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Who...........??

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Posted: 7/12/2014 10:13 AM

Who...........?? 


Inherited the better situation? Bret or Gary Andersen? Or was it something of a wash?

I wasn't born in Wisconsin, but I got here as soon as I could.

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Posted: 7/12/2014 10:33 AM

Re: Who...........?? 



BAJJERFAN wrote: Inherited the better situation? Bret or Gary Andersen? Or was it something of a wash?
Depends on how you define "situation" I think. But overall, it really has to be Bielema. He inherited a team of players he was familiar with, an excellent OC he also knew, a playbook the offense was comfortabl ewith, AND a D he with Alvarez's help put together, a successful team, and the softest schedule in decades.

Last edited 7/13/2014 4:35 PM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 7/12/2014 11:53 AM

Re: Who...........?? 


GA got the better deal.
One HC removed from a legend and replacing a HC that was starting to wear on the boosters.
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Posted: 7/12/2014 12:10 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


Both walked into a good situation.
But BB turned the roster over twice and kept winning.
But it was all because of the OC right!!!!?rolleyes. PC is now sitting on a hot seat at Pitt.
The jury is still deliberating on Andersen and his first staff.
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Posted: 7/12/2014 12:41 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



EDSBS wrote: Both walked into a good situation.
But BB turned the roster over twice and kept winning.
But it was all because of the OC right!!!!?rolleyes. PC is now sitting on a hot seat at Pitt.
The jury is still deliberating on Andersen and his first staff.
It certainly helped, didn't it? What PC is doing or his ability as an HC has nothing to do with what he provided Wisconsin as an OC. Nor does BB turning the roster over twice have to do with the question posed.
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Posted: 7/12/2014 1:07 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


I answered in the first sentence.
The rest was opinion.
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Posted: 7/12/2014 1:17 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


How many draft picks/NFL players did PC have on that O? konz, moffit, Carimi, kendricks, Toon, Abby, ST, RW, Zeitler, JW, ball, Clay, etc.  LOADED

IMO? Good ac, awful recruiter and his big legacy, choking the game plan vs an undersized and VERy thin TCU front 7
PERIOD

Clay only touched the ball 11 times!?eek1disbeliefbanghead and.............. the the game MVP was 15-23 with a mere 210sih yards84 qb rating,bored1bored1bored1

data RARELY lies but known AGENDA cant handle the truth, we all know whyrolleyes
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/...ameId=310012628

Last edited 7/12/2014 1:26 PM by buckyfever1

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Posted: 7/12/2014 1:28 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


So he turned a 2 star qb into a decent college qb in 5 years, right? he did not coach the OL, Wr, Te etc.

Put ST on a bad team and hes average at best, great kid, good fball player but look at that NFL/AA talent,
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Posted: 7/12/2014 3:18 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



buckyfever1 wrote: How many draft picks/NFL players did PC have on that O? konz, moffit, Carimi, kendricks, Toon, Abby, ST, RW, Zeitler, JW, ball, Clay, etc.  LOADED

IMO? Good ac, awful recruiter and his big legacy, choking the game plan vs an undersized and VERy thin TCU front 7
PERIOD

Clay only touched the ball 11 times!?eek1disbeliefbanghead and.............. the the game MVP was 15-23 with a mere 210sih yards84 qb rating,bored1bored1bored1

data RARELY lies but known AGENDA cant handle the truth, we all know whyrolleyes
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/...ameId=310012628
You, I and the Dallas Cowboys disagree. I also disagree that he choked in the TCU game. Sorry. As they say players make plays....... We didn't have enough. In fact, that tremendous OLine pretty much let us down along with one or two more guys I could name and you listed above.

BTW, you still haven't pointed out where, fever. This after three seasons now of asking where in the game the football wizard called fever thinks Chryst screwed up. Clay was essentially no better than Ball who carried it plenty. White, our leading rusher throughout the season, 8 times and just how many of those times was in the second half? The answer, twice for 11 yards. Poor field position cost us that game and players not making plays, not the OC. Get over it.

You are not nearly the OC that Chryst is.

Last edited 7/12/2014 4:07 PM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 7/12/2014 3:40 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



buckyfever1 wrote: So he turned a 2 star qb into a decent college qb in 5 years, right? he did not coach the OL, Wr, Te etc.

Put ST on a bad team and hes average at best, great kid, good fball player but look at that NFL/AA talent,
Yeah, and Savage got drafted after everybody wrote him off too. BTW, he made a couple TEs into pros. Or was it three or four? Gave Calhoun a shot at the big time after Colorado wanted to make him into a WR. But of course that wasn't his doing that was all talent all those guys had.

Last edited 7/12/2014 6:02 PM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 7/13/2014 1:19 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


I would say BB had it easier because of the dynamics of the ig Ten, he caught a perfect storm with top instate players, Barry's system and a weakened Big Ten.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:43 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


GA.....experienced team across the board.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:50 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



ajmadison wrote: I would say BB had it easier because of the dynamics of the ig Ten, he caught a perfect storm with top instate players, Barry's system and a weakened Big Ten.
He could have coasted on momentum for a couple years and maybe he did since the wheels almost came off of the wagon in 2008.

I wasn't born in Wisconsin, but I got here as soon as I could.

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Posted: 7/13/2014 5:58 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


Bielema.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 6:46 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


BB --> 5th yr senior & high quality 3 yr starter @ QB in Stocco, solid D & soft 2006 schedule.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 7:38 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



Fairway2 wrote: GA got the better deal.
One HC removed from a legend and replacing a HC that was starting to wear on the boosters.
In his last game he beat Nebraska by like 70 to go to the Rose Bowl. Boosters were FURIOUS with him!banghead
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Posted: 7/13/2014 8:21 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


From a continuity standpoint Bielema clearly had a stronger working knowledge of the program and came in under far calmer circumstances.  He had a more proven QB, All World LT, better starting TE and talent at OLB and CB though it, like much of the 2006 team was very young.  He also had better specialists which is far too often overlooked.  

Andersen had a far deeper, more talented and more experienced group of RB's, a much better 1st WR (overall, WR for both teams was nothing to write home about), a great middle linebacker  (thought the one in 06 wasn't bad either) and a true freak athlete at safety.  The edge in talent inherited probably goes to Bielema but not by nearly as much as some people want to claim.  Andersen took over a team with much more overall experience but also one not built around the system he wanted to install while Bielema took over a much younger team but one that was recruited for the system he wanted to run.  

From a schedule standpoint, the 2006 team played two very good teams and one good team going 2-1 against them.  The 2013 team played three very good teams and one good team going 0-4 against them.  Andersen had a tougher first year schedule but also failed to beat anyone of note his first year.  

Overall, I give Bielema a slight edge in the situation he inherited based primarily on circumstances of the transition. .
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Posted: 7/13/2014 10:19 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



D3Badger wrote: From a continuity standpoint Bielema clearly had a stronger working knowledge of the program and came in under far calmer circumstances.  He had a more proven QB, All World LT, better starting TE and talent at OLB and CB though it, like much of the 2006 team was very young.  He also had better specialists which is far too often overlooked.  

Andersen had a far deeper, more talented and more experienced group of RB's, a much better 1st WR (overall, WR for both teams was nothing to write home about), a great middle linebacker  (thought the one in 06 wasn't bad either) and a true freak athlete at safety.  The edge in talent inherited probably goes to Bielema but not by nearly as much as some people want to claim.  Andersen took over a team with much more overall experience but also one not built around the system he wanted to install while Bielema took over a much younger team but one that was recruited for the system he wanted to run.  

From a schedule standpoint, the 2006 team played two very good teams and one good team going 2-1 against them.  The 2013 team played three very good teams and one good team going 0-4 against them.  Andersen had a tougher first year schedule but also failed to beat anyone of note his first year.  

Overall, I give Bielema a slight edge in the situation he inherited based primarily on circumstances of the transition. .
That is after the fact, isn't it?
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Posted: 7/13/2014 10:36 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


On top of the roster and program continuity, the schedule was weak in 2006.

The 4 non-conference games were a joke and Michigan (loss) was the only ranked team UW played in the regular season.

Last edited 7/14/2014 5:58 AM by Ph3431

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Posted: 7/14/2014 2:52 AM

Re: Who...........?? 


BB had a number of unknowns coming into the 2006 season.  Both his OLBs were new and basically unknowns.  PJ Hill was starting his first game in college and there virtually no depth behind him.  We also had zero returning experience at WR and TE.  The offensive line at 4 out of 5 positions were at best, average.

Not sure why buckyfever referenced the 2010 Rose Bowl team.  Senility?  The 2006 team beat Arkansas in the bowl game.


Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back - Bruce Lee.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 7:40 AM

Re: Who...........?? 





---------------------------------------------
--- EricTheeRed wrote:


Fairway2 wrote: GA got the better deal.
One HC removed from a legend and replacing a HC that was starting to wear on the boosters.
In his last game he beat Nebraska by like 70 to go to the Rose Bowl. Boosters were FURIOUS with him!banghead

---------------------------------------------

Because boosters only care about the outcome of a single game, right?
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Posted: 7/14/2014 9:39 AM

Re: Who...........?? 


Since there is evidence that supports both arguments so much, I think it is a wash. It is hard for me to speak clearly to one side or the other because it seems that the comparison is apples to oranges.

BB had the advantage of continuity, which translates into continuity for the players, too. You could really see that on the field in BBs first year. It allowed the growth that Alvarez started. However, following Barry would not be an easy task with boosters and fans. The bar was set with some area of growth possible above, but a large area to possibly fall. Also, with Barry as AD, feeling the constant "look over the shoulder" whether it be real or perceived, I would think would be a constant weight to carry, as well. On the flip side, I could see having the ear of Barry's experience each day as a huge positive.

GA came in to a team that had some talent...very similar to BB. The erosion of trust and love for BB made it easier for GA to step in with open arms. His persona, likeability, and energy makes him so easy to trust and root for. However, he comes into a "system" school and has to deal with helping it grow into something new while pleasing the "old guard." (Like myself!) I thought last year was respectable and I love that the Badger brand is now being perceived as being run by a class guy. I just feel like that was getting to be less and less the thought others had of Wisconsin under BB.

I know several players who played under both who all feel that they would much rather play for GA. He is a players coach, and more so, a young college male human being's coach...if that makes sense.

Off subject, but... I first bought season tickets in 1990 when Barry took over. There were 35,000 people at home games. (Parking was so easy..and cheap, no lines in bathrooms, no lines for food, you could lay down and watch the games, tickets were cheap and easy to come by.) I am just LOVING watching the Badgers over this time!!!! Win or lose, games are relevant. I hear the Badgers often mentioned on ESPN, in the polls, etc. I appreciate all of this! I wish more people did on this board. Nasty talk, degrading remarks, etc. DEBATE..fine. We are Ohio State's Michigan of the era I grew up in. I was so envious of how good they always were.  While debating, spend some time enjoying that we are in this picture!  Thanks, Barry!! You were the architect!! (Donna Shalala gets a nod, as well!) Go Badgers!!!
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Posted: 7/14/2014 2:03 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



madbadger wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- EricTheeRed wrote:


Fairway2 wrote: GA got the better deal.
One HC removed from a legend and replacing a HC that was starting to wear on the boosters.
In his last game he beat Nebraska by like 70 to go to the Rose Bowl. Boosters were FURIOUS with him!banghead

---------------------------------------------

Because boosters only care about the outcome of a single game, right?
Nope... they care about the last game.
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Posted: 7/14/2014 2:37 PM

Re: Who...........?? 


I think Bielema had the easiest task and I don't think his and Andersen's first seasons' results are the measure. For Bielema, the job was essentially a gift, he had a very engaged boss, solid player depth, and an offensive genius on staff. Andersen's transition was much more difficult: late hiring, multiple cultural hurdles to overcome quickly, some glaring problems in player depth, and a boss who with age is now inclined to be more hands-off.

Last edited 7/14/2014 2:38 PM by TheNewRed

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Posted: 7/14/2014 2:47 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



EricTheeRed wrote: Nope... they care about the last game.

The boosters must have been pretty pi$$ed the last 4 years, then.

"Players make plays, players win games."

Gary Andersen

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Posted: 7/14/2014 3:04 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



TheNewRed wrote: I think Bielema had the easiest task and I don't think his and Andersen's first seasons' results are the measure. For Bielema, the job was essentially a gift, he had a very engaged boss, solid player depth, and an offensive genius on staff. Andersen's transition was much more difficult: late hiring, multiple cultural hurdles to overcome quickly, some glaring problems in player depth, and a boss who with age is now inclined to be more hands-off.
eekeekeekeek
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Posted: 7/14/2014 3:46 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



EricTheeRed wrote:
madbadger wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- EricTheeRed wrote:


Fairway2 wrote: GA got the better deal.
One HC removed from a legend and replacing a HC that was starting to wear on the boosters.
In his last game he beat Nebraska by like 70 to go to the Rose Bowl. Boosters were FURIOUS with him!banghead

---------------------------------------------

Because boosters only care about the outcome of a single game, right?
Nope... they care about the last game.
Not to the exclusion of all other factors. If that's the argument that you're trying to make I don't know what else to say. He was not popular with some important boosters, despite the fact that the team eviscerated the Cornhuskers in the B1G championship.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 2:06 AM

Re: Who...........?? 





---------------------------------------------
--- TheNewRed wrote:

I think Bielema had the easiest task and I don't think his and Andersen's first seasons' results are the measure. For Bielema, the job was essentially a gift, he had a very engaged boss, solid player depth, and an offensive genius on staff.

---------------------------------------------

The 2006 team had solid player depth? That's laughable! What do you consider as solid depth at QB? WR? OL? DB?


Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back - Bruce Lee.
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Posted: 7/15/2014 7:02 AM

Re: Who...........?? 


BB definitely had a QB advantage.


---------------------------------------------
--- UWRX95 wrote:




---------------------------------------------
--- TheNewRed wrote:

I think Bielema had the easiest task and I don't think his and Andersen's first seasons' results are the measure. For Bielema, the job was essentially a gift, he had a very engaged boss, solid player depth, and an offensive genius on staff.

---------------------------------------------

The 2006 team had solid player depth? That's laughable! What do you consider as solid depth at QB? WR? OL? DB?

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 7/15/2014 6:21 PM

Re: Who...........?? 



Ph3431 wrote: BB definitely had a QB advantage.



Maybe in quality of the starter but not depth. 
The 2006 team had a 2 year returning starter in Stocco and little used Donovan as two deep.  2013 boasts returning starter in Stave, 6th year senior in Phillips, TM who was in brought in to compete for immediate PT and former 4* Bart Houston on the sidelines.

Of course if you want to nitpick one position, let's compare RB shall we?  2006 had freshman PJ Hill, freshman Lance Smith and walk-on Dywon Rowan.  GA had James White, Gordon III and Clement.  Would you say it's a huge advantage to GA?  That's what I define as "solid depth".

What about WR?  In 2006, returning WRs were Luke Swan, Hubbard, Ike Anderson and Xavier "the Savior" Harris.  In 2012, we had Abby, Duckworth, Frederick, Kenzel Doe.  None of the 2006 guys were anywhere near the caliber of Abby.

So let me ask again, what "solid depth" is TheNewRed talking about??????


Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back - Bruce Lee.
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