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Stave's a Statue

Posted: 8/19/2014 1:27 PM

Stave's a Statue 


Forget how good or adequate he's looked in camp - he's been badly injured in both seasons (similar injury) because he gets clobbered in the pocket. 

I'm not sure he makes it past the LSU game this season.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:31 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Actually, running QB's get injured even more.

Stave's issue isn't his mobility, it's his not protecting himself well when he does get hit.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:59 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



WISteeler wrote: Forget how good or adequate he's looked in camp - he's been badly injured in both seasons (similar injury) because he gets clobbered in the pocket. 

I'm not sure he makes it past the LSU game this season.

Who do you want as QB?  McEvoy?

"Players make plays, players win games."

Gary Andersen

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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:00 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



ajmadison wrote: Actually, running QB's get injured even more.

Stave's issue isn't his mobility, it's his not protecting himself well when he does get hit.
I've often thought that he hasn't at times recognized where the pressure was coming from. It's as if he's got blinders on. Maybe that's due in part to staring down his receiver, or the game still a little too fast for him last season.

Last season's injury was just him trying to make a play and get a much needed first down. In retrospect, he should have slid but you can't fault the guy for giving it his best effort to move the flags.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:03 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



ajmadison wrote: Actually, running QB's get injured even more.

Stave's issue isn't his mobility, it's his not protecting himself well when he does get hit.
Were that Stave's issue is protecting himself.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:33 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Let me be clear, I've never gotten too involved in the QB quarrels that go on around here.  If Stave wins the job I, as most, will be his biggest fan.  However, there's something to the "statue" analogy.  I'm not sure if it was the Cap 1 Bowl but I'm pretty sure that on the play he seemed to get hurt, it wasn't so much because a defender hit him that hard as much as he didn't have the body control to fall without hurting himself.  You put any number of average athletes in that situation and I'm pretty sure they will more instinctively find a way buffer the impact and get up right away.
Ecclesiastes 10:2

"It's easier to fool people, than it is to convince them they've been fooled."   Mark Twain
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:44 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



JWE44 wrote: Let me be clear, I've never gotten too involved in the QB quarrels that go on around here.  If Stave wins the job I, as most, will be his biggest fan.  However, there's something to the "statue" analogy.  I'm not sure if it was the Cap 1 Bowl but I'm pretty sure that on the play he seemed to get hurt, it wasn't so much because a defender hit him that hard as much as he didn't have the body control to fall without hurting himself.  You put any number of average athletes in that situation and I'm pretty sure they will more instinctively find a way buffer the impact and get up right away.
He does seem to find a way to fall on his shoulder.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:12 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


He may get injured but this year I will feel more confident in the backup being more of a threat in the air and in running.
 
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:42 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


I think you can put some of the blame on the SC game on him - could've/should've gotten down - though as somebody else mentioned, it was a situation where we needed the first down & he was just playing hard. Still, you could argue that more athleticism might've prevented the hit from being as hard or damaging.

The MSU hit though - it was a broken clavicle. Gholston had both arms wrapped up & drove him to the ground on the shoulder - he really couldn't do anything to soften the blow. It wasn't like he was standing around in the pocket all day or anything either. Put any QB into that position, chances are the same injury happens.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 3:59 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 





---------------------------------------------
--- WISteeler wrote:

Forget how good or adequate he's looked in camp - he's been badly injured in both seasons (similar injury) because he gets clobbered in the pocket. 

I'm not sure he makes it past the LSU game this season.

---------------------------------------------

I'm not here to defend Stave's mobility but remind me again about the play he got clobbered in the pocket against South Carolina on that put him out of the game ( after starting every regular season game )
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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:01 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



WISteeler wrote: Forget how good or adequate he's looked in camp - he's been badly injured in both seasons (similar injury) because he gets clobbered in the pocket. 

I'm not sure he makes it past the LSU game this season.
If he gets hurt then we have a good backup, either way Stave is the best QB and will start and will have a good junior season. A lot of QB's get clobbered against LSU, try to make sense next time. Because he got hurt against MSU trying to run and standing in the pocket you dunce.

Bo Ryan's offense is officially dead and has been figured out by the B1G. The only way he can continue to coach it is if he significantly upgrades the players.-George2k5

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Posted: 8/19/2014 4:34 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


multimed wrote: I think you can put some of the blame on the SC game on him - could've/should've gotten down - though as somebody else mentioned, it was a situation where we needed the first down & he was just playing hard. Still, you could argue that more athleticism might've prevented the hit from being as hard or damaging.

The MSU hit though - it was a broken clavicle. Gholston had both arms wrapped up & drove him to the ground on the shoulder - he really couldn't do anything to soften the blow. It wasn't like he was standing around in the pocket all day or anything either. Put any QB into that position, chances are the same injury happens.

 

Stave got hurt on 1st down vs. SCar.  It wasn't a heady play...he didn't need to get 5 more yards.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:06 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



WISteeler wrote: Forget how good or adequate he's looked in camp - he's been badly injured in both seasons (similar injury) because he gets clobbered in the pocket. 

I'm not sure he makes it past the LSU game this season.
What do you want?   A season ending shoulder injury like B Miller?   Then if Mc goes down we get Houston,
no thanks.   Stave a 2* out of HS has beaten three 4 * QB's for the job the old fashioned way "he earned it".
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Posted: 8/19/2014 5:16 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



Ph3431 wrote: 

Stave got hurt on 1st down vs. SCar.  It wasn't a heady play...he didn't need to get 5 more yards.

I think that's what I said, he should've gotten down. So what if it was on first down - it was late in the third quarter, they needed to move the ball & he took off to pick up some yards & stay ahead of the chains. But universally every has agreed it was bad decision.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:07 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Stave is not a statue, he does move around pretty well in the pocket and does a nice job moving away from pressure for a College QB. Against MSU he went diddy bopping between the guard and tackle, against SC he led with his shoulder when he didn't need to.

I actually think the QB position will be an advantage for Bucky. Their, LSU's, kids are very talented, but very raw and unseasoned.

Last edited 8/19/2014 6:22 PM by Buckylaw14

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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:48 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Why can't Stave perform just a bit better overall and ...
...contend for an all conference spot (especially with BM out)
.... lead the team to some wins vs quality teams (B1G title game)

He has a line back that for the most part protected him very well

He has 2 great running backs

He has some TE options and some good young receivers

I think we may be underselling what is possible if Stave makes a typical soph-junior year progression.

Stave led us right down the field vs ASU and OSU when we needed it. He was fine vs SC until the injury.
If he can stay healthy- it might be a very good year.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 7:15 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


As I have said in the past.  Stave has a very good arm.  He is tall and sounds to be smart in school.   The problem is in a game situation he does not think quickly, throw the ball in good position to this receivers, nor does he look off his receivers.  Two of those items can be coached.   Thinking fast on his feet is an innate ability...either you are born with it or not.   Just my observations.
I think I went to UW.... I have the diploma!!!
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:02 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



Jackster62 wrote: As I have said in the past.  Stave has a very good arm.  He is tall and sounds to be smart in school.   The problem is in a game situation he does not think quickly, throw the ball in good position to this receivers, nor does he look off his receivers.  Two of those items can be coached.   Thinking fast on his feet is an innate ability...either you are born with it or not.   Just my observations.
I think you are saying thinking and reacting, Jackster. Hopefully, knowing the O a bit better, reading Ds a bit better will speed some of that up. What concerns me a bit is Stave missing his security blanket. He had an opportunity to work with Abby for 3 years. Abby's gone now and some of these guys he likely will be throwing to have only been on campus for 3 months.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:42 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



UnknownBadger wrote:
Jackster62 wrote: As I have said in the past.  Stave has a very good arm.  He is tall and sounds to be smart in school.   The problem is in a game situation he does not think quickly, throw the ball in good position to this receivers, nor does he look off his receivers.  Two of those items can be coached.   Thinking fast on his feet is an innate ability...either you are born with it or not.   Just my observations.
I think you are saying thinking and reacting, Jackster. Hopefully, knowing the O a bit better, reading Ds a bit better will speed some of that up. What concerns me a bit is Stave missing his security blanket. He had an opportunity to work with Abby for 3 years. Abby's gone now and some of these guys he likely will be throwing to have only been on campus for 3 months.
I've always believed that 75% of a pass completion is grounded in the work of the QB (those of you who know more about FB may take umbrage with that).  If that's true we may come out this is decent shape.  I know our WRs are unproven but if any of them can run and get open (function well as a committee) and Stave shows he's learned a few things over the years, we may be alright. Agree how nice it would be to have Abby running routes regardless of who is QB.
Ecclesiastes 10:2

"It's easier to fool people, than it is to convince them they've been fooled."   Mark Twain
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:54 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


I guess I misunderstood your meaning of 'it was a situation where we needed a firstdown.'


---------------------------------------------
--- multimed wrote:


Ph3431 wrote: Stave got hurt on 1st down vs. SCar.  It wasn't a heady play...he didn't need to get 5 more yards.

I think that's what I said, he should've gotten down. So what if it was on first down - it was late in the third quarter, they needed to move the ball & he took off to pick up some yards & stay ahead of the chains. But universally every has agreed it was bad decision.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 8/19/2014 9:40 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



Ph3431 wrote: I guess I misunderstood your meaning of 'it was a situation where we needed a firstdown.'


---------------------------------------------
--- multimed wrote:


Ph3431 wrote: Stave got hurt on 1st down vs. SCar.  It wasn't a heady play...he didn't need to get 5 more yards.

I think that's what I said, he should've gotten down. So what if it was on first down - it was late in the third quarter, they needed to move the ball & he took off to pick up some yards & stay ahead of the chains. But universally every has agreed it was bad decision.

---------------------------------------------
Nah - didn't misread, I was wrong on that, just poor memory. But I don't think it takes away from the general idea - it was an important time & he was aggressive &  was willing to sacrifice his body to try & make a play to help his team. Wong decision - bad call to not get down when he clearly could have & should have. But those types of mistakes are a little different - a little more tolerable (at least to me) than others.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 10:47 AM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



crazyatthecamp wrote: Why can't Stave perform just a bit better overall and ...
...contend for an all conference spot (especially with BM out)
.... lead the team to some wins vs quality teams (B1G title game)

He has a line back that for the most part protected him very well

He has 2 great running backs

He has some TE options and some good young receivers

I think we may be underselling what is possible if Stave makes a typical soph-junior year progression.

Stave led us right down the field vs ASU and OSU when we needed it. He was fine vs SC until the injury.
If he can stay healthy- it might be a very good year.
1st it should be promising young receivers.
2nd the soph to jr jump should come from coaching, it's the first time he has the same offense for 2 years.
That I believe will be the biggest difference maker.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 11:27 AM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


This reminds me of the Tolzien/Phillips discussion back before Tolzien was the starter. There are some who always favor the running QB's. Even in the pro's.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 12:22 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



UnknownBadger wrote:
ajmadison wrote: Actually, running QB's get injured even more.

Stave's issue isn't his mobility, it's his not protecting himself well when he does get hit.
I've often thought that he hasn't at times recognized where the pressure was coming from. It's as if he's got blinders on. Maybe that's due in part to staring down his receiver, or the game still a little too fast for him last season.

Last season's injury was just him trying to make a play and get a much needed first down. In retrospect, he should have slid but you can't fault the guy for giving it his best effort to move the flags.
Nobody is saying that he isn't giving his best effort.  What is recognized is that his best effort is inadequate (and he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes that are repeated ad nauseum), especially  since he has very good talent around him and they are short changed because of his deficiencies.  Last season, the only improvement he showed from his prior season is that he moved forward in the pocket when pressured, but did not improve his accuracy, his ability to quickly read his pass progressions and find the open receiver, or to stop staring down the receiver he was determined to pass to which allowed the defensive backfield to cover well.  He also numerous times double pumped to the same receiver, which causes the defending cover to easily be on the receiver for the pass breakup after it came after the second pump.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:00 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Maybe he will be quick and elusive this year.
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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:12 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



UnknownBadger wrote:
I think you are saying thinking and reacting, Jackster. Hopefully, knowing the O a bit better, reading Ds a bit better will speed some of that up. What concerns me a bit is Stave missing his security blanket. He had an opportunity to work with Abby for 3 years. Abby's gone now and some of these guys he likely will be throwing to have only been on campus for 3 months.
I'm not concerned about this whatsoever.   I realize it's counter-intuitive, but the passing game will actually be BETTER this year w/o Abby.  Just go back and watch the 2nd half of last year's NW game (sans Abby), and you'll see why.

“Not everybody is a perfect person in this world. I mean, everyone does ... kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me(A brilliant Buckeye scholar). 

 

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Posted: 8/20/2014 1:27 PM

Re: Stave's a Statue 



Oscoe wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
I think you are saying thinking and reacting, Jackster. Hopefully, knowing the O a bit better, reading Ds a bit better will speed some of that up. What concerns me a bit is Stave missing his security blanket. He had an opportunity to work with Abby for 3 years. Abby's gone now and some of these guys he likely will be throwing to have only been on campus for 3 months.
I'm not concerned about this whatsoever.   I realize it's counter-intuitive, but the passing game will actually be BETTER this year w/o Abby.  Just go back and watch the 2nd half of last year's NW game (sans Abby), and you'll see why.
I'm well aware of what he did in the Northwestern game (as well as a couple two-minute drills).  My concern is more with his unfamiliarity with freshmen receivers and those receivers being inconsistent in their route running. Stave was throwing essentially to three receivers exclusively. Abby, White, and Pedersen (Duckworth too) had been with him for years. He's not going to have quite that luxury.
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Posted: 8/21/2014 7:28 AM

Re: Stave's a Statue 


Besdies Abby last year our WR's were not that good nor were they athletic. This year we are more athletic at wideout, and I think we have guys that can make plays on the outside.

Bo Ryan's offense is officially dead and has been figured out by the B1G. The only way he can continue to coach it is if he significantly upgrades the players.-George2k5

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