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attendance problems at Michigan

  • travrest
  • Freshman
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Posted: 6/27/2014 6:53 AM

attendance problems at Michigan 


http://m.thepostgame.com/blog/...ichigan-tickets

Interesting read, to say the least. I always was suspicious about concessions and cell phone reception being the biggest problems in attracting fans. What I got from the article that I agree with are these points:

1) Students want to sit next to their friends. So get them into the game in a timely manner and let them sit where they want.

2)  Too much advertising kills the reason for having scoreboards. They're for scores and highlights. Pay for them a different way.

3)  Early games suck the life out of a football day. It means no meaningful tailgating, especially for those who have a long drive.

4)  You can get easier and cheaper snacks at home, and you can watch better replays. But you can't have the band. Knock off the constant PA promotions and blarring music. Crank up the band- this is college football.

5)  Most long time season ticket holdders at Michigan had no season tickets to any pro sports. This means that people enjoy the traditions, pagentry and uniqueness of the college game.
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  • gold325
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Posted: 6/27/2014 7:44 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Granted, I'm at least two generations removed from the kids in the end-zone, but I just never could buy into the screaming need to wire up the stadium for cell phone use.   That student survey he cites seems to agree.
"There is nothing so invigorating as a resurgent spirit" - a comment by Keith Jackson on the University of Wisconsin's victory, as he signed off his broadcast of the 1994 Rose Bowl
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Posted: 6/27/2014 9:07 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


"Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/27/2014 9:54 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



OlBadger wrote: "Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
This is the same deal in Pro SPorts.

I sit at YAnkees or even jet games, many if not most of the regular patrons are over 40 white guys, often with wives and they sit and cringe with loud RAP and whatever music that makes us want to kill ourselves.

You just know some 30 year old consultants has told them this is what their fans want when its what the players, vendors and young people using other peoples tickets for free want..
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Posted: 6/27/2014 12:42 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



travrest wrote: http://m.thepostgame.com/blog/...ichigan-tickets

Interesting read, to say the least. I always was suspicious about concessions and cell phone reception being the biggest problems in attracting fans. What I got from the article that I agree with are these points:

1) Students want to sit next to their friends. So get them into the game in a timely manner and let them sit where they want.

2)  Too much advertising kills the reason for having scoreboards. They're for scores and highlights. Pay for them a different way.

3)  Early games suck the life out of a football day. It means no meaningful tailgating, especially for those who have a long drive.

4)  You can get easier and cheaper snacks at home, and you can watch better replays. But you can't have the band. Knock off the constant PA promotions and blarring music. Crank up the band- this is college football.

5)  Most long time season ticket holders at Michigan had no season tickets to any pro sports. This means that people enjoy the traditions, pagentry and uniqueness of the college game.
Good list.  I've read that Michigan charges its students over $300 / year and Alabama about $60.  That has to make a huge difference.  

I wonder what effects the police state treatment of students has on the overall atmosphere at Camp Randall.

11 AM games need to be limited to one or two per season.

**

It takes two to miscommunicate effectively.
-turomon

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Posted: 6/27/2014 1:05 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



ajmadison wrote:
OlBadger wrote: "Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
This is the same deal in Pro SPorts.

I sit at YAnkees or even jet games, many if not most of the regular patrons are over 40 white guys, often with wives and they sit and cringe with loud RAP and whatever music that makes us want to kill ourselves.

You just know some 30 year old consultants has told them this is what their fans want when its what the players, vendors and young people using other peoples tickets for free want..
I can wholeheartedly agree that RAP is not music.rolleyestongue
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Posted: 6/27/2014 1:09 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Seems like the music your complaining about is what is getting the most plays on the radio station and most sales/downloads.

It's popular, hit music.

---------------------------------------------
--- ajmadison wrote:


OlBadger wrote: "Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
This is the same deal in Pro SPorts.

I sit at YAnkees or even jet games, many if not most of the regular patrons are over 40 white guys, often with wives and they sit and cringe with loud RAP and whatever music that makes us want to kill ourselves.

You just know some 30 year old consultants has told them this is what their fans want when its what the players, vendors and young people using other peoples tickets for free want..

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 6/27/2014 1:10 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


And yet, 'Jump Around' is the most popular in-game song at CR.


---------------------------------------------
--- BadRick wrote:


ajmadison wrote:
OlBadger wrote: "Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
This is the same deal in Pro SPorts.

I sit at YAnkees or even jet games, many if not most of the regular patrons are over 40 white guys, often with wives and they sit and cringe with loud RAP and whatever music that makes us want to kill ourselves.

You just know some 30 year old consultants has told them this is what their fans want when its what the players, vendors and young people using other peoples tickets for free want..
I can wholeheartedly agree that RAP is not music.rolleyestongue

---------------------------------------------
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  • travrest
  • Freshman
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Posted: 6/27/2014 4:37 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


I'll say that if the PA played these four songs (plus Jump Around) at four specific times during the game, the students would absolutely look forward to it and get into it: Sweet Caroline, Brown Eyed Girl, Build Me Up Buttercup, Ring of Fire. Do it over and over again at the same general time during the game, and everyone would look forward to it.

Other than that (or some more popular sing along type song) it's the time for the BAND. Get the lead out, ML!! Get the lead out!
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Posted: 6/27/2014 5:56 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



travrest wrote: I'll say that if the PA played these four songs (plus Jump Around) at four specific times during the game, the students would absolutely look forward to it and get into it: Sweet Caroline, Brown Eyed Girl, Build Me Up Buttercup, Ring of Fire. Do it over and over again at the same general time during the game, and everyone would look forward to it.

Other than that (or some more popular sing along type song) it's the time for the BAND. Get the lead out, ML!! Get the lead out!
You mean time for the band to get some new tunes/moves?
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Posted: 6/27/2014 7:07 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Ring of Fire seems like an odd choice to me.

Now with wifi, perhaps they can let the fans pick a song or two every game. I appreciate that it doesn't feel like some out of touch 70-year old is picking the music. Decent variety.


---------------------------------------------
--- travrest wrote:

I'll say that if the PA played these four songs (plus Jump Around) at four specific times during the game, the students would absolutely look forward to it and get into it: Sweet Caroline, Brown Eyed Girl, Build Me Up Buttercup, Ring of Fire. Do it over and over again at the same general time during the game, and everyone would look forward to it.

Other than that (or some more popular sing along type song) it's the time for the BAND. Get the lead out, ML!! Get the lead out!

---------------------------------------------

Last edited 6/27/2014 7:18 PM by Ph3431

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Posted: 6/27/2014 10:23 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino is right.  Rap music is ruining everything.  Now please get off his lawn.
Ph3431 wrote: Seems like the music your complaining about is what is getting the most plays on the radio station and most sales/downloads.

It's popular, hit music.

---------------------------------------------
--- ajmadison wrote:


OlBadger wrote: "Athletic directors need to remember the people in the stands are not customers. They're believers."

Unfortunately, far too many institutions that serve a public purpose have been influenced by business consultants to regard their patrons as "customers" rather than, as in this case, believers, or more broadly citizens. Once you decide that everything is a commercial enterprise, you invite being judged against other commercial options. That's self-defeating in most cases.
This is the same deal in Pro SPorts.

I sit at YAnkees or even jet games, many if not most of the regular patrons are over 40 white guys, often with wives and they sit and cringe with loud RAP and whatever music that makes us want to kill ourselves.

You just know some 30 year old consultants has told them this is what their fans want when its what the players, vendors and young people using other peoples tickets for free want..

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 6/27/2014 11:12 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Several years ago, Michigan sold 22,000 student tickets. Since they dropped to 19,000, 14,000 and this year 13,000. On various Michy outlets, there is ample handringing about broader ticket sales, with much speculation that, should the team continue to look, early on, as it has the last couple of years, attendance will fall under 100,000, which is a kind of "lowwater" benchmark in AA. Their problems reflect performance. That is why both Hoke and AD Brandon are on the hot seat.I do not expect either to survive the current season.
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Posted: 6/27/2014 11:24 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



CardinalWhite wrote:

That is why both Hoke and AD Brandon are on the hot seat.I do not expect either to survive the current season.


Les Miles?
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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  • travrest
  • Freshman
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Posted: 6/28/2014 6:52 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Replacing Ring of Fire with a more up to date song would be fine, just as long as people can sing along with it.

Yes, the band needs some new tunes and moves- they haven't changed in 40 years. But above all, they need to play and play and play..

That athletic directors need to realize that college football stadiums are filled with believers and not customers is remarkably true. Customers go to Brewer's games. College venues have a heart and soul component to them. Its not something you can sell to customers with scoreboards full of ads, or piped in music that you can listen to in the car and at pro events. It is something that simple exists as you see the home colors, the band, the flags, the cheerleaders, and listen to the school songs being played. You can't duplicate the feeling at home or in a bar.

Having some of the artificial stuff is good (large scoreboards, wi-fi reception). But concentrate more on the school spirit stuff, and the believers will be much happier.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 7:35 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Interesting article and I tend to agree with most of the original poster's thoughts and others made so far.  
The current student situation at UW is silly.  Marching the students in like convicted felons and filling rows is a little demeaning.  Either go back to assigned seats and treat them like adults, or let them sit where they want.  If you assign seats or let them spread out, that whole "half the student section looks empty at kick-off" won't be as bad.   Today, kids who want to sit in groups wait for the stragglers before they go in.  If the stragglers can join them later (like in my day) then there's no reason to wait outside the stadium.  It also spreads out the empty seats and creates a better "visual" - by far.

Early games do suck the life out of the day.  Play one per season - max.  Tell the TV folks to work around it.  Most of the games should start between 1pm and 3pm with a night game thrown in for good measure.

Lack of amenities like cell phone reception and concessions don't keep people away, BUT, treating your guests well never hurts when you ask them for money.  I don't discount those things entirely.  Providing good food and ever important cell connection shows you care about your fellow believers.

Using the scoreboards to raise some money isn't the worst thing, but geez, does it have to be this much.  Give the fans in the stands something they can't get at home - Badger history . . . memories.  Run more video of past games and events from Badger history.  Rekindle memories for the true believers and give the newest fans some history and context - doesn't have to be just sports either.  Build the Badger tradition.  It'll sell more season tickets than another Charter Cable add.
"It's a great day to be great."  Feb. 6, 2011
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Posted: 6/28/2014 10:18 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


The game day atmosphere at Camp Randall is just fine, thank you. How about sharing that with some opponents worthy of it?

The band can do handstands, the AD can hire the world's top DJs, and the students could be moved to the suites with open bars, and it would make little difference. Attendance will be just fine if the home schedule is competitive and attractive. A terrible home slate, neutral site games, and the shifting sands of realignment with made-for-tv divisions presents a less than attractive product. No Michigan No. OSU. No MSU. No PSU. It is a miserable season when our only home game of note is Nebraska, a school we have almost zero history with and which hasn't won a conference championship in football this century. Every move made of any importance by the AD (and Wisconsin is far from alone in this), has been a poke in the eye for fans.  What's happening at Michigan (and Iowa to some extent) can easily happen at Wisconsin.  Very easily.

Last edited 6/28/2014 10:24 AM by TheNewRed

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Posted: 6/28/2014 11:04 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



TheNewRed wrote: The game day atmosphere at Camp Randall is just fine, thank you. How about sharing that with some opponents worthy of it?



You know, that's what people used to complain about when they saw the woe-begotten Badgers on their schedules. If you really want a better schedule, hope that the weak sisters of the Conference (Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, etc.) improve a lot, and soon. Anyway, a few years from now we have a home schedule that includes Virginia Tech, Michigan, Michigan State, and Iowa.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 12:08 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



OlBadger wrote:
TheNewRed wrote: The game day atmosphere at Camp Randall is just fine, thank you. How about sharing that with some opponents worthy of it?



You know, that's what people used to complain about when they saw the woe-begotten Badgers on their schedules. If you really want a better schedule, hope that the weak sisters of the Conference (Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, etc.) improve a lot, and soon. Anyway, a few years from now we have a home schedule that includes Virginia Tech, Michigan, Michigan State, and Iowa.
You say this and yet no one has been more excited than you for the addition of two more conference bottom-dwellers who do nothing to improve the already bad on-field product in the B1G.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 12:36 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


"You say this and yet no one has been more excited than you for the addition of two more conference bottom-dwellers who do nothing to improve the already bad on-field product in the B1G."

Apples and oranges. I'm excited for the two new members because it means that for the first time in 30 years I'm living in a Big Ten area. That means more coverage in our local media, more talk about the B1G in my coffee shop, and--most important--more opportunities to see the Badgers play live. What's not to like about that?

As for the football quality: of course RU and UMD would need to be a lot stronger to compete with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU. But that also applies to IU, and in our division, PU, UI, UMN, and NU. The increased revenue from expansion should help these programs do the facilities upgrades and investments in recruiting and coaches' salaries that will make the Conference more competitive. Let's hope all these schools do it.
 
These ARE the Good Old Days.

Last edited 6/28/2014 12:37 PM by OlBadger

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Posted: 6/28/2014 1:30 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


I'm sorry, this thread is over. 

You can never go wrong with Johnny Cash. biggrin

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 3:02 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


Don't get me wrong...I'm a big JC fan. But Ring of Fire didn't match the others on the list in terms of current CR classics....and I'm not sure it's a real 'pump up the crowd' song.


---------------------------------------------
--- multimed wrote:

I'm sorry, this thread is over. 

You can never go wrong with Johnny Cash. biggrin

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 6/28/2014 3:02 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



multimed wrote: I'm sorry, this thread is over. 

You can never go wrong with Johnny Cash. biggrin
Personally, when I think Ring of Fire I think hockey games, not football.  But it works for both.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 3:12 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



TheNewRed wrote: The game day atmosphere at Camp Randall is just fine, thank you. How about sharing that with some opponents worthy of it?

The band can do handstands, the AD can hire the world's top DJs, and the students could be moved to the suites with open bars, and it would make little difference. Attendance will be just fine if the home schedule is competitive and attractive. A terrible home slate, neutral site games, and the shifting sands of realignment with made-for-tv divisions presents a less than attractive product. No Michigan No. OSU. No MSU. No PSU. It is a miserable season when our only home game of note is Nebraska, a school we have almost zero history with and which hasn't won a conference championship in football this century. Every move made of any importance by the AD (and Wisconsin is far from alone in this), has been a poke in the eye for fans.  What's happening at Michigan (and Iowa to some extent) can easily happen at Wisconsin.  Very easily.
It's a toss up as to which two teams have the easiest conference schedule but 3 of them are in the west. The two toughest in the east and those two teams are going to get buried. Hope somebody shows up for the Maryland vs Rutgers game.

Last edited 6/28/2014 3:15 PM by UnknownBadger

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  • travrest
  • Freshman
  • 1444 posts this site

Posted: 6/28/2014 5:37 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



GullrockGeorge wrote: Interesting article and I tend to agree with most of the original poster's thoughts and others made so far.  
The current student situation at UW is silly.  Marching the students in like convicted felons and filling rows is a little demeaning.  Either go back to assigned seats and treat them like adults, or let them sit where they want.  If you assign seats or let them spread out, that whole "half the student section looks empty at kick-off" won't be as bad.   Today, kids who want to sit in groups wait for the stragglers before they go in.  If the stragglers can join them later (like in my day) then there's no reason to wait outside the stadium.  It also spreads out the empty seats and creates a better "visual" - by far.

Early games do suck the life out of the day.  Play one per season - max.  Tell the TV folks to work around it.  Most of the games should start between 1pm and 3pm with a night game thrown in for good measure.

Lack of amenities like cell phone reception and concessions don't keep people away, BUT, treating your guests well never hurts when you ask them for money.  I don't discount those things entirely.  Providing good food and ever important cell connection shows you care about your fellow believers.

Using the scoreboards to raise some money isn't the worst thing, but geez, does it have to be this much.  Give the fans in the stands something they can't get at home - Badger history . . . memories.  Run more video of past games and events from Badger history.  Rekindle memories for the true believers and give the newest fans some history and context - doesn't have to be just sports either.  Build the Badger tradition.  It'll sell more season tickets than another Charter Cable add.
Thank you. You get it.
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  • travrest
  • Freshman
  • 1444 posts this site

Posted: 6/28/2014 5:49 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



TheNewRed wrote: The game day atmosphere at Camp Randall is just fine, thank you. How about sharing that with some opponents worthy of it?

The band can do handstands, the AD can hire the world's top DJs, and the students could be moved to the suites with open bars, and it would make little difference. Attendance will be just fine if the home schedule is competitive and attractive. A terrible home slate, neutral site games, and the shifting sands of realignment with made-for-tv divisions presents a less than attractive product. No Michigan No. OSU. No MSU. No PSU. It is a miserable season when our only home game of note is Nebraska, a school we have almost zero history with and which hasn't won a conference championship in football this century. Every move made of any importance by the AD (and Wisconsin is far from alone in this), has been a poke in the eye for fans.  What's happening at Michigan (and Iowa to some extent) can easily happen at Wisconsin.  Very easily.

You are correct, my friend, but only to an extent. A poor schedule without the likes of Michigan and Ohio State sure hurts.

On the other hand, what if the Packer's schedule included the Bengels, the Jaguars, the Chargers, the Bengels etc? Would ticket sales go down? Of course not.

UW has to reach beyond the immediate schedule. It has to appeal to the inbread  loyalty of Badgers everywhere, rergardless of the present schedule. That means tradition, bands etc..

The "poke in the eye" with lesser schedules doesn't seem to hurt the Packers. I would agree that is hurts UW in the short term, but it also means that the Badgers have developed a rather shallow and less than deeply seated fan base, as opposed to our NFL counterparts. An NFL fan base does not do well competing for fans in Ann Arbor or Columbus, but actually gets overwhelmed by  them. We here in Wisconsin, the supposed  Badger State, its a bit different. The Badgers get overwhelmed.

Last edited 6/29/2014 6:26 AM by travrest

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Posted: 6/28/2014 7:48 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 


It has yet to be mentioned the huge role the internet has played.

In the past, if you wanted to go to a game you had to get season tickets, buy single tickets before the season, or go to the stadium and hope for finding scalpers at decent rates.  This made a lot of people buy tickets early.

Now fans can get tickets to any game very easily granted at a varied price.  They can wait and see if it is a big game, wait and see if the weather is good, wait and see what their schedule is that weekend, wait and see what the game time is.

This upcoming year you could easily get better seats to every game much cheaper than buying season tickets and paying seat license fee.

Still not sure why I am one of the bozo loyalists buying season tickets and feeling sold out by the athletic dept.

When ticket sites first became popular more season tickets were sold because now season ticket holders had a way to get rid of tickets they could not use.  Now the internet ticket marketplace is so saturated and demand is low that sellers are taking losses at a much higher percentage at the same time the internet sites are charging more for their "service"
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Posted: 6/28/2014 8:01 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



travrest wrote:

That it hurts the Badgers means that we have developed a rather shallow and less then deeply seated fan base, as opposed to our NFL counterparts.


Wisconsin's per game attendance has been in a very narrow range for years, regardless of schedule. Since the renovations were completed in 2006, attendance has ranged from78,911 to 81,747, or 98 to 102 percent of capacity. This is pretty much random error. Let's not talk ourselves into a crisis that doesn't exist. Despite the apparent unattractiveness of this year's home schedule, student tickets sold out within 55 minutes, and season ticket renewals were over 95 percent, slightly above last year's level. Wisconsin has one of the strongest fan bases in all of CFB.

By way of contrast, since 2005, Purdue's average attendance has fallen from 62,996 to as low as 43,588 in 2012. It was up a bit to 48,953 last year, mostly because of a near-sellout against Notre Dame and a lot of visiting fans from OSU. We are not in that boat by any stretch.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/28/2014 11:29 PM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



OlBadger wrote:
Wisconsin's per game attendance has been in a very narrow range for years, regardless of schedule.

By way of contrast, since 2005, Purdue's average attendance has fallen from 62,996 to as low as 43,588 in 2012.
The difference?  Just win, baby.
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Posted: 6/29/2014 8:26 AM

Re: attendance problems at Michigan 



komacki wrote:
OlBadger wrote:
Wisconsin's per game attendance has been in a very narrow range for years, regardless of schedule.

By way of contrast, since 2005, Purdue's average attendance has fallen from 62,996 to as low as 43,588 in 2012.
The difference?  Just win, baby.
And don't weak schedules help to assure just that very thing?

In contrast, I wonder how many Packer fans really give a rat's ass about strength of schedule?

I wasn't born in Wisconsin, but I got here as soon as I could.

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