NCBadger wrote:

diddlypoo2 wrote: My thoughts exactly.   Unfortunately, can't get overly excited about this commit, or the potential Alex Collins news.

NCBadger wrote:

Hope he ends up at UW but I can see Meyer telling kids OSU has so much to process that they should take the bird in hand and then see how things play out down the road re an OSU offer.  Keeps OSU in it so to speak and could create planning issues for the competition.

From BW's article above:

“As of right now, I won’t be taking any more visits, but I am sure I’ll be hearing from some other schools,” said Wheelwright. “If coaches contact me, I’ll still talk to them but as of right now, I am committed to Wisconsin.”

Good point.  You could definitely read that quote as, "I'm committed to UW, but if OSU comes calling with an offer...things will change."  Having said that, some recruits will decommitt and we'll get other recruits to flip to UW.  Barring another end of season coaching exodus, I think we'll end up fine.

weballin wrote:

NCBadger wrote:

diddlypoo2 wrote: My thoughts exactly.   Unfortunately, can't get overly excited about this commit, or the potential Alex Collins news.

NCBadger wrote:

Hope he ends up at UW but I can see Meyer telling kids OSU has so much to process that they should take the bird in hand and then see how things play out down the road re an OSU offer.  Keeps OSU in it so to speak and could create planning issues for the competition.

From BW's article above:

“As of right now, I won’t be taking any more visits, but I am sure I’ll be hearing from some other schools,” said Wheelwright. “If coaches contact me, I’ll still talk to them but as of right now, I am committed to Wisconsin.”

Good point.  You could definitely read that quote as, "I'm committed to UW, but if OSU comes calling with an offer...things will change."  Having said that, some recruits will decommitt and we'll get other recruits to flip to UW.  Barring another end of season coaching exodus, I think we'll end up fine.

Or MSU.  They're more likely to come after him and he was a fan of theirs growing up.  This is a relatively weak commitment and the staff should continue recruiting other WR's just in case.

"....as of right now....?'  I'd say this spot is still open and past history of these types of things have not worked out well for us.  Sounds like we are just a safety line until something "better" comes along.  There was a post supposedly from his father to the Gopherhole.  Pretty rude if it was really from him.  You don't have to be a gopher fan to wonder what was the reasoning behind it.

If he is being slow played by both MSU and OSU then UW has a decent chance of landing him. OSU doesn't have any WR commits yet, but have at least 5 higher rated WR's they're waiting on. MSU has 1 WR commit and 3 higher rated WR's they're waiting on.

So, how does UW "keep recruiting WR's"? If you offer another and he commits do you pull this offer? Do you take two WR's in a class this small if he wants to sign? Under the current rules, no commitment is final until NSD so there will always be a risk. If you want to go after top talent from out of state you will always run this risk. I will go with "welcome aboard Rob" for now.

This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

His comments make his commitment seem lukewarm.  If I'm a recruiter from a competing school, I'm on the phone to the kid the moment I read those comments.  Under the previous coaching staff, these types of commits frequently didn't end well.  This will be the 1st big test for the new coaches to see if they can hold on to a kid who undoubtedly will continue to be recruited hard by other schools.

Wasn't Dantonio the firm believer in not recruiting kids that had committed to other Big ten schools. 

The infamous gentleman's agreement!

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

DocWrestling wrote: Wasn't Dantonio the firm believer in not recruiting kids that had committed to other Big ten schools. 

The infamous gentleman's agreement!

If I recall, the "agreement" was between Dantonio and Tressel.

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

---------------------------------------------
--- BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

---------------------------------------------

Which of course Wheelright has not said.

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

That is an interesting take. Can you show me where he said as soon as he gets another offer he will de-commit? Because I haven't seen that quote anywhere.

And I see you didn't address the notion of coaches continuing to recruit kids who have committed to other schools.

If fans are going to hold teenagers accountable they need to do the same with adults. If not, they're being hypocrites. 

Best option: realize these commitments are non-binding and the recruiting battle is fought up until signing day, and sometimes after.

potrykus wrote:

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

That is an interesting take. Can you show me where he said as soon as he gets another offer he will de-commit? Because I haven't seen that quote anywhere.

And I see you didn't address the notion of coaches continuing to recruit kids who have committed to other schools.

If fans are going to hold teenagers accountable they need to do the same with adults. If not, they're being hypocrites. 

Best option: realize these commitments are non-binding and the recruiting battle is fought up until signing day, and sometimes after.

Of course he hasn't said it, but I think you'd have to be naive to think an OSU offer wouldn't change matters. It seems like he's taking the spot in a limited class here as a fallback option. If he really wants to be a badger I'd welcome him with open arms, but part of me doesn't feel too great about being used as a fallback. 

I think the best option is to just have a binding commitment. If you want to commit sign the LOI. If you aren't sold, then don't sign until you have to make a choice. If you think you can get better offers than you're getting then play better and wait till they come. If they don't then take the next best option.

And for what its worth, I don't think coaches should go after commits from other schools either. If a guy is committed he's committed. After all that's what the word means.

BuckyBadger63 wrote: And for what its worth, I don't think coaches should go after commits from other schools either. If a guy is committed he's committed. After all that's what the word means.

Then you would be in agreement that the Badgers can't go after the commit to MSU and the commit to N that are in-state players?

asmartcollegefootballfan wrote:

BuckyBadger63 wrote: And for what its worth, I don't think coaches should go after commits from other schools either. If a guy is committed he's committed. After all that's what the word means.

Then you would be in agreement that the Badgers can't go after the commit to MSU and the commit to N that are in-state players?

Correct.

I'm sure the coaches are fully aware they'll need to keep recruiting this kid thru Signing Day.  Regardless of the approach he is taking or the techniques he is using, you can't recruit scared thinking big bad Urb will come in and steal your guy so why bother.  The way to attack a good shot blocker is to take it right to his chest.  Will UW win the majority of head to head battles for Ohio kids against OSU?  Of course not.  It's always been that way and it always will.  Doesn't mean you don't go after kids you really like who you do have a legit chance with.  While they aren't guaranteed to end up with him in the end they have a legit shot and that's what you look for with an ongoing closer's mentality here.

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

That is an interesting take. Can you show me where he said as soon as he gets another offer he will de-commit? Because I haven't seen that quote anywhere.

And I see you didn't address the notion of coaches continuing to recruit kids who have committed to other schools.

If fans are going to hold teenagers accountable they need to do the same with adults. If not, they're being hypocrites. 

Best option: realize these commitments are non-binding and the recruiting battle is fought up until signing day, and sometimes after.

Of course he hasn't said it, but I think you'd have to be naive to think an OSU offer wouldn't change matters. It seems like he's taking the spot in a limited class here as a fallback option. If he really wants to be a badger I'd welcome him with open arms, but part of me doesn't feel too great about being used as a fallback. 

I think the best option is to just have a binding commitment. If you want to commit sign the LOI. If you aren't sold, then don't sign until you have to make a choice. If you think you can get better offers than you're getting then play better and wait till they come. If they don't then take the next best option.

He can't sign the LOI until signing day. He hasn't signed anything. Under the current system, this is the way the recruiting game is played -- by both sides.

potrykus wrote:

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

BuckyBadger63 wrote:

potrykus wrote:

Bendbadgersteve wrote: This kid's comments just kicked the door wide open.  He would appear, like many others, to not really understand what "commitment" means. 

Count me as very uncertain of his conviction.  It justifies staying active and seeking guys that sincerely want to attend Wisoonsin.

No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding. 

If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm?

Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012?

It's one thing to commit and change your mind. It's another to commit and immediately say: if someone else offers, I'm outta here.

That is an interesting take. Can you show me where he said as soon as he gets another offer he will de-commit? Because I haven't seen that quote anywhere.

And I see you didn't address the notion of coaches continuing to recruit kids who have committed to other schools.

If fans are going to hold teenagers accountable they need to do the same with adults. If not, they're being hypocrites. 

Best option: realize these commitments are non-binding and the recruiting battle is fought up until signing day, and sometimes after.

Of course he hasn't said it, but I think you'd have to be naive to think an OSU offer wouldn't change matters. It seems like he's taking the spot in a limited class here as a fallback option. If he really wants to be a badger I'd welcome him with open arms, but part of me doesn't feel too great about being used as a fallback. 

I think the best option is to just have a binding commitment. If you want to commit sign the LOI. If you aren't sold, then don't sign until you have to make a choice. If you think you can get better offers than you're getting then play better and wait till they come. If they don't then take the next best option.

He can't sign the LOI until signing day. He hasn't signed anything. Under the current system, this is the way the recruiting game is played -- by both sides.

I phrased that poorly. I meant the system should be changed to eliminate verbal commitments. 

But I know that's probably not going to happen, so I guess we're stuck with situations like this.

I don't see a WR as a necessity in this class. If BB gets his guy fine if not, there is next season. Of the guys on the depth chart do you see any of these guys transferring?

Abbrederis-4JR 6-2 185, NO
#Doe-2SO 5-8 170, just got there
Willis-2F 6-2 200, just got there
Jordan-2F 6-0 180, just got there
Mason-3SO 6-4 225, injured local kid
Garner-3JR 6-3 204, injured, was in the upper depth part of chart when healthy
Duckworth-4JR 6-0 215, will play, dependable
I Williams-3SO 6-1 200, upper part of depth chart
Fredrick-2F 6-3 220, local kid, injured, may move to another position
Hammond-3SO 6-5 210, moving up the depth chart
Love-1F 6-3 200, new

As the old saying goes.......alls fair in love and war and college football recruiting.

If you were an older and more experienced person, you might throw out the comments Wheelwright made as a intentional subliminal message that could be interpretted as an open invitation for other schools to step up their recruiting efforts.  However, I don't expect a 17 year old would necessarily understand the subtleties of meaning behind his comments.  He may well have meant nothing at all by them.  However, it does seem to reflect a certain lack of enthusiasm about his commitment that can be easily interpretted as a weakness by guys like Meyer & Hoke.

Wispak wrote: As the old saying goes.......alls fair in love and war and college football recruiting.

Disagree, war is much more civilized than love or college football recruiting.

ramajoti wrote: I don't see a WR as a necessity in this class. If BB gets his guy fine if not, there is next season. Of the guys on the depth chart do you see any of these guys transferring?

Abbrederis-4JR 6-2 185, NO
#Doe-2SO 5-8 170, just got there
Willis-2F 6-2 200, just got there
Jordan-2F 6-0 180, just got there
Mason-3SO 6-4 225, injured local kid
Garner-3JR 6-3 204, injured, was in the upper depth part of chart when healthy
Duckworth-4JR 6-0 215, will play, dependable
I Williams-3SO 6-1 200, upper part of depth chart
Fredrick-2F 6-3 220, local kid, injured, may move to another position
Hammond-3SO 6-5 210, moving up the depth chart
Love-1F 6-3 200, new

This.  Well said.

It seems there are two kinds of people on this board. Those who celebrate his commitment and eagerly await the day in February when he makes it official, and those that wait for his decommitment. Would you rather have him not commit? For me I cannot wait to see him in Cardinal and White.

Let's remember that these student athletes are in most cases 17 years old or younger. They are being courted by confident, charismatic and manipulative alpha males who possess sales skills that would make Zig Ziegler jealous. If he does change, best of luck to him and the Badgers will fine without him. For me, I am in the mindset that I will be cheering him and his teammates on from section Y2 in a couple of years.

Sorry but college coaches and players are very different situations - expecting them to behave/be treated differently isn't hypocrisy, it's a fact of life. Same argument came up with the Uthoff deal...but coaches can pick up and leave any time they choose. Just because you repeat a lie often enough doesn't make it true. Just ask Beilein & RichRod - both of whom had to pay about $1.5 million to leave West Virginia & got to Michigan. Coaches contracts have buyouts, severance packages and any number of other clauses negotiated in or out by both parties. Contracts negotiated in a free market. To compare that situation to athletes who - at least above the board - get their school paid for is foolish. Apples & Oranges.

I don't know whether the current system of a non-binding verbal and then a LOI in February is the best approach or not. As a general rule, I find a lot of distasteful and why I don't follow recruiting that closely = but sometimes my passion for the sport spills over into a curiosity to see how the sausage is made.

In any aspect of life, when you add the words "as of right now" to a commitment, you are calling into question the sincerity of the commitment. Split hairs and stipulate that it's non-binding all you want, when you attach strings to a commitment, you're stretching the meaning of the word.

All that said, coaches play games, kids play games that's all a part of the world of college sports. In this case, I do think that his words were not just to reflect the possibility of circumstances changing whereby he'd change his mind, I think it was to make it clear that he was still wide open. Wanting to keep your options open is one thing, advertising it is another. In which case, I don't quite know why you'd bother to make a "commitment" at all?

Finally looks like we'll have a test case for Azzanni to show his mettle. If the accolades about him are true, he'll work is tail off to keep him and we're still in as good of shape as anyone.

Before I read all this pesimistic stuff I felt pretty sure about this kid's commitment. I assume Bret had a long talk with him about future offers, and about what happened last year. I assume he took every precaution against it, because we can't afford to make mistakes with this limited class. Heck, if we worry about it, then every school (Michy, Iowa, MSU) would have to constantly second guess Ohio commitments. "What if the Buckeyes came calling?"  I don't think we all have to do that. Keep working at it, yes. Bt nt everyone is going to be a freaking Buckeye.

I understand the pessimistic folks regarding this commitment because of what happened last year, but keep in mind, there were major extenuating circumstances with the coaching turnover (both here and at OSU). Things are more stable this year, and you'd think recruiting commits would be more stable as well.

I guess we'll see, but I don't any reason to use the last cycle as a barometer of what "normally" happens.

"No, fans don't understand that these are all non-binding, oral commitments. Non-binding..."

Oh!  You mean that signing day actually means something?  Gotcha.  Letter of the law..

"...If you're going to criticize the player for "failure to understand" what commitment means, are you willing to do the same to coaches who continue to recruit players committed to other schools? Hmm...?"

Nope.  See above.  The practical fact of the matter makes clear that it behooves coaches to keep their hat in the ring.  That, of course, would stop were a kid's word as binding as a signature to a LOI that's enforced by the NCAA.  Anybody in sales will tell you that some clients' word is their bond.  Others?  Not so much.

"...Better yet...

Did you cheer for Scott Starks when he returned a fumble for a TD vs Purdue in '04?

Did you enjoy seeing Brad Nortman pin foes inside the 5?

Will you cheer if Melvin Gordon takes one to the house in 2012...?"

Yup, yup and yup.  Point not made.  Coaches won't waste time chasing that which can't be had.  It takes one conversation to close the door...if committed.

travrest wrote: Before I read all this pesimistic stuff I felt pretty sure about this kid's commitment. I assume Bret had a long talk with him about future offers, and about what happened last year. I assume he took every precaution against it, because we can't afford to make mistakes with this limited class. Heck, if we worry about it, then every school (Michy, Iowa, MSU) would have to constantly second guess Ohio commitments. "What if the Buckeyes came calling?"  I don't think we all have to do that. Keep working at it, yes. Bt nt everyone is going to be a freaking Buckeye.

UW has had a great deal of success recruitng Ohio.  Borland, Chambers, Lee Evans, etc., etc.  The difference is, IIRC, the comments made by the guys who stuck where much less ambigious at the time they committed.  I especially recall Borland as being exceptionally thrilled to be a Badger.  Wheelwright may well end up as a Badger too, and I hope he does.  But his comments don't instill a lot of confidence in that.