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BYU wants in

Posted: 6/6/2014 5:39 PM

BYU wants in 


Back in 2011, the Big XII seemed to be on the verge of adding BYU to help fill its depleted ranks. However, they reached a stumbling block over Sunday play, which is common in that conference. BYU subsequently followed the Notre Dame model of football independence, relying on its world-wide network of co-religionists to make that work. Now, however, they're in a fix not of their own making:

"The ACC and SEC excluded BYU from their power five non-conference scheduling mandate, which could make it difficult for the independent Cougars to fill out their football schedule. Also, if the power-five conferences (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12, SEC) gain autonomy from the NCAA, BYU could get even further left behind."

So Bronco Mendenhall is trying to stir up interest in adding BYU to the XII. But the Austin newspaper is reporting that there's little interest among XII members to expand beyond the current 10 members. They could be frozen out, despite a good history in CFB.

http://espn.go.com/college-foo...byu-love-big-12
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 5:53 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


Can we kick out Rutgers and take BYU? (Not joking)

They are basically polar opposites... low interest in a big market vs. big interest in a small (but growing.... Utah is one of the fastest growing states) market.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 7:14 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



GratefullyRed wrote: Can we kick out Rutgers and take BYU? (Not joking)



Nothing screams "BIG TEN" like a private, religious school west of the Rockies. disbelief
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:40 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote:
GratefullyRed wrote: Can we kick out Rutgers and take BYU? (Not joking)



Nothing screams "BIG TEN" like a private, religious school west of the Rockies. disbelief
Spoken like a true hypocrite.rolleyes
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  • Bmoken
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Posted: 6/6/2014 8:48 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


Lord knows it makes sense to trade the NY metro TV market for Salt Lake City.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 10:58 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



sweatpants wrote:
 
Spoken like a true hypocrite.rolleyes


Huh?
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 2:52 AM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote:
sweatpants wrote:
 
Spoken like a true hypocrite.rolleyes


Huh?
Is he trying to make the argument that "private, religious school west of the Rockies" is equivalent to "not-a-cultural-fit school east of the Appalachians"?

I can't see what else he could be going for.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 11:09 AM

Re: BYU wants in 


I'm surprised the Big 12 wouldn't have more interest honestly.  BYU would be a hell of a lot more valuable than many of their current teams.
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  • kowitzc
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Posted: 6/7/2014 11:35 AM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote:
So Bronco Mendenhall is trying to stir up interest in adding BYU to the XII. But the Austin newspaper is reporting that there's little interest among XII members to expand beyond the current 10 members. They could be frozen out, despite a good history in CFB.

So, the idiots that run the B12 don't want their championship game back then?  They have to be complete idiots to turn down money like that , espeically after they lost it.
SRS80 wrote: Arizona outclassing Wisconsin. Better athletes. Bo is losing his cool and so is the team. Zona should be up 10 at least. They will win by a comfortable margin though.

Said during Elite Eight Game UW won 64-63.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 3:03 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



kowitzc wrote:
OlBadger wrote:
So Bronco Mendenhall is trying to stir up interest in adding BYU to the XII. But the Austin newspaper is reporting that there's little interest among XII members to expand beyond the current 10 members. They could be frozen out, despite a good history in CFB.

So, the idiots that run the B12 don't want their championship game back then?  They have to be complete idiots to turn down money like that , espeically after they lost it.
Does the revenue generated by a conference championship game offset the cost of splitting the pot two more ways? BYU has a respectable following but probably doesn't get the Big XII on that many more television screens and whoever the second team the Big XII would have to add is (Cincinnati?) wouldn't move the needle at all.
Sure...I'll take a look.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 5:26 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


Don't really get the hate against religious private schools. Same thing is always said about Notre Dame

Who cares. BYU would only be annoying because they actually take the Sabbath seriously

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Posted: 6/7/2014 6:49 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


Why not BYU when we have Secular Humanist schools.  I would take BYU over Rutgers any day.  Anything from NJ sucks. Having lived there a 12 long years, I never became a Jerzoid.  But, in fairness, parts of rural NJ were quite nice, if not too accessible to the NYC/Newark crowd.

----
Circus and Games!  Eat cake!  Let the games begin!  Put out that fire first.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 7:14 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


Northwestern is private and though it's not exactly considered "religious" it has affiliation with the Methodists.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 7:55 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



ByTheLightOfTheMoon wrote:

Don't really get the hate against religious private schools.




That wasn't my point. The B1G, with the exception of NU (an original member), is made up of large state universities, most of them flagships. All of them are located in contiguous states. BYU fits none of the above. Given that the B1G is much more than an athletic conference--and it is to a degree unknown in any other conference--it's hard to see how BYU fits.
These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 10:17 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote:
ByTheLightOfTheMoon wrote:

Don't really get the hate against religious private schools.




That wasn't my point. The B1G, with the exception of NU (an original member), is made up of large state universities, most of them flagships. All of them are located in contiguous states. BYU fits none of the above. Given that the B1G is much more than an athletic conference--and it is to a degree unknown in any other conference--it's hard to see how BYU fits.
Oh I'd agree with the whole Utah thing being ridiculous but when that argument is used for why Maryland and Rutgers are better fits than Notre Dame I feel like tearing my hair out. Really though I'd rather have BYU than either of these new schools. Zero excitement outside of Maryland basketball
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Posted: 6/8/2014 8:45 AM

Re: BYU wants in 


OlBadger is correct:
"Nothing screams "BIG TEN" like a private, religious school west of the Rockies"
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Posted: 6/8/2014 2:13 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


BTLOFM wrote: "Oh I'd agree with the whole Utah thing being ridiculous but when that argument is used for why Maryland and Rutgers are better fits than Notre Dame I feel like tearing my hair out."

Your ire is misdirected, then. It was Notre Dame that decided that they didn't fit the B1G, after the Conference twice seemed about to admit them. Even their Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly to join. But then ND's big donors stepped in and stopped that in its tracks. It wasn't a B1G decision, it was ND's. Delany publicly ended pursuit of ND in 2010 this way:

"I think (Notre Dame athletic director) Jack Swarbrick has been consistent from the beginning about their commitment to the Big East, and their commitment to independence" in football.


http://www.startribune.com/spo...s/99781864.html
These ARE the Good Old Days.

Last edited 6/8/2014 2:15 PM by OlBadger

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Posted: 6/8/2014 3:15 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote: BTLOFM wrote: "Oh I'd agree with the whole Utah thing being ridiculous but when that argument is used for why Maryland and Rutgers are better fits than Notre Dame I feel like tearing my hair out."

Your ire is misdirected, then. It was Notre Dame that decided that they didn't fit the B1G, after the Conference twice seemed about to admit them. Even their Faculty Senate voted overwhelmingly to join. But then ND's big donors stepped in and stopped that in its tracks. It wasn't a B1G decision, it was ND's. Delany publicly ended pursuit of ND in 2010 this way:

"I think (Notre Dame athletic director) Jack Swarbrick has been consistent from the beginning about their commitment to the Big East, and their commitment to independence" in football.


http://www.startribune.com/spo...s/99781864.html
It's not misdirected, I didn't say anything about the Big Ten organization. I am talking about fans. It is funny that people still hold their feelings about religion so closely even in modern times and in relation to football.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:36 AM

Re: BYU wants in 


No big time conference is going to take BYU simply because of the Sunday rule.  Just about every sport besides football plays on Sunday.  It would be a scheduling nightmare with no Sundays and no partner in scheduling for the non-revenue sports.

BYU's only chance is the Pac-12 expanding and they lost out big to Utah the last time around with expansion.  Boise St and BYU need to save themselves and beg into the Pac-12. 

These are the types of schools that are going to lose just about everything in the next 10 years by becoming irrelevant in the money and TV game
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  • kowitzc
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Posted: 6/9/2014 11:55 AM

Re: BYU wants in 



DocWrestling wrote: No big time conference is going to take BYU simply because of the Sunday rule.  Just about every sport besides football plays on Sunday.  It would be a scheduling nightmare with no Sundays and no partner in scheduling for the non-revenue sports.
Wrong, and it's what the conferences hide behind in order to shield the REAL reason they don't want BYU. A look back at the B12 basketball schedule shows TWO Sunday games. So, Sunday games aren't even close to an issue. The real reason they don't want BYU is that they don't want to have to play teams that are more mature due to BYU athletes going on their required 1 year Mormon mission.
SRS80 wrote: Arizona outclassing Wisconsin. Better athletes. Bo is losing his cool and so is the team. Zona should be up 10 at least. They will win by a comfortable margin though.

Said during Elite Eight Game UW won 64-63.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 11:56 AM

Re: BYU wants in 


Same Cincinnati and Connecticut. Part of me wonders, if Connecticut had the chance to do it over again, would they still move their football program up to the FBS level? I have to imagine they'd much rather be in the new Big East rather than the American.
DocWrestling wrote: No big time conference is going to take BYU simply because of the Sunday rule.  Just about every sport besides football plays on Sunday.  It would be a scheduling nightmare with no Sundays and no partner in scheduling for the non-revenue sports.

BYU's only chance is the Pac-12 expanding and they lost out big to Utah the last time around with expansion.  Boise St and BYU need to save themselves and beg into the Pac-12. 

These are the types of schools that are going to lose just about everything in the next 10 years by becoming irrelevant in the money and TV game
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Posted: 6/9/2014 12:21 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



Gass3268 wrote: Same Cincinnati and Connecticut. Part of me wonders, if Connecticut had the chance to do it over again, would they still move their football program up to the FBS level? I have to imagine they'd much rather be in the new Big East rather than the American.
DocWrestling wrote: No big time conference is going to take BYU simply because of the Sunday rule.  Just about every sport besides football plays on Sunday.  It would be a scheduling nightmare with no Sundays and no partner in scheduling for the non-revenue sports.

BYU's only chance is the Pac-12 expanding and they lost out big to Utah the last time around with expansion.  Boise St and BYU need to save themselves and beg into the Pac-12. 

These are the types of schools that are going to lose just about everything in the next 10 years by becoming irrelevant in the money and TV game
If the B1G or SEC picks off another ACC team, UConn will be very happy it moved its football program up.  They were almost in the ACC last time, it would be shocking if they didn't get the invite next time.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 1:13 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


"The real reason they don't want BYU is that they don't want to have to play teams that are more mature due to BYU athletes going on their required 1 year Mormon mission."

The missions are two years, not one. (http://www.mormonmissionprep.c...mormon-mission/) But in any case that's not the "real" reason the PAC didn't invite them. The main reasons were: (1) The Mormon Church, which owns BYU outright, largely funded Proposition 8, which outlawed same-sex marriage in CA. That's a hot-button issue on most PAC campuses, so if they had admitted BYU the CEOs would have had a faculty/student revolt on their hands; this was reported widely at the time. (2) BYU is not nearly as good academically as Utah; for example, the Academic Ranking of World Universities has Utah at #85, BYU barely above 400. (http://www.shanghairanking.com...University.html) Contrary to what some think, these membership decisions are about much more than athletics, especially for conferences such as the B1G and PAC.

As for the B12, it was reported widely in 2010 that they tried to work out a way to admit BYU after the PAC's effort to have Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State join along with Colorado broke down. BYU's uncompromising position on Sunday play--even for tournaments--ultimately doomed that effort. As the Deseret News reported:

Sunday Play


This stands out like Gary Patterson in purple at a wedding. Everyone knows BYU will never, under any circumstance, play a game on Sunday, and they won’t join a conference that doesn’t accommodate observance of Sunday as a day of worship. Sure, Baylor and TCU are religious institutions, and they don’t quibble over whether playing games on the Lord’s day is right or wrong. But BYU won’t do it. Nor should it apologize for not doing so.

Sunday may not be an issue to the Big 12 Conference as a collective. But it could be to some of the member schools who see BYU's firm stance as an inconvenience not worth the cost of acquisition. More importantly, it could be an issue to TV partners who would whisper such concerns in the ears of member institutions. Sure, ESPN loves BYU, but that doesn’t mean that Fox, Comcast or whoever might be at the Big 12 TV negotiating table wouldn’t want a contract that offers Sabbath programming that’s not a devotional talk from the Marriott Center.

And, as we’ll discuss later, it’s an issue if the schools want to launch a conference network at some point.

http://www.deseretnews.com/art...nce.html?pg=all

These ARE the Good Old Days.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 1:31 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



kowitzc wrote:
DocWrestling wrote: No big time conference is going to take BYU simply because of the Sunday rule.  Just about every sport besides football plays on Sunday.  It would be a scheduling nightmare with no Sundays and no partner in scheduling for the non-revenue sports.
Wrong, and it's what the conferences hide behind in order to shield the REAL reason they don't want BYU. A look back at the B12 basketball schedule shows TWO Sunday games. So, Sunday games aren't even close to an issue. The real reason they don't want BYU is that they don't want to have to play teams that are more mature due to BYU athletes going on their required 1 year Mormon mission.
Please,  take a little effort and realize that there are many more sports than football and basketball.  Both of those sports could make accomodations easily.  It is all the other non-revenue sports that would create scheduling and travel nightmares if they could not play on Sunday.  Most non-revenue sports live on Sundays including women's basketball.  Without Sundays, student-athletes would miss a ton of class time and money trying to travel to Utah for weekday games.  

Saying they are scared of some older athletes is laughable when nobody else is.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 2:21 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



GratefullyRed wrote: .. Utah is one of the fastest growing states) market.
Really . . . . and how many electoral votes does Utah have?
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Posted: 6/9/2014 3:41 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



DocWrestling wrote: 
Please,  take a little effort and realize that there are many more sports than football and basketball.  Both of those sports could make accomodations easily.  It is all the other non-revenue sports that would create scheduling and travel nightmares if they could not play on Sunday.  Most non-revenue sports live on Sundays including women's basketball.  Without Sundays, student-athletes would miss a ton of class time and money trying to travel to Utah for weekday games.  

Saying they are scared of some older athletes is laughable when nobody else is.
They don't actually allow women to play sports there, do they? tongue

Engage the good posters, ignore the bad, report as inappropriate the problems. Message board rules. Thanks.
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  • kowitzc
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Posted: 6/9/2014 4:06 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



OlBadger wrote: "The real reason they don't want BYU is that they don't want to have to play teams that are more mature due to BYU athletes going on their required 1 year Mormon mission."

The missions are two years, not one. (http://www.mormonmissionprep.c...mormon-mission/) But in any case that's not the "real" reason the PAC didn't invite them. The main reasons were: (1) The Mormon Church, which owns BYU outright, largely funded Proposition 8, which outlawed same-sex marriage in CA. That's a hot-button issue on most PAC campuses, so if they had admitted BYU the CEOs would have had a faculty/student revolt on their hands; this was reported widely at the time. (2) BYU is not nearly as good academically as Utah; for example, the Academic Ranking of World Universities has Utah at #85, BYU barely above 400. (http://www.shanghairanking.com...University.html) Contrary to what some think, these membership decisions are about much more than athletics, especially for conferences such as the B1G and PAC.

As for the B12, it was reported widely in 2010 that they tried to work out a way to admit BYU after the PAC's effort to have Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State join along with Colorado broke down. BYU's uncompromising position on Sunday play--even for tournaments--ultimately doomed that effort. As the Deseret News reported:

Sunday Play


This stands out like Gary Patterson in purple at a wedding. Everyone knows BYU will never, under any circumstance, play a game on Sunday, and they won’t join a conference that doesn’t accommodate observance of Sunday as a day of worship. Sure, Baylor and TCU are religious institutions, and they don’t quibble over whether playing games on the Lord’s day is right or wrong. But BYU won’t do it. Nor should it apologize for not doing so.

Sunday may not be an issue to the Big 12 Conference as a collective. But it could be to some of the member schools who see BYU's firm stance as an inconvenience not worth the cost of acquisition. More importantly, it could be an issue to TV partners who would whisper such concerns in the ears of member institutions. Sure, ESPN loves BYU, but that doesn’t mean that Fox, Comcast or whoever might be at the Big 12 TV negotiating table wouldn’t want a contract that offers Sabbath programming that’s not a devotional talk from the Marriott Center.

And, as we’ll discuss later, it’s an issue if the schools want to launch a conference network at some point.

http://www.deseretnews.com/art...nce.html?pg=all

And as I mentioned, and you continue to ignore, the basketball schedule shoed TWO Sunday games. So, how are Sunday games a problem when they don't schedule them to begin with?
SRS80 wrote: Arizona outclassing Wisconsin. Better athletes. Bo is losing his cool and so is the team. Zona should be up 10 at least. They will win by a comfortable margin though.

Said during Elite Eight Game UW won 64-63.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 5:47 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



kowitzc wrote: And as I mentioned, and you continue to ignore, the basketball schedule shoed TWO Sunday games. So, how are Sunday games a problem when they don't schedule them to begin with?

Doc Wrestling wrote: Please,  take a little effort and realize that there are many more sports than football and basketball.  Both of those sports could make accomodations easily. It is all the other non-revenue sports that would create scheduling and travel nightmares if they could not play on Sunday.  Most non-revenue sports live on Sundays including women's basketball.  Without Sundays, student-athletes would miss a ton of class time and money trying to travel to Utah for weekday games.

QED
These ARE the Good Old Days.

Last edited 6/9/2014 5:49 PM by OlBadger

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Posted: 6/9/2014 5:54 PM

Re: BYU wants in 


So, money & political correctness beat competitiveness & fan interest.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 6:39 PM

Re: BYU wants in 



WarriorBadger wrote: So, money & political correctness beat competitiveness & fan interest.



Not what anyone's said. But the strongest conferences have been those where the members have shared the most in common. You can check it out.
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