll miss. And if he makes it, so be it. 8. Anderson didn’t look totally out of place, but he’s just too slow and indecisive. His defense only involves one “effort” per trip. For instance, if he tries to block a shot; he’s not going to be able to go back and get the rebound. If he leaves his man, he’s not ever going to go back. He’s really still a project. The fact that he played confirms what a debacle the Z-Bo experiment was the other night. We need those 10-12 minutes of Frank desperately.
I agree with everything except, if Marshall makes the 2nd FT the game is over and Anderson looked totally out of place. The only time he touched the ball, he turned it over.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 11:58 AM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
4. Yes of course they practice FT's and as a team probably make 80%, in practice when there arent 17000 rabid fans watching. Yes Its a mental thing, and yes "they need to be better", but how?
9. The only player on this team that has showed any kind of ability to put up a good shot[some of the time] is Brust. Find a way to get the ball in his hands. Yes msu put the clamps on him in the second half, so what, during the timeout figure it out. Yes maybe Dekker, and even the Bruiser who had shown a hot hand in the first half. Find a way to put it their hands.
To give Evans and Jackson the green light has been suicide the last 2 games [losses].
10. IFFFF we only shot 10-12 % better we could have won this game by 10+....we played so well defensively and on the boards this game was ours for the taking. Yes that is truely frustrating!
As for ZBO his head is not in the game hes too busy with other [documented]things that have nothing to do with basketball. He needs to free up space on the roster.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:08 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Ugh.  This game made me sick to my stomach and reminded me of the 2004/05 game against #1 Illinois. By no means did I expect to win but watching a game like is nothing short of infuriating. We did what we needed to do to beat a much better opponent and then effectively 'declined' the win by shooting atrociously from the free throw line. They could have saved themselves a ton of effort and hard work during the game if they had just forfeited the game. Spotting MSU 11+ points is the same thing as forfeiting the game. I can't be upset with Bergren, Jackson, Marshall or Bruiser with the way they played. They played their butts off and took generally good looks that just didn't land. That being said, I can't f*cking wait until Ryan Evans is off this team. I know bashing Evans is the cool thing to do right now but I can't stand it any more. He is absolutely embarrassing to watch out there. Yes, his defense was great but he single handedly lost us this game with his shot selection. I feel like I'm watching Space Jam when they removed all of the NBA players' skills but their bodies looked the same. He has a couple effective (albeit hideous) moves here and there that I have no problem with him using 2-5 times a game but how the F does anyone let him shoot 12 times? How does he not have the awareness to realize he can't hit the broad side of a barn and to stop shooting? People are going to respond and point out how effective he's been in other games...La-dee-frickin-da -- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Building off that, what the heck is Dekker doing out there? He's the most talented player on the court and he's standing out there 5 feet beyond the arch not even looking to involve himself in the offense. Put yourself in a position to actually be a threat (cut to the hoop, post up or at least step within 3 feet of the 3 point line), call for the ball and then make a decisive move when you get it. If they don't give you the ball, go RIP the f*cking ball out of Evans hands.
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- Bucky10
- Walk-On
- 498 posts this site
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:26 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
uofwmadison wrote: ETR-I told you I would come on here so here I am. I agree with you on Ryan Evans, isn't it funny that his go to shot is a fake jab step, pump fake, then line drive it up from 19 feet. He is athletic enough to find another shot, but his ball handling is suspect. what hurt us in the second half was Izzo's adjustment to not double Berggren, that allowed everyone to stay on their own man. Berg needs to step up and beat his man at least a few times to command that double. I wish Bo would run an offensive set to get Brust open. I disagree with Your dekker statement, he was a non factor yesterday he basically caught the ball 30 feet from the basket then passed it right away. I agree that Dekker was not really hunting for his shot last night. I really don't understand it unless he fears the hook. He has the ability to create his own shot but last night he did not seem too interested in even trying. I think that needs to change and change now. There may be some rough stretches but this team desperately needs a player or two or are not only able to create their own shots (and problems for the defense) but also have the courage to do it. I think Dekker and Marshall are those two guys right now. Marshall is starting to get it and show flashes. Dekker needs to follow suit. That will open up looks for guys like Berggren and Brust and hopefully infuse some life and confidence into the offense.
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- Trek55
- Walk-On
- 172 posts this site
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:39 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Would a shock collar help on Evans this late in his career? He goes to do something, zap him? Square up behind the 3 point line, ZAP! Ball fake 1 foot from the basket, ZAP! Would that be cruel and inhumane?
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:41 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
give MSU credit they won at CHA and the KC.
This one stings.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:46 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
MSU came at us again with that same Nix/Appling ball screen off the wing that killed us last year. We improved leaps and bounds defending that play last night (even with Nix moving on his screens....shocker I know). I'm guessing that is the reason GM and TJack were fighting over the screen rather than switching like we usually do.
Did anyone notice after Dekker's charge in the 1st half, ESPN showed him walking back up the floor in front of Berggren. You could see Berggren saying something to him, and Dekker shouted back "I KNOW" without turning around. He seems extremely frustrated and I'm not sure sniping back at a senior is good for the team.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 12:58 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
SaMOKEY wrote: MSU came at us again with that same Nix/Appling ball screen off the wing that killed us last year. We improved leaps and bounds defending that play last night (even with Nix moving on his screens....shocker I know). I'm guessing that is the reason GM and TJack were fighting over the screen rather than switching like we usually do.
Did anyone notice after Dekker's charge in the 1st half, ESPN showed him walking back up the floor in front of Berggren. You could see Berggren saying something to him, and Dekker shouted back "I KNOW" without turning around. He seems extremely frustrated and I'm not sure sniping back at a senior is good for the team. Neither is missing 4 straight fts in the clutch. Or his pathetic to late. Berrgren might want to play better before he tells anyone anything.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:00 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
SaMOKEY wrote: MSU came at us again with that same Nix/Appling ball screen off the wing that killed us last year. We improved leaps and bounds defending that play last night (even with Nix moving on his screens....shocker I know). I'm guessing that is the reason GM and TJack were fighting over the screen rather than switching like we usually do.
Did anyone notice after Dekker's charge in the 1st half, ESPN showed him walking back up the floor in front of Berggren. You could see Berggren saying something to him, and Dekker shouted back "I KNOW" without turning around. He seems extremely frustrated and I'm not sure sniping back at a senior is good for the team. It's extremely competitive, high level ball. It's not rainbows and sunshine. They're allowed to get frustrated. The best teams with the greatest chemistry the world has ever seen will still have moments like that.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:11 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
SaMOKEY wrote: MSU came at us again with that same Nix/Appling ball screen off the wing that killed us last year. We improved leaps and bounds defending that play last night (even with Nix moving on his screens....shocker I know). I'm guessing that is the reason GM and TJack were fighting over the screen rather than switching like we usually do.
Did anyone notice after Dekker's charge in the 1st half, ESPN showed him walking back up the floor in front of Berggren. You could see Berggren saying something to him, and Dekker shouted back "I KNOW" without turning around. He seems extremely frustrated and I'm not sure sniping back at a senior is good for the team. ain't no player on this team has any RIGHT to tell dekks anything!!!! he forgot more about playing the game than any player on the team will ever know. is he suppossed to listen to some senior who is clearly jealous of his skills and the love he gets from the fans ? pssssssst.please!!!
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:11 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Really interesting angle on Anderson's "efforts" ETR. It makes sense.
Haven't seen anyone mention this, but I would like to see more of Jackson posting up small point guards. That was a clear positive from last night.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:17 PM
RE: My 10 Things -- MSU
#12 is #24 Freddie Owens.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:25 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
I said this before and was blown off-- but Dekker is playing the same role as TimmyJ. Stand around and pass the ball "if" you get it. Both had the "talent" in high school, Dekker more ao, but both seem to have lost it in the Bo style of playing. There, said it again.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:40 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Shampoo4U wrote: I said this before and was blown off-- but Dekker is playing the same role as TimmyJ. Stand around and pass the ball "if" you get it. Both had the "talent" in high school, Dekker more ao, but both seem to have lost it in the Bo style of playing. There, said it again. how in gods name do you compare the 2? are you on crack?
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:49 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Shampoo4U wrote: I said this before and was blown off-- but Dekker is playing the same role as TimmyJ. Stand around and pass the ball "if" you get it. Both had the "talent" in high school, Dekker more ao, but both seem to have lost it in the Bo style of playing. There, said it again. I wonder why Bo's style of playing did not seem to damage the playmaking ability of other front court players like Morley, Tucker, Landry and Leuer to name a few that come to mind.
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- jakeec
- Sophomore
- 2411 posts this site
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Posted: 1/23/2013 1:50 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Shampoo4U wrote: I said this before and was blown off-- but Dekker is playing the same role as TimmyJ. Stand around and pass the ball "if" you get it. Both had the "talent" in high school, Dekker more ao, but both seem to have lost it in the Bo style of playing. There, said it again. Dekker has had more double digit scoring games - 10 - than Timmy in his career. I didn't see the game logs for Tims first 2 seasons but his Jr and sr year head a total of 2! Comparing the two is ridiculous
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:00 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Did Dekker score double points last night? Did you all not say he stood out there 30 feet from the basket and passed the ball around? Did Dekker only take 2 shots last night? I certainly must have missed all this greatness last night. I read in all the other threads that he should be shooting more, playing more and not standing around. Gee wasn't that the same thing posters were saying about Timmy J??????? Standing around and passing the ball with his pump fake??? I don't care if Dekker, scored 6000 points six games ago. Brust scored double doubles vs. Eastern Middle Kentucky State. Did he last night?
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:07 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
The only thing Jarmusz and Dekker have in common is that they are white boys from Wisconsin. Don't remember anyone clamoring for more pt for Jarmusz,in fact he was kind of a whipping boy. Bad comparison.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:08 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Buckyfan433 wrote:
I'll take my chances with an 80% FT shooter at the line as opposed to hoisting up a three pointer especially with the way we've shot the ball the last couple of games.
Mathematically I think that would probably be a terrible decision on your part. Let me try to break it down a bit with some made up numbers based on the situation. Chances that an 80% free throw shooter makes both free throws. 64%. Chances that a redshirt freshman makes both free throws at end of a big game, probably a bit lower. Probably 50%. That basically equates to him being a 70% free throw shooter in high pressure situations. That only ties the game. Michigan state still has a chance to win in regulution, but so do the badgers, (such as a steal on the inbounds, making the first free throw and missing the second, getting the rebound and putting it back in, etc, etc)Michigan States chances in regulation are still better though. Say 5% better (basically scoring in the last 4 seconds while not allowing the badgers to score.) So, when you combine the odds that Marshal makes both free throws, Michigan State does not score in regulation and win AND Michigan State does not win in overtime, the odds are pretty low, since he really only has about a 50% chance of even making both free throws and that only gets them to a tie. 50% - 5% chance MSU doesnt win in regulation - 50% chance MSU doesnt in ot. Really only comes out to maybe a 22% to 24% chance of winning. If Sam makes and takes a three in that situation, (he is currently shooting 43% from 3 point range.) I would adjust that down to 33% or so in a late game pressure situation with little time. The badgers would probably have just as good a chance of getting the rebound and tying the game if dekker missed as MSU would have of scoring and winning the game after a made Dekker three pointer so they pretty much cancel each other out. Obviously there are a few other variable ways that either team could win or lose, but they are not likely enough to really affect the chances of either team winning. Based on those numbers, (which I acknowledge are just made up guesstimates) I think a three pointer by Dekker path would give us a better chance of winning than Marshalls path does, around 33% vs 23%
"This is like seeing the Caucasian Harlem Globetrotters against the Washington Generals. " North Carolina State poster after the Badgers beat them by 40.
Last edited 1/23/2013 2:13 PM by freddy4play
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:16 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
Shampoo4U wrote: I said this before and was blown off-- but Dekker is playing the same role as TimmyJ. Stand around and pass the ball "if" you get it. Both had the "talent" in high school, Dekker more ao, but both seem to have lost it in the Bo style of playing. There, said it again. I generally think you know your basketball, but this post is ridiculous. Jarmusz knew he was a role player and that he could stay on the floor by not screwing up. That lead to him being almost ridiculously passive. Dekker is a freshman who is just finding his way. I would also add that it appears that sometimes his fellow forwards are not all that interested in helping him get involved in the offense. Yet he has still shown more in 15 games that Jarmusz did in all 4 years. Dekker had a poor game last night by his standards... Jarmusz probably played 60 games just like that one in his career. Horrible post.
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Posted: 1/23/2013 2:36 PM
Re: My 10 Things -- MSU
On FTs:
I'm not kidding at all when I suggest that maybe nobody on the team should attempt even one FT in practice leading up to Saturday. Then just go about the pregame and game routine normally on Saturday. Sometimes you just have to step away instead of pushing too hard, especially when it's apparent that to a large degree this is a frame-of-mind issue.
As posted above, in a lot of ways, the Badgers did exactly what you'd want a team to do in a whole lot of facets last night, including getting to the line on shooting fouls by being aggressive. My gut tells me that this is a team that needs to have the positive reinforced much more than they need the negatives pointed out. Much as the FT thing is an issue, I don't think that becoming LESS aggressive is an antidote for anything with respect to this group on the offensive end.
As frustrating as the result was, there are good things going on with this team. Piss and moan about personnel if you like, but this is the team that they have. They can still have a nice season, probably nicer than most think. A win on Saturday puts them at 5-2 in the league, and that's where the focus needs to be.
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