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Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten

Posted: 6/20/2014 5:10 PM

Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


"The head of the Big Ten painted a dire picture Friday of what college sports would look like if players were paid. He said his conference likely would cease to exist and the Rose Bowl probably would not be played. Jim Delany said the idea of paying players goes against the entire college experience and he couldn't see league members agreeing to it. If some did, he said, they likely would be kicked out of the conference because the move would create an imbalance among schools that could not be resolved. The longtime commissioner said it also would bring about the end of the Rose Bowl as a traditional New Year's Day game between Big Ten and Pac-12 teams."

http://espn.go.com/college-spo...d-obannon-trial

I don't think that's the likely outcome, but it could well be that the B1G would decide to operate its varsity sports as club sports, effectively ending scholarships. It may seem unlikely, but it's not impossible.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/20/2014 10:16 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


Certainly there are good arguments that can be made against paying the student athletes. That sort of hyperbole only serves to undermine them. 

I probably tend to defend Delany more that most - but give me a break on the "end of the conference" garbage.

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 6:38 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


Drama Queen. Every single move Delany has made is an attempt to make more money on the backs of student athletes. He's been wildly successful in doing so thus far. The Big Ten just open an office in NYC of all places. That can't be cheap. Close that down, take a pay cut yourself (he makes ~3 million dollars a year), cut the Big Ten marketing budget, and cap coaches salaries if need be. The league wouldn't collapse if they had to share the wealth with the people directly responsible for making it.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 8:06 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


Pay for play may not end the conference, but it would end my paying for season tickets!!
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Posted: 6/21/2014 8:53 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



OlBadger wrote: "The head of the Big Ten painted a dire picture Friday of what college sports would look like if players were paid. He said his conference likely would cease to exist and the Rose Bowl probably would not be played. Jim Delany said the idea of paying players goes against the entire college experience and he couldn't see league members agreeing to it. If some did, he said, they likely would be kicked out of the conference because the move would create an imbalance among schools that could not be resolved. The longtime commissioner said it also would bring about the end of the Rose Bowl as a traditional New Year's Day game between Big Ten and Pac-12 teams."

http://espn.go.com/college-spo...d-obannon-trial

I don't think that's the likely outcome, but it could well be that the B1G would decide to operate its varsity sports as club sports, effectively ending scholarships. It may seem unlikely, but it's not impossible.
I posted this possibility some time ago, OB. OBannon, Colter, and their lawyers have been playing with fire. They may win but thousands would eventually lose each year.

BTW, I personally do not believe the University of Wisconsin would support paying a few of its athletes and not all of them. It would be in the vanguard of those dropping the sport.

Last edited 6/21/2014 9:31 AM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:02 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



UnknownBadger wrote:

 

I posted this possibility some time ago, OB. OBannon, Colter, and their lawyers have been playing with fire. They may win but thousands would eventually lose each year.




Exactly! This is all about a few elite athletes whose real problem is that the NFL and NBA are using the NCAA schools as minor leagues. To be fair, this reflects the history of football and basketball, both of which (unlike baseball and hockey) started out on college campuses, with professional leagues coming along decades later. But by now those sports should have developed their own minors. That would solve the problem of unpaid, elite athletes.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:46 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


You characterization is a gross over-simplification of the issue. And, as usual, Delaney has come forth with another doomsday scenario that you and some others clearly have bought into. This is not just about elite athletes, it is about the kids who bust their asses for the universities and play the key roles in bringing in millions per school and then can't afford to take a girl to the movies because the idiotic amateurism rules of the NCAA and its member institutions. Delaney wants you all to believe that a billion-dollar business will go under rather than adapt to the angst of having to provide the true cost of attendance to the athletes who are the basis for that business. In short, it's BS.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 1:59 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


The NCAA runs things as a minor league for professional sports. That's the problem. If they wanted that to change, they'd raise minimum admission standards such that all the players can read and write at a collegiate level. Many of the best players would fail to qualify and the pro leagues would be forced to respond.

They aren't making that move, because they are making so much damn money.

The whole notion of the student athlete, as it pertains to revenue sports, was lost several rape and child sodomy or academic fraud  cover ups ago. It's all about the money. Just admit it and pay these guys.

Last edited 6/21/2014 2:01 PM by TerraceChair

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Posted: 6/21/2014 2:19 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



SoCalBadger wrote: You characterization is a gross over-simplification of the issue. And, as usual, Delaney has come forth with another doomsday scenario that you and some others clearly have bought into. This is not just about elite athletes, it is about the kids who bust their asses for the universities and play the key roles in bringing in millions per school and then can't afford to take a girl to the movies because the idiotic amateurism rules of the NCAA and its member institutions. Delaney wants you all to believe that a billion-dollar business will go under rather than adapt to the angst of having to provide the true cost of attendance to the athletes who are the basis for that business. In short, it's BS.
I posted something well before Delany did. The University of Wisconsin does not need football to survive. They do not need the fans for support.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 2:51 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


There's a long way to go before we get to college athletes being paid as if they were professionals. There are many sensible compromises that give athletes more of the pie without making the Big Ten the football equivalent of the Pacific Coast League. Delaney is trying to scare people with apocalyptic fairy tales. Unfortunately, a few buy the vision.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 3:03 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


If they want to get paid so badly, get those high cost lawyers to pool their money and create a league.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 3:22 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


Well if you paid players and kept coaches salaries where they are then maybe he has a point. Cut head coaches salaries by 50% and you don't have any problems.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 3:52 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



mudcannon wrote: Well if you paid players and kept coaches salaries where they are then maybe he has a point. Cut head coaches salaries by 50% and you don't have any problems.
You going to pay all college athletes? They deserve it as much as the best football players. They work just as hard even if they are not in the most glamorous sports or positions. How's a tackle going to feel blocking for a guy thousand yard rusher and getting little or nothing for it (OBannon's great idea). OR a DT doing the grunt work so the guy rolling in the dough can get back on the field.

These little Lord Fauntleroy's are at the school for a maximum of 5 years. The better ones 3. For it, they get a free education, the cost of which would compare very favorably to any job they could get without a college education. They are fawned over on campus, and treated as "special" while there. They, however, come and go. Their marks blow away quickly and they are by and large forgotten no matter how good they were perceived to be.

The University doesn't need them. It certainly isn't holding onto any money that isn't being stuck back in the sports programs, including football. In reality, it doesn't need athletics at all.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 4:48 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


If anything it would benefit the big conferences especially the conferences with the ability to pay all the athletes like the Big Ten.  It would crush small schools in terms of competition.  You'd never see a Boise State type again.  More interesting is what would happen to sports like baseball, basketball and hockey.  Many small schools are able to not only compete in these sports but succeed.  If they have to go up against Big Ten schools that can pay players you will more than likely see them get pushed out in those sports as well.  I think it would effectively make the power 5 unstoppable in every sport with no other real competition.  I've changed in my thinking in that this wouldn't bother me at all.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 5:56 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


for those that don't want to read the entire article, i'll give you the Cliff Notes version of Delany's testimony.

"all for me, none for you".
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Posted: 6/21/2014 6:47 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


While I don't think the sky would fall if college athlete were paid (the Big Ten would be just fine), I do agree with Delaney that it is a violation of what college is all about.  I also certainly agree that it would be a relatively simple solution to just enforce academic admissions standards on all athletes, offer scholarships based on academic attainment, and up the ante on the NFL and NBA.  Let them develop their own athletes.  College football athletes are not students in many cases, they are NFL wannabes who really do not belong on an academic campus in the first place.   The money machine of college football may be out of control with ridiculous salaries being paid coaches and the absurd facilities toys, but cutting-in the athletes on the take will not change that. 


UnknownBadger wrote:
mudcannon wrote: Well if you paid players and kept coaches salaries where they are then maybe he has a point. Cut head coaches salaries by 50% and you don't have any problems.
You going to pay all college athletes? They deserve it as much as the best football players. They work just as hard even if they are not in the most glamorous sports or positions. How's a tackle going to feel blocking for a guy thousand yard rusher and getting little or nothing for it (OBannon's great idea). OR a DT doing the grunt work so the guy rolling in the dough can get back on the field.

These little Lord Fauntleroy's are at the school for a maximum of 5 years. The better ones 3. For it, they get a free education, the cost of which would compare very favorably to any job they could get without a college education. They are fawned over on campus, and treated as "special" while there. They, however, come and go. Their marks blow away quickly and they are by and large forgotten no matter how good they were perceived to be.

The University doesn't need them. It certainly isn't holding onto any money that isn't being stuck back in the sports programs, including football. In reality, it doesn't need athletics at all.

Last edited 6/21/2014 6:55 PM by TheNewRed

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Posted: 6/21/2014 7:07 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



UnknownBadger wrote:
mudcannon wrote: Well if you paid players and kept coaches salaries where they are then maybe he has a point. Cut head coaches salaries by 50% and you don't have any problems.
You going to pay all college athletes? They deserve it as much as the best football players. 
No they don't. How much revenue does the football team generate? How about women's golf?
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Posted: 6/21/2014 7:29 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



mudcannon wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
mudcannon wrote: Well if you paid players and kept coaches salaries where they are then maybe he has a point. Cut head coaches salaries by 50% and you don't have any problems.
You going to pay all college athletes? They deserve it as much as the best football players. 
No they don't. How much revenue does the football team generate? How about women's golf?
I really don't care how much revenue is brought in by the football team. There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment. The University provides these sports for the benefit of the student-athlete and does so willingly. They are not offered to make you and I happy or to make the student rich.

Furthermore, there is not a single athlete now or ever that has been forced or coerced into this arrangement. OBannon did not need to go to college if he didn't want to. He chose to. That has been the case with every college football player for 100 years. It doesn't necessarily follow that just because the sport has picked up fan interest, that some Universities have taken advantage of to promote other sports, that these student-athletes should be rewarded any more than the total cost of their education. It's their choice, no one is forcing them.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 7:37 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 8:02 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



TerraceChair wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
Once again, I don't give a damn about how the money is generated or how much is generated. The football player's worth to me is no more than the woman golfer's. They are student athlete's that chose Wisconsin to attend for the supposed reason to further their education. If they wish to participate in provided athletics, fine. It's their choice. They both may find it rewarding in the future but not while they are attending college. 

Just because the NFL doesn't want to fund a minor league, or entrepreneurs don't wish to bet on the success of creating their own competitive league shouldn't force colleges to break with the concept of amateurism at their institutions. It is their institutions after all. Not the NCAA's, not the fans', and not the EdOBannon's of the world.
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Posted: 6/21/2014 11:19 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


If  it comes to a mandate to pay the players, the players will have no say in their compensation. The market will not have a say, the universities will not have a say and the NCAA will not have a say. Title IX will determine how revenue is to be awarded as compensation to all student athletes at the respective institutions.

all or nothing folx.

guess what, there isn't enough revenue to go around.

GO HAWKS !
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1022/ncf_g_greene_400.jpg

 

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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:06 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



UnknownBadger wrote:
TerraceChair wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
Once again, I don't give a damn about how the money is generated or how much is generated.
You are obviously not a university president.
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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:29 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


It's nice to be idealistic, but the NCAA jumped the shark on idealism decades ago.

If you honestly believe that the University of Wisconsin (or any other big college sports school) is actually providing most of these guys with a REAL college education as their payment for on-field exploits, I don't know what to say.

If you ever saw the "help" that football players receive, you'd agree that the University is short changing their education. Giving someone passing grades so they can play football and providing an education are not the same thing.

Last edited 6/22/2014 9:37 AM by TerraceChair

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Posted: 6/22/2014 11:24 AM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 


In looking further at what Delaney testified to, it left me wondering if he believes that O'Bannon et al. will prevail and that he (and the Big Ten) need to be playing a longer game with pay for play. What is to say that the Big Ten withdraws from the NCAA and goes it alone, pays a true cost of education to all athletes and enforces some of Delaney's "student quality of life" proposals? With Emmert's testimony showing just how ineffective he (and the NCAA) are at defending against this suit, it makes me wonder if Delaney has already made his mind up that there will be no choice but to leave the NCAA. Unknown's position is the right one and there are very limited ways of getting there due to Title IX.  Who's to say the Big Ten cannot tilt the conversation and reality more toward student and less toward athlete, and still make money.  Certainly fits the original intent of college athletics better.

Last edited 6/22/2014 11:27 AM by TheNewRed

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Posted: 6/22/2014 12:45 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



mudcannon wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
TerraceChair wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
Once again, I don't give a damn about how the money is generated or how much is generated.
You are obviously not a university president.
The university president cares first about academics and he doesn't need football to ensure the student gets a quality education.

Last edited 6/22/2014 1:05 PM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:06 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



UnknownBadger wrote:
mudcannon wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
TerraceChair wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
Once again, I don't give a damn about how the money is generated or how much is generated.
You are obviously not a university president.
The university president cares first about academics and he doesn't need football to afford that.
If all the university president cared about was academics, they would force student athletes to meet the same admission criteria as any student.
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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:10 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



mudcannon wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
mudcannon wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
TerraceChair wrote:
UnknownBadger wrote:
There is no one athlete that should be treated better than another in the University environment.
So you agree, that the current reality of college sports is ridiculous? In the current arrangement, ALL athletes are treated differently in the University environment. I'm sure if you check the average ACT score of a woman golfer or man swimmer vs. a defensive tackle or power forward, you'll see that not all things are created equal. The reason is the money generated by these kids. You can't be so naive to think differently.
Once again, I don't give a damn about how the money is generated or how much is generated.
You are obviously not a university president.
The university president cares first about academics and he doesn't need football to afford that.
If all the university president cared about was academics, they would force student athletes to meet the same admission criteria as any student.
That response is not well thought out, mud. Not well thought out at all.

Last edited 6/22/2014 1:12 PM by UnknownBadger

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Posted: 6/22/2014 3:46 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



SoCalBadger wrote: There's a long way to go before we get to college athletes being paid as if they were professionals. There are many sensible compromises that give athletes more of the pie without making the Big Ten the football equivalent of the Pacific Coast League.


You do realize that the Power 5 conferences have been trying to do just this for years, and that it's the MACs, WACs, SBCs, and MWCs of the world--along with the I-AAs--who have prevented it, right? That's what this whole "autonomy" thing is about.
These ARE the Good Old Days.

Last edited 6/22/2014 3:47 PM by OlBadger

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  • kowitzc
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Posted: 6/22/2014 5:29 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



SoCalBadger wrote: You characterization is a gross over-simplification of the issue. And, as usual, Delaney has come forth with another doomsday scenario that you and some others clearly have bought into. This is not just about elite athletes, it is about the kids who bust their asses for the universities and play the key roles in bringing in millions per school and then can't afford to take a girl to the movies because the idiotic amateurism rules of the NCAA and its member institutions. Delaney wants you all to believe that a billion-dollar business will go under rather than adapt to the angst of having to provide the true cost of attendance to the athletes who are the basis for that business. In short, it's BS.
Exactly. Delany is proving without a doubt that he isa selfish grededy ass who only cares about fattening his wallet. So he spews the doomsday BS. And OB and others are dumb enough to blindly believe the BS.
SRS80 wrote: Arizona outclassing Wisconsin. Better athletes. Bo is losing his cool and so is the team. Zona should be up 10 at least. They will win by a comfortable margin though.

Said during Elite Eight Game UW won 64-63.
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Posted: 6/22/2014 6:03 PM

Re: Delany: Pay for play would end Big Ten 



kowitzc wrote:
SoCalBadger wrote: You characterization is a gross over-simplification of the issue. And, as usual, Delaney has come forth with another doomsday scenario that you and some others clearly have bought into. This is not just about elite athletes, it is about the kids who bust their asses for the universities and play the key roles in bringing in millions per school and then can't afford to take a girl to the movies because the idiotic amateurism rules of the NCAA and its member institutions. Delaney wants you all to believe that a billion-dollar business will go under rather than adapt to the angst of having to provide the true cost of attendance to the athletes who are the basis for that business. In short, it's BS.
Exactly. Delany is proving without a doubt that he isa selfish grededy ass who only cares about fattening his wallet. So he spews the doomsday BS. And OB and others are dumb enough to blindly believe the BS.
No, people have felt this way ever since OBannon started making noise and Colter decided that a scholarship to Northwestern wasn't worth enough. But believe what you want, Kowitzc,

Some of us who are smart enough are quite sure that football is NOT the driving force of Universities today and realize that it won't be tomorrow.

Last edited 6/22/2014 6:20 PM by UnknownBadger

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